New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[Bill Loguidice]

 

If anyone can do it, why hasn't anyone else done it yet? This isn't a Raspberry Pi. It's custom modern AMD hardware. And the whole point of using an open source OS is that users will be able to do what they want. I thought the only reason people kept preferring locked down consoles to computers was price, but if this forum is anything to go by, maybe people are actually afraid of freedom.

 

People prefer "locked down consoles" for a lot of reasons. Sure, price of entry is low, but there's also minimal fuss, curated and optimized games and apps, and ongoing support, among many other factors like being targeted exclusively for use on a big TV rather than a monitor.

 

In terms of that "custom modern AMD hardware," I recommend skepticism. This is not the equivalent of a Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo spending billions of dollars on R&D. This is Atari going to AMD - like any company can - and requesting a few tweaks to an existing design. That's about as custom as it gets. I would also encourage skepticism of how much you really can do with this out of the box in terms of "freedom." It may very well allow you to do anything you want with it at any time, but it also may be locked down in some frustrating ways and require some clever hacking to really get in there. We just don't know at this point.

[JDTAY]

 

OK, I'll bite. What paradigm is exactly being shifted here? This is limited as both a streaming box and game machine, each of which we have either separate or in combination with far more content already than this will ever have, and at most times at a cheaper price and likely with far more power. And it remains to be seen how useful this will be as a computer.

 

Um, running open Linux, if true, means this thing will *launch* with "far more content" than any proprietary consoles or streaming boxes "will ever have". >_>

 

Basically, this isn't meant to be a computer, it's actually the world's first major non-proprietary console.

[S1500]

So they are going to try to sell it for near the price of a PS4 or Xbox, which are more powerful than than what's proposed? That's going to be a hard sell.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Um, running open Linux, if true, means this thing will *launch* with "far more content" than any proprietary consoles or streaming boxes "will ever have". >_>

 

Basically, this isn't meant to be a computer, it's actually the world's first major non-proprietary console.

 

It's all relative, though, isn't it? If you're missing dozens of the big name apps and games, having more "content" is not necessarily a selling point for most people, is it?

[Flojomojo]

Um, running open Linux, if true, means this thing will *launch* with "far more content" than any proprietary consoles or streaming boxes "will ever have". >_>

 

Basically, this isn't meant to be a computer, it's actually the world's first major non-proprietary console.

 

 

Hm. I don't want to contribute to your funky feelings, but I would like to impart a sanity check:

 

1. I don't think this sounds like the "world's first" anything. It's completely derivative and it's the opposite of "major." It wouldn't need crowdfunding if it were "major."

 

2. Linux is great, but anyone with the minimal skill required to set up and maintain a Linux computer can do this themselves. Seriously, it's click-to-run for most tasks nowadays, easier in many ways than Windows or Mac OS. These people do not have to wait for Atari to access what you call *far more content* -- check out https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/for just one easy to use repository. YOU don't have to wait for Atari, unless you trust them to deliver the "curated, optimized apps and games" that Bill references a few posts up.

 

3. Consoles are just little, locked-down, single-purpose computers. There's nothing particularly special about them, apart from the software ecosystem created around them.

 

Something else occurred to me recently ... you know how popular things like the NES get cloned, scalped, hacked, imitated and copied? And how unpopular things like RETRO Magazine can't even be given away, and no one bothers to pirate it?

 

NOT THAT I'M SAYING ANYONE SHOULD DO THIS, but it seems to me that Atari has given away enough proprietary-type information that someone could easily register a spoof AtariBox with the frankly bargain-basement IndieGoGo system with their logos and press material. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS, but such actions would harm the credibility of both the Atari company and the AtariBox project, and force their lawyers and public relations staff to waste resources on damage control. SERIOUSLY DON'T DO THIS, THERE IS ENOUGH DICKAGE ON THE INTERNET ALREADY.

 

If Atari approached this with a bit more professionalism, this would be less of a risk, but that's a danger of attempting a "major" product launch on a 2nd-string crowdfunding platform. I think that's part of what bugs me about this. They've failen so very far. Also, speaker hat.

[Bill Loguidice]

So they are going to try to sell it for near the price of a PS4 or Xbox, which are more powerful* than than what's proposed? That's going to be a hard sell.

 

 

*and less expensive

 

Again, though, that's not necessarily a major issue if there's a compelling reason to get this. The Nintendo Switch has less power than the PS4 and Xbox One and costs more (in most cases), but it has a unique value proposition. Potentially being an "open" console doesn't mean much in my opinion in terms of a compelling reason to get the Ataribox. It's not like it's difficult for anyone to create apps and games for any of the major existing platforms. I truly believe they'll need a better hook than that if they want to appeal to more than Atari die-hards and Linux enthusiasts. Again, though, if that's the business plan and they can make a profit from that - and they likely can - then no reason to aim higher, particularly with how competitive aiming higher is right now.

[Flojomojo]

Um, running open Linux, if true, means this thing will *launch* with "far more content" than any proprietary consoles or streaming boxes "will ever have". >_>

 

Android runs on Linux, and people piss on the awesome Play Store for being loaded with crap. I suggest to you that the best games on the AtariBox won't hold a candle to the quality and quantity of the offerings in there. Atari is too late to the game, they have no software to offer other than warmed-over Flashback stuff, not to mention asking $300 for the privilege of being tethered to a television.

 

It's all relative, though, isn't it? If you're missing dozens of the big name apps and games, having more "content" is not necessarily a selling point for most people, is it?

 

Ouya runs on Android (which runs on Linux) and has a bunch of big names (seriously, their lineup is great -- and it's all made for the big screen and a controller), and we all know how that turned out. It's a big joke, but unlike Atari, they have the excuse that at least they were first.

 

P.S. Here's a link to my full-throated defense of Ouya. I served with Ouya. I knew Ouya. Ouya was a friend of mine. Ataribox, you're no Ouya.

[vcoleiro1]

If the Ataribox were a locked down standard console, it would almost certainly fail. There is not much chance they could launch something that could compete with the big boys.

 

If they matched them for specs, it would be very expensive (much more expensive than the subsidised consoles from the big three)-> Fail

 

If they matched or bettered them for price, it would be underpowered and unlikely to attract devs -> Fail (think Ouya)

 

The option they have chosen is to attract a niche, that niche is the people that want a Linux game console, And people that want an open system to do anything.

Check out what the Linux crowd are saying about it, They see it as a shining light and hope for a Linux Gaming console release.

 

They really didn't have many options here, they have gone with the only option that had any remote chance of success. Still long odds of success, but the best option as far as odds IMO

 

Here's a story about it on OMGUbuntu, as you can see, the Linux crowd are hopefull for it: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/09/atari-ataribox-runs-linux?utm_source=slideshow

Edited September 28, 2017 by vcoleiro1

[JDTAY]

Android may be based on Linux, but it is not Linux, unless you jailbreak it, which most wireless carriers won't let you do.

[+frankodragon]

Sure, as long as your Atari 800 is blue and shaped like a trucker hat.

[+TwentySixHundred]

Personally i can't wait and really excited however i hope they do the name proud. It's nice to come on AA and see open minded opinions rather then everywhere else on the internet with ignorant peanuts writing it off before release. If they do this correctly it has potential to become a must have system, considering using a Linux based OS and openly stated user freedom.

 

I do indeed have some doubts but staying positive and must admit it's the first time in 20years im truly excited over a console. Kinda feels like the days of a lad reading magazines for information about upcoming systems (when it was exciting). I love Nintendo and Sega too but never got this feeling over the switch.

 

Fingers crossed

[alexkeaton]

1. I do not expect the amount that they are asking for (what ever that may be) to cover the total hardware costs of the Atari Box. I expect them to do this as a gauging interest kind of thing for the Atari Box to have a bigger player with allot more money to come in and help fund the project the rest of the way from behind the scenes. To me it is obvious that have a bigger partner already with the Atari Life stuff and the movie promotion in blade runner.

 

Thank you very much for this comment.

This is a huge great speculation that i didnt had in mind.

 

I also think that there is more in the background and more that it is visual for us to see.

What i cant stop thinking is:

With a price of 250 Dollar IT HAS TO BE a power System with a lot of potential into it that could compete to a certain point with the major players on the market.

Otherwise it has absolutely no chance to compete. That is why i think that it has to be something more than just a Box with old Games and a few Apps and using it for Twitter and stuff.

I even saw an XBOX ONE S Bundle with FIFA 18 for 199 Euro (about 230 USD).

The PS4 is also selling with 2 controllers and the Game for 250 Euros. Keep in mind that FIFA just came out today and it is the most highly asked Game of the Year. Its like NBA2K and Madden combined in popularity here in Europe.

So, with 250 Dollars for the Ataribox there has to be more inside what we will hopefully get.

I think that the CEO Fred Chesnais is a smart Guy and knows what he is doing.

 

THE most important thing is a System Seller. My observations of my 30 Year Game Career is that there has to be a one or a few special Game(s) which makes the difference between success and losing.

Without Tetris i dont think that the Gameboy would have been that succesful.

Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot and Resident Evil were the System Sellers for the Playstation.

Sonic for Sega .

 

We are all laughing but if Atari would bring ET in a new updated Game with up to date Graphics and major changings in Gameplay it would sell by itself on the market. Remember when they brought Han Solo and Chewbacca n the Star Wars Trailer and he said "Chewie, We are home". Well, a marketing with something like that and the Gamers would go nuts and buy that thing right off the shelf.

 

What i am speculating also is that the Ataribox is maybe able to play PS1 Games and Dreamcast Games when it is hacked.

Of course this is not legal by the hackers but why i am mentioning this is that the Playstation 1 had a boost of Sales of their Console when it got hacked with the mod chip and people could copy all the Games for it.

Edited September 28, 2017 by alexkeaton

[leech]

Android runs on Linux, and people piss on the awesome Play Store for being loaded with crap. I suggest to you that the best games on the AtariBox won't hold a candle to the quality and quantity of the offerings in there. Atari is too late to the game, they have no software to offer other than warmed-over Flashback stuff, not to mention asking $300 for the privilege of being tethered to a television.

 

 

 

Ouya runs on Android (which runs on Linux) and has a bunch of big names (seriously, their lineup is great -- and it's all made for the big screen and a controller), and we all know how that turned out. It's a big joke, but unlike Atari, they have the excuse that at least they were first.

 

P.S. Here's a link to my full-throated defense of Ouya. I served with Ouya. I knew Ouya. Ouya was a friend of mine. Ataribox, you're no Ouya.

 

Android may use the Linux kernel, but that is lretty much where that similarity to a "pc-based" system running Linux ends. Steam has hit 3000 plus games that support Linux, if I recall correctly. Though to be fair there are at least a few hundred I would consider crap Anime dating simulators. Plus emulation for every system under the sun. I am looking forward to a 300 dollar system we can run Stella on..

[JBerel]

I'm continually aghast at people's willingness to get fishooked into believing something is more than it is. There is a clear track record here by the person and people involved that makes it pretty predictable what they are trying to pass off. This is and will be an off the shelf Chinese mini PC or PC on a stick that are readily available now for under $200. They are not customizing hardware, or diddly squat. They're just, yet again throwing buzz words and con job terms around to appeal to people wanting to believe some fantasy. Is calling any part of this "custom", "advanced", "super fast", "industry leading", "optimal" or any other B.S. term illegal or fraudulent? No, because that means nothing since those terms can apply to anything depending on context, timing, what have you.

 

Based on the one low res, undoctored image they were forced to release in response to criticism of their images to date, you can clearly see their "prototype" was 3D printed. They are one 8 hour Makerbot print job beyond a 3D model Than can be whipped up in 10 minutes. They keep selling the design appeal with all the catch phrases to rope in supporters. They still have nothing new to offer, and both their continued tactics, and people's willingness to buy into them is becoming increasingly irritating. We need fewer thought leaders and community builders and more critical thinkers.

[Bill Loguidice]

These comments are just confirming my suggestion that this is targeted to a certain type of Atari die-hard and Linux fanatics. If that's where Atari can turn a profit with this, great (and at the price point they're targeting, there's likely a decent profit margin). To expand beyond that, it obviously needs something more. I guess we'll see if there's more to it when the crowd funding campaign happens.

 

And again, in comparing this to other current systems out there like the Xbox One S (with game(s) for around $200 or so), it's also important to consider what a bundle like that will cost in Spring 2018, which is the earliest the Ataribox would actually be available (and likely later, as most of these crowd-funding projects slip). It's quite likely that Ataribox will be on the (virtual) shelf next to sub-$200 Xbox One and PS4 bundles, and likely even more (and new generation) streaming boxes from major companies. You always have to ask yourself why someone would buy something. It's extraordinarily unlikely there will be anything on the Ataribox that you can't get elsewhere, with the reverse certainly not true.

[Bill Loguidice]

We are all laughing but if Atari would bring ET in a new updated Game with up to date Graphics and major changings in Gameplay it would sell by itself on the market. Remember when they brought Han Solo and Chewbacca n the Star Wars Trailer and he said "Chewie, We are home". Well, a marketing with something like that and the Gamers would go nuts and buy that thing right off the shelf.

 

What i am speculating also is that the Ataribox is maybe able to play PS1 Games and Dreamcast Games when it is hacked.

Of course this is not legal by the hackers but why i am mentioning this is that the Playstation 1 had a boost of Sales of their Console when it got hacked with the mod chip and people could copy all the Games for it.

 

You win.

[zzip]

2. Linux is great, but anyone with the minimal skill required to set up and maintain a Linux computer can do this themselves. Seriously, it's click-to-run for most tasks nowadays, easier in many ways than Windows or Mac OS. These people do not have to wait for Atari to access what you call *far more content* -- check out https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/for just one easy to use repository. YOU don't have to wait for Atari, unless you trust them to deliver the "curated, optimized apps and games" that Bill references a few posts up.

I could easily set this up myself, and I have, -but- I'm more interested if they can deliver a quiet system with a decent amount of power at a decent price. Pi's kinda fill that niche, but they are weak and not being Intel based is a disadvantage in that they can't run things like Wine or VMs at a decent speed

[zzip]

Android may use the Linux kernel, but that is lretty much where that similarity to a "pc-based" system running Linux ends. Steam has hit 3000 plus games that support Linux, if I recall correctly. Though to be fair there are at least a few hundred I would consider crap Anime dating simulators. Plus emulation for every system under the sun. I am looking forward to a 300 dollar system we can run Stella on..

Linux makes a great emulation platform. Now if we could just get a Jaguar emulator that isn't half broken, the Ataribox could emulate the entire Atari library

[JDTAY]

I'm continually aghast at people's willingness to get fishooked into believing something is more than it is. There is a clear track record here by the person and people involved that makes it pretty predictable what they are trying to pass off. This is and will be an off the shelf Chinese mini PC or PC on a stick that are readily available now for under $200.

Ahem, AMD's CEO apparently didn't get your memo.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2017/09/26/amd-scores-another-custom-chip-design-win-with-the-upcoming-ataribox-game-console/

[Keatah]

It's become soooo stupid that they even had people fawning over the render of the cardboard box that doesn't exist which is supposed to contain the plastic box that barely exists. We need a good Darwin Award for the fans of this one.

 

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19702945_326043897833533_2843886787022356856_o.jpg?oh=e6a92762da900618ba267881528eef9a&oe=5A4196AC

 

Heh. That's the internet for ya'. Speed up your brain and creating fake things inside it!

 

[S1500]

Sometimes I'm reminded of The Brady Bunch movie where they do the talent show(this is set in the 1990s) and they do this weird 1970s variety show number. This could very well be Atari waking up in a changed video game world.

[JBerel]

Ahem, AMD's CEO apparently didn't get your memo.https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2017/09/26/amd-scores-another-custom-chip-design-win-with-the-upcoming-ataribox-game-console/

I'll give you a rain check for an apology the minute they ship anything to end users that has a proc custom designed for the Ataribox. So far, all anyone can confirm is Atari claimed to be using an AMD processor, and of course AMD comfirms their involvement as a supplier, as they would to encourage any potential sales order. With all the complete B.S. floated in the market these days, any reasonable person must assume "custom processor", "custom design", etc. means exactly that and no more. At some point in time, something was custom made for someone somewhere. The term is synonymous with "fresh baked daily" in the frozen foods section. It's not like Microsoft or Sony designing hardware to spec. These guys are going crowd funding. Count on another $3 USB stick or knock off $40 smart watch with a logo and a 1000% markup with a continually delayed shipment date.

[Swami]

 

macOS is so confusing on what it is and wants to be... It uses the Darwin kernel which is based on a Mach / BSD hybrid kernel with a BSD userland...even huge Mac fans don't get this until I point it out to them. But thwn Apple had to ruin this great idea by not keeping it veryup to date and hiding the Unix bits under a crappy closed source UI.

 

At least Linux is pretty much open fron top to bottom, though I wonder if the Ataribox has its own interface if it will be open source or not.

I don't know. Is Red Hat Linux still open, if it still exists?

[Good_Times]

Is Linux the one with the security blanket?

[leech]

I don't know. Is Red Hat Linux still open, if it still exists?

Yes, Red Hat very much still exists, It is still open source, though they use a subscription service for their various Enterprise editions. CentOS Linux is the Open Source recompile of the code, but is 100% backward compatible with RHEL.

 

Is Linux the one with the security blanket?

Guess it depends on what you mean by security blanket. Security vulnerabilities happen with any software, but the open source nature of most of the software stack that Linux uses makes it so anyone can see the code and see what it's supposed to do, so in theory should be a lot more secure, not to mention when bugs are found, they're fixed quicker.