Paul Westphal Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 It's all good. This is amazing, ROger. The outstanding music really sets it apart - especially from the other bad apple out there.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Thanks for kind words Anyway .. I changed the synchronization code, so it's handles better the cases, where it fails to render frames in time. It's allowed to lag behind and catch up later. It only happens with NTSC and with filled drawing mode. NTSC does not involve that much overhead code, but there is some, and the thing is, there is basically no reserve in the filled mode. Scanlines are fine even under NTSC, because on those empty lines DMA does not steal cycles. So .. it works .. but the section with slower frames is kinda long, and the lag can get as bad as 20 frames .. so I wanna try to implement frame-skip feature .. when the lag will be more then 1 full frame, I will skip a frame in decoder .. that will require to have some information about frame length in the data, but I still have lot of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Hm .. did the frame skip .. and it looks worse than I expected .. it's right out ugly. I tried decreasing image height .. it's simple to do .. but I only manage to 'make it' at like 80 lines .. the PAL version has 96. That is 6/5 ratio, but I should be able to manage more that that ! The decoding code does not depend on the video system at all .. music playing, frame sync should be the same as the PAL version, it's not called every 6th frame. So the only overhead is some DMA and extra DLI a VBI calls, which do only small things. Any idea where the cycles go ? Edit: did some altirra profiling .. DMA seems to be main culprit .. the decoding routine DMA penalty increases from 24% to 34% from PAL to NTSC .. have to try some more stuff .. Edited June 14, 2017 by R0ger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Noticed another quite important thing .. which kinda makes sense .. NTSC has (obviously) quite different pixel aspect ratio .. so showing the animation in the original resolution is simply wrong. So I guess I will go this way: 1) render the video in lower resolution - 256x80 (compared to 256x96) 2) have completely different standalone NTSC version - no need to detect & switch, and it will be easier to fix the colors in the credits picture. 3) framerate wil be the same, 12.5 fps avg, music will be the same, slowed down by 6/5 rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'm not sure anyone's ever bothered to make seperate versions of a pic, game, demo or anything based on the aspect ratio difference. Also, given many people use monitors with vertical height adjustment, it can be a moot point. PAL just as NTSC only normally generates 240 scanlines worth of display data so when the adjustment is possible we just show about 4 lines worth of the black at top/bottom and the 240 scanlines inbetween which would make the 2 systems near identical - although doing that with PAL can be annoying as it produces very visible blank portions between the scanlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 Well I do it because I can't handle the harsh DMA on NTSC .. but it sounds better if I say it's because of correct aspect ratio, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timofonic Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 This isn't trolling, I just want to understand. I see the C64 versions feature the voice... What about this Atari 5200 version? And this Atari 8bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I prefer it follow the video as it does.. the colored dots version doesn't do it for me..... digitized sound might be a possibility but hey sometone could also do the movieplayer version of this for the Atari as well.... using your fav... IDE/ pbi device for playback.... so many options so many! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 That C64 REU version isn't on stock hardware. REU has extra Ram and a blitter which can practically free up the CPU to do samples and other things. Probably same story on the 5200. The 5200 Ultimate SD card has a high speed onboard RISC CPU which can run user code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The CoCo version with English lyrics. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1sgl615FlGnbG9GNjVncVhEZWc/view 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) picks the one version with the scarey music for the 8 bit... against the REU 64/blitter upgrade.. nope not being a troll at all are we pushing for a VBXE or other upgrade version? Edited June 15, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 There are several C64 versions. I don't think all of them are legit though. One youtube video looks like way too high of resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) picks the one version with the scarey music for the 8 bit... against the REU 64/blitter upgrade.. nope not being a troll at all are we pushing for a VBXE or other upgrade version? The music on that Atari version is pretty hard to take. But then listen to the Vectrex version... which otherwise is pretty good. *edit* Not sure I'd call that a blitter. It's just a simple DMA memory copy. Edited June 15, 2017 by JamesD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Why not just throwing the original video through this ? Or patch the video player for hires and the b/w version? And get some clean music? Some Hardware allows to play music through the audio line... On a stock Atari , this could work, playing a cassette Playing the Video from a cartridge and audio from cassette is still stock HW usage. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just be patient and wait for the upcoming Atari versions. These things take time (in my case since 2013, but it'll show off Atari's strengths ) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurritoBeans Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Hah, awesome. That's a really nice rendition of the whole demo anyways - I like it. I remember seeing the little demo (demo of a demo? I dunno what to call it...) you linked me of this a while back - this version seems a bit more in-sync and generally nicer - great job on getting it out! Edited June 15, 2017 by BurritoBeans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrohaze Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thanks for doing this, looks awesome! As soon as I get a chance, I am loading this onto a AtariMax Flash Cart to see it in action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) So here is the NTSC version. The resolution is lowered to 256x80, same 12.5FPS, colors in the credits picture are shifted, music is the same, interpolated to 50Hz. Also the final picture is the same, so it does not fit the last frame of the video the way it does on PAL version .. but it took like week to make that picture, I'm not redrawing it, sorry It still looks decent. Also thanks to Nezgar for testing ! BadApple.1.1.NTSC.zip Edited June 15, 2017 by R0ger 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Why not just throwing the original video through this ? Or patch the video player for hires and the b/w version? And get some clean music? Some Hardware allows to play music through the audio line... On a stock Atari , this could work, playing a cassette Playing the Video from a cartridge and audio from cassette is still stock HW usage. I think the graphics quality is a little better in this case by treating it as B&W, but the sound could certainly be done the same. The CoCo version was a special case instead of a simple translator like the other videos the guy has done, and it worked out well. It avoids the dithering you get when you work with video. I think the only machines that can play video well are the Atari, CoCo, and Plus/4. The Plus/4 requires a parallel SD or CF interface that hasn't been marketed yet, and I'm also not sure about the quality of the sampled sound on it. Edited June 15, 2017 by JamesD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMontezuma Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 PS: If you can't get the song out of your head, sorry about that. Trust me, I know the feeling .. Thank's man... Is there any way to get rid of the song from my head? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thank's man... Is there any way to get rid of the song from my head? Yeah, and I found a version to listen to... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 So here is the NTSC version. The resolution is lowered to 256x80, same 12.5FPS, colors in the credits picture are shifted, music is the same, interpolated to 50Hz. Also the final picture is the same, so it does not fit the last frame of the video the way it does on PAL version .. but it took like week to make that picture, I'm not redrawing it, sorry It still looks decent. Also thanks to Nezgar for testing ! Any tips on using this with a SIDE (or similar CF cart)? Or is that even possible? - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thank's man... Is there any way to get rid of the song from my head? It's impossible to get rid of a song in your head .. you can only replace it with different viral song .. for sake of this not changing into viral song contest, I am not including my choices 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timofonic Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 It's impossible to get rid of a song in your head .. you can only replace it with different viral song .. for sake of this not changing into viral song contest, I am not including my choices Do it! Any other with nice animation? It could be another inspiration for an A8 demo Another Bad Apple version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrohaze Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 So here is the NTSC version. The resolution is lowered to 256x80, same 12.5FPS, colors in the credits picture are shifted, music is the same, interpolated to 50Hz. Also the final picture is the same, so it does not fit the last frame of the video the way it does on PAL version .. but it took like week to make that picture, I'm not redrawing it, sorry It still looks decent. Also thanks to Nezgar for testing ! I flashed this to an AtariMax 8mbit cart, and fired it up on my NTSC 130xe. Worked great! Final picture looked awesome, so no complaints here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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