New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[Flojomojo]

It's entitled/elitist AF (esp "people of Walmart") but Andy's defense of zombAtari is worse. 

[digdugnate]

I think the two camps are made for each other, lol

[mrentropy]

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

It'd be even better if the Haiku OS will work on it.

 

Sometimes I wonder what a 'new' Atari computer would be like if it were made by one of the 'old' Atari companies. I suspect it would, like Apple, be Intel based, but with their own customized operating system. BeOS/Haiku seems like a good choice for that. Seeing a modernized GEM would be interesting, though.

 

 

[leech]

52 minutes ago, mrentropy said:

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

It'd be even better if the Haiku OS will work on it.

 

Sometimes I wonder what a 'new' Atari computer would be like if it were made by one of the 'old' Atari companies. I suspect it would, like Apple, be Intel based, but with their own customized operating system. BeOS/Haiku seems like a good choice for that. Seeing a modernized GEM would be interesting, though.

 

 

I've thought a lot about this.  The real question is, if Commodore and Atari had kept going, would PPC have still been the way forward and would we now have Amigas/STs running Power9 processors?  I'm not sure how much further advanced the operating systems would have been (I mean they've both been developed, just at a much slower pace than if Atari and Commodore had stuck around).  If they'd merged instead of disappeared, would we have a Workbench with a TOS compatibility layer?  Or would we have MiNT with Amiga emulation?  Makes one wonder if they had stayed around, moved onto PPC if we'd have Apple stay on the platform.  IBM/Motorola could  have been making lots more money, that's for sure.

[PlaysWithWolves]

1 hour ago, mrentropy said:

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

 

Most of the disdain is directed toward  the scummy, sue-happy IP holders who should've been made to at least productive a real prototype before getting free money.

 

I think many here like the case design.  Or at least the initial design which got changed when reality started creeping in.

 

Stupid reality.

[+Nathan Strum]

1 hour ago, mrentropy said:

Sometimes I wonder what a 'new' Atari computer would be like if it were made by one of the 'old' Atari companies. I suspect it would, like Apple, be Intel based, but with their own customized operating system. BeOS/Haiku seems like a good choice for that. Seeing a modernized GEM would be interesting, though.

Which "old" Atari? Pre-Warner? Pre-Tramiel? Tramiel-era?

 

In all likelihood, if Atari had survived as a computer company, they'd be a Windows PC manufacturer. Nothing else would make financial sense. Had they kept on a proprietary path, they would've gone the way of Amiga.

 

Oh wait... they did.

[digdugnate]

 

 

 

What stands out to me is the reply from Atari at the bottom:

 

"We are still several months off from retail launch in March - with December on the way and backer fulfillment beginning then, that is when our "Early Access" period begins, where users will begin working alongside us in finetuning the Atari VCS experiment. And, never fear, lots will continue to be worked on during this time as well to prepare for March launch."

 

Talk about a bunch of weasel words in regards to launch and product.  So... the backers shelled out money for the privilege of being the QA testers in December for the actual launch in March?  I was under the impression that the launch was in December.. for the backers  

 

I think it's pretty optimistic of them to think that they'll see even 10% of their consoles sold in March in comparison to the number of units supposedly pre-ordered by backers.  (I edited this because it's vague- nowhere have they actually said it, but more of a personal opinion on my part)

[Flojomojo]

A curse of the successful kickstarter is when your product goes to retail and regular customers are served before your backers get what they pre-paid for. 

 

Of course, with the expert hands guiding this amazing project, there's no way that could happen here. 

 

Freedom!

[PlaysWithWolves]

Interesting little $400 build in that thread. Granted, it's DIY and not everyone's about that:

 

 

[+TwentySixHundred]

11 hours ago, mrentropy said:

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

It'd be even better if the Haiku OS will work on it.

 

Sometimes I wonder what a 'new' Atari computer would be like if it were made by one of the 'old' Atari companies. I suspect it would, like Apple, be Intel based, but with their own customized operating system. BeOS/Haiku seems like a good choice for that. Seeing a modernized GEM would be interesting, though.

 

 

I think alot of us were excited when the system was first announced, until like mentioned before reality sinks in... When sitting down and looking at the hardware on offer and comparing prices to what is already on the shelf, the questions begin. You only have to look at the team behind the project to quickly realize it's a cash grab from the former companies success. They are relying on the name company name Atari to sell this product to those who have nostalgia for the system and younger generations that had heard about the company and are intrigued. Would you really back this project if it was Joe Blow's down the street that nobody had ever heard about?

 

Problem is the most of us that have fond memories of Atari aren't as gullible as they think and our days of being fanboys have dwindled away. There is also the issue when stepping into the market against the big three. They say they're not trying to compete but like it or lump it they have no choice, the big three are already in that market. Those companies basically sell their systems at a loss to give the consumer the most powerful system they can.

 

Ataribox is just an overpriced backyard project that anyone can make at home.

[+frankodragon]

Back in the golden days of video gaming, companies would make a working prototype of a console and testing it before selling it customers, not asking people out of the blue to give money blindly for some invisible console.  "Atari" is like the shady car salesman trying to sell cars without motors.

[Tommy Tallarico]

3 hours ago, frankodragon said:

Back in the golden days of video gaming, companies would make a working prototype of a console and testing it before selling it customers, not asking people out of the blue to give money blindly for some invisible console.  "Atari" is like the shady car salesman trying to sell cars without motors.

Not just the "golden days".  Some of us still do this as it's the right and sensible thing to do when creating new hardware.  We had multiple "real" prototype Amico machines and controllers along with 22 games working at E3 (June) this year and our launch was still 15 months away at that point (10/10 2020).  We continue to focus test and refine everything as our big INTERNAL full-time, full benefits, on-staff team of experienced mechanical, firmware, production, design, OS and hardware engineers find ways to make things better.  For a real video game system retail launch to happen a company needs to be in manufacturing and mass production at least 6 or 7 months before launch (ours is the end of March for an October release). 

Next Monday we'll be releasing a new trailer showing 17 games.

So not just the golden days... but modern days as well.  


 

[mrentropy]

19 hours ago, Nathan Strum said:

Which "old" Atari? Pre-Warner? Pre-Tramiel? Tramiel-era?

 

In all likelihood, if Atari had survived as a computer company, they'd be a Windows PC manufacturer. Nothing else would make financial sense. Had they kept on a proprietary path, they would've gone the way of Amiga.

 

Oh wait... they did.

As a thought exercise, I think it would be interesting to think about what kind of things all three would have done, because I think they all would have taken different routes.

 

Tramiel-era would, I think, have gone Wintel. Bushnell/Warner Atari, with Grass Valley, may have been a lot different. Possibly more current Apple-like, except earlier.

 

Unfortunately, unless we all become Sliders and find the right alternate dimension, we'll never know.

 

10 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

quickly realize it's a cash grab from the former companies success.

Yes. That's the kind of things businesses do. Because they want to make money. Which, despite all the rhetoric, is a company's core value. I don't really fault them for that.

 

10 hours ago, TwentySixHundred said:

Would you really back this project if it was Joe Blow's down the street that nobody had ever heard about?

This particular project? Probably not. However, if someone had plans to create a new 1450XLD using old schematics, designs, plans, etc.... I would be tempted. Of course, it would depend on how much it cost and how much I was willing to lose. Sure, it's a gamble, but there's a whole city in the US that depends on people gambling their money away.

 

19 hours ago, PlaysWithWolves said:

the scummy, sue-happy IP holders

Can you name an Atari era that didn't have a lot of law suits? Again, that's just kind of the way businesses work.

 

Anyway, I'm not really defending the current Atari; I do think they should have had a publicly displayed prototype by now. After all, it's just a basic boring AMD/Intel computer in a nifty case running Linux. It shouldn't be that difficult. On the other hand, it would be nice to be optimistic and think they'll do something that may raise the awareness of the Atari name. I get tired of reading articles about retro-gaming and retro-computers that only ever mention the NES and C64.

 

[Clint Thompson]

22 hours ago, mrentropy said:

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

It'd be even better if the Haiku OS will work on it.

 

Sometimes I wonder what a 'new' Atari computer would be like if it were made by one of the 'old' Atari companies. I suspect it would, like Apple, be Intel based, but with their own customized operating system. BeOS/Haiku seems like a good choice for that. Seeing a modernized GEM would be interesting, though.

 

 

Atari used to be all about "Power without the Price!" but now it's just "Price without the Power."

[racerx]

2 hours ago, mrentropy said:

Can you name an Atari era that didn't have a lot of law suits? Again, that's just kind of the way businesses work.

The obvious difference, of course, is that those previous Atari incarnations were active companies of programmers, artists, and engineers generally defending product they were currently (or recently) producing, and not a small group of vampires attempting to squeeze more blood from forty year old turnips.

Edited August 13, 2019 by racerx

[mrentropy]

1 hour ago, racerx said:

The obvious difference, of course, is that those previous Atari incarnations were active companies of programmers, artists, and engineers generally defending product they were currently (or recently) producing, and not a small group of vampires attempting to squeeze more blood from forty year old turnips.

I understand this is all nebulous until the first new Atari VCS (possibly) rolls off the assembly line, but if they are, indeed, working on such a thing would they not have hired at least one programmer, artist, and engineer?

 

For me, I think it's at least interesting that after years of doing not much besides publishing titles and leasing out IP, they suddenly decide to do something slightly different (for them). If they manage it, I'm all for it. If they don't, it's no different than the past few years have been.

I wonder if there's anything that would make people happy.

 

[FroggoGamer]

On a related subject, how feasible would an 8 bit or 16 bit console be today designed with the latest technology? We don't have the limitations of the 70s and 80s so there could be less slowdown/ flickering, and could be designed in a way to make programming far easier for people who want to program but lack the skills. 

 

I get more excited about new games for older consoles (and spend more money) than I do on mobile phone devices or the latest consoles.  Would that have been a better option than a system that does what everyone else is already doing?

[Flojomojo]

1 hour ago, racerx said:

The obvious difference, of course, is that those previous Atari incarnations were active companies of programmers, artists, and engineers generally defending product they were currently (or recently) producing, and not a small group of vampires attempting to squeeze more blood from forty year old turnips.

12 minutes ago, mrentropy said:

I understand this is all nebulous until the first new Atari VCS (possibly) rolls off the assembly line, but if they are, indeed, working on such a thing would they not have hired at least one programmer, artist, and engineer?

 

For me, I think it's at least interesting that after years of doing not much besides publishing titles and leasing out IP, they suddenly decide to do something slightly different (for them). If they manage it, I'm all for it. If they don't, it's no different than the past few years have been.

I wonder if there's anything that would make people happy.

Are you new here? Go back a few hundred pages and read all about their great hope, Rob Wyatt, and his goofy non-updates to the IndieGogo funders, or to his company web page. Or the many ways that their "for illustration only" demonstrations were not fully truthful. For example: the first look at Tempest 4000 was played on a hidden, offscreen PC and they haven't shown it since. 

 

If you find these shenanigans "interesting," you're playing right into their game. They want people to think they're the heirs to the old legacy, that they're trying something bold and different, and that if you only wait a little bit longer, good things are right around the corner. 

 

It's not that we're unable to be happy. Atari Flashback in hardware and software form is delightful. Tempest 4000 is worth your time and attention. It's just that this "Atari VCS" project is a terrible concept, poorly communicated, and gracelessly executed. It's using other peoples' money, it's late, they can't articulate a good reason for it to exist, and no one who put in any good faith money can get a refund. All of this is in plain sight but if you need a refresher, this thread is a good place to bone up on the facts. 

 

 

Are you a backer, @mrentropy?

[racerx]

There are two kinds of new accounts:

 

1. The "Hey, ET isn't actually that bad" type

 

2. The "Hey, Chenais & Co aren't much different than the old Atari(s), this could be interesting, nothing makes you guys happy" type

 

One of these is groan-worthy but probably legitimate, the other, frankly, is immediately suspect.

[TACODON]

I joined to admit I was stupid to give them money and to find out more information on the scam.

[digdugnate]

ive seen a lot of those ET isnt THAT bad posts lately... ?

[Flojomojo]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:48 PM, Flojomojo said:

I thought this was somewhat mysterious.

 

 

It would have been more compelling had they named the name. Why wouldn't they? Is it because the contracts aren't done, or because they're blowing smoke?

This is from over a year ago. If anyone thinks the noisemakers in the Facebook group are out of line for asking about partners and games, this is why.

 

Also, remember that the early birdies were promised special perks. 

On 5/30/2018 at 3:06 PM, Flojomojo said:

I think "the fans" who have not handed over money to AtariBox have significantly more leverage than those who "pre-ordered."

 

Oh, but they said this!

 

 

These are all paraphrased or directly quoted from stupid things that "Atari VCS" PR people have said. 

On 6/11/2018 at 4:18 PM, Flojomojo said:

 

There's enough gambling on this crowdfunding thing already ... but I will enjoy watching other people rant and rave when we see things like ...

 

"we are delaying shipment of the first prototype to make it EVEN BETTER"

"more announcements about games and the project's progress are still to come"

"the VCS team has TONS of business meetings with 3rd party content partners to start, continue, and complete deals."

"remember, all the noisy youtube videos and click-bait headlines are not credible places to get your Atari VCS info"

"this is only the beginning"

 

I don't need a crystal ball (or borrow anyone else's) to predict this, because they've already said all this.

 

And let's never forget "the bomb-diggety one that will be super valuable one day."

On 6/16/2018 at 4:34 AM, PlaysWithWolves said:

Remember the Postal museum's warning signs of fraud that Flojomojo posted?

Emphasis, mine:

 

 

 

"You got the bomb-diggety [Collector's Edition] that will be super-valuable one day!"

 

 

They were also promising more video from their board "as soon as we have all the clips shot and all the right permissions in place." Not only have these failed to appear, they've redacted what little press video (Ackerman's CNET video) was already released. 

On 6/19/2018 at 12:12 PM, Flojomojo said:

Yup, that doesn't sound like much fun at all. Fortunately, PS4 and Xbone (and 50 other things) have apps you can use instead. The statistical probability of a "mom" using the 2019 Atari VCS for streaming video has got to be vanishingly small, hard to measure, not unlike the rightmost portion of this chart.

 

 

 

That's my read as well. It seems reasonable to expect some more information from them soon. When they say, "we have only just begun," I hear "the check is in the mail." I wonder when their honeymoon period with the backers is up? Of course, those of us watching at home were screaming not to get into that van in the first place, but ...

 

 

 

[Raticon]

On 8/12/2019 at 5:38 PM, mrentropy said:

Y'all can hate on it if you want, but I like the case design and would like one. Even if it is under powered. If it ever comes out.

It'd be even better if the Haiku OS will work on it.

 

I'm positive that most of us is or was intrigued by the console design, the joystick and the general prospect of a new Atari console at first.

It is new Atari that pushed us from prospective fans to dedicated hater brigadiers with their nonsense.

 

Maybe the VCS will be alright in the end. Maybe it will be a piece of shit. Both options will probably result in some other company buying Atari, which is probably what they want. In the first case Chesnais & co will be rich. The other case will see Atari go bankrupt and someone buying the ruins.

[Flojomojo]

1 hour ago, Raticon said:

Maybe the VCS will be alright in the end. Maybe it will be a piece of shit. Both options will probably result in some other company buying Atari, which is probably what they want. In the first case Chesnais & co will be rich. The other case will see Atari go bankrupt and someone buying the ruins.

 

Even if it's "alright in the end," it's still going to be a joke. They're not putting enough resources into it to make it a hit, but that also means it won't be enough to sink the company. They're aiming low and they're using other peoples' money. "Atari" deserves worse than what they're going to get from this. 

 

Like it or not, they're back in the black, at least for now, even if half of their income is from suing people using what really should be public domain assets like Asteroids and Breakout. atari-cp20190731-results-fy2019-ven.pdf

[Shaggy the Atarian]

9 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

 

Even if it's "alright in the end," it's still going to be a joke. They're not putting enough resources into it to make it a hit, but that also means it won't be enough to sink the company. They're aiming low and they're using other peoples' money. "Atari" deserves worse than what they're going to get from this. 

That really is the rub of it. Once you have your Atari 2600 looking SteamLinux machine, then what? So far it looks like the store is going to be very barebones, with little to no promise of it going anywhere after that. You'll probably find some 2600 ROMs on there, maybe some arcade ones too, but if you've spent $300-$400 on this, you probably already can play 2600 games on a bunch of other things you own. 

 

At the moment, the launch library of the Jaguar is more interesting than the VCS. It had two original games (Cybermorph and Trevor McFur). For the VCS, we've got Atari Vault and Tempest 4000. More rehashing, woohoo. Might as well include Super Breakout as the pack-in game and make the shape of the VCS like the 5200. 

 

There's the promise of the sandbox mode, but if you're just going to use it for Steam and games through there, you probably have a computer that is far more capable to play the games you'd download there. And you'll need to buy and connect an external hard-drive since you've got a whopping 32GB of storage on there.

 

New versions of Atari classics though? Nothing that they've bothered to tell us about yet. They supposedly have new versions of Ninja Golf, Asteroids and Fatal Run in the works, but they haven't confirmed those for the VCS. They haven't even said that they'll bring Rollercoaster Tycoon, one of the last modern IPs they've got in their catalog that still makes money, to the VCS. It's telling to me that they wouldn't have been touting a flagship IP on the VCS from the get-go(well, you'd have to have solid confidence in your product to be able to do that). Ok, we have Tempest 4000, but apart from that already being available on PS4/PC, it's a niche shooter that only a small handful of fans are into. It's not exactly a system seller like T2k or T3k were for their platforms. 

 

OR if someone is really wanting a nostalgia console, they could wait a little longer and put their money into the woodgrain version of the Intellivision Amico. No, it won't have the Atari logo slapped on it, but it will have unique and exclusive Atari games created for it that INTV has licensed and is working on. Sadly, Atari hasn't provided any evidence that they've got quality control for that stuff - look up the recent reboots of Night Driver, Asteroids, and Haunted House...they've all been disasters. So by that, I have much more confidence that INTV will treat the IP properly and give us great games (verdict still out on all of that of course, they could screw it up, but it's hard to outscrew up Atari SA at this point).