Flojomojo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 @x=usr(1536) That seems quite plausible to me. I think they would have had similar revenue results by putting their logo on a nice white box PC, or partnering with a low end manufacturer like Acer. It seems unlikely they'll draw enough users to make a digital store of their own worthwhile to build. Xsolla and Uberstrategist and Antstream and Arzt and Wyatt get paid no matter what, and maybe there will be some tax benefit down the road when this folds. Their social media minion seems excited to have something else to write bout, but it's the same old thing. Translation: listen, you idiots, we just have the one game, OK? But you can buy a hard drive, install Linux, and bring your own game. Or your own goddamn computer, what difference does it make. Translation: Gaah! How many times will I have to say this. "Stay tuned for more announcements" is the same thing as "We have no current plans for Half-Life 3 to be a system exclusive." Do I have to spell it out? You have to make your own games. Translation: Please don't leave! I was just kidding about no other games. There will be lots of games! Stay tuned! That's like a game. The waiting game! Translation: "Early Access" means minimum viable product, pushed out quickly to fulfill expectations of "backers." Lighting and rumble features are for illustration purposes only. Hey, check out the subtle, stealthy changes they've made to the campaign page. Here's what it says now. Note the past tense, as if they've already built it, if you believe them for this kind of thing. Here's what the old version looked like. My absolute favorite is when they go on the offense a little bit. Can't wait to see @Agillig banned and deleted for boxing them in like that, nicely done. 4 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said: I'm increasingly of the opinion that the $3M raised on Indiegogo was used not for development of the VCS, but rather to get Atari SA through some medium-term company crisis by the skin of their teeth. Speculation, I'll admit, but the idea that they were borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for some time seems reasonable. I used to do sales at a company where the finances were in shambles, but they did an amazing job at convincing the public (and those of us in sales) that things were going gangbusters when they weren't. I was surprised at how long they were able to stay afloat by doing so; it doesn't solve the problem, but it does slow the drain circling down a bit in the hopes of that "hail mary" sale. Atari's behavior is similar in some ways to what I experienced there - putting on a good facade with the CEO jetting around to trade shows while both customers and manufacturers are calling, demanding to know what is going on with the thousands of dollars they spent (100% up-front) for their product that still hadn't shipped. Turned out that the finances were in shambles, so the management would wait to pay for the product at the absolute last possible moment, despite giving customers the impression that when they paid for it, the payment was sent. I think that the IGG thing was the hail mary save, but what will really be telling is how many sales they'll rack up in April 2020 and what the return ratio will be. If the board was a last minute rush, I'm pretty sure they'll experience a high failure rate. So place your bets - assuming the VCS actually ships - How long until the first "Red Fuji of Death" pops up on the internet? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I've always maintained that these kind of rubbish crowdfunded projects rise and fall on their ability to produce a stupid plastic enclosure. Many of them give up and use some off the shelf box with off the shelf boards, if they even make it that far. If Atari can't show video of their plastic cases flying off a Chinese assembly line by now, they have zero chance of meeting their latest ship date. Just remember the greatest BS alarm on the front end of these clusterf%@ks, "We're not crowdfunding for the money, we're just gauging community interest." That's a sure fire indicator of a total scam in the making. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmadgames Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) I remain somewhat skeptical and don't necessarily think this thing will remotely be a success, but I'm willing to guess the folks at Atari are having a good laugh over this thread today. The second the release dropped, there were a bunch of posts on here that said, "look they couldn't even get Atari Valult to run on it"--that got shut down. Then a bunch of "there's no prototype" posts came along and they dropped the image of the board. Again, not defending Atari or the product and certainly not the communication, but I just found it funny how the tables were turned a little today. Edited September 30, 2019 by bmadgames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodmot Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Shaggy the Atarian said: If the board was a last minute rush, I'm pretty sure they'll experience a high failure rate. So place your bets - assuming the VCS actually ships - How long until the first "Red Fuji of Death" pops up on the internet? Actually I was wondering about this too-- what's their testing/QA procedure for this thing? They need to make sure these consoles don't set on fire when people plug them in/start doing heavy gaming on them (or what would constitute as "heavy gaming" on an AMD Ryzen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVgaTv Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, bmadgames said: I remain somewhat skeptical and don't necessarily think this thing will remotely be a success, but I'm willing to guess the folks at Atari are having a good laugh over this thread today. The second the release dropped, there were a bunch of posts on here that said, "look they couldn't even get Atari Valult to run on it"--that got shut down. Then a bunch of "there's no prototype" posts came along and they dropped the image of the board. Again, not defending Atari or the product and certainly not the communication, but I just found it funny how the tables were turned a little today. Their initial PR statement said nothing about this being in addition to the Atari Vault, which led to confusion. And yes, they have a picture of a circuit board that is painted blue and has the Atari logo on it. Give me a few hours and a Radio Shack and I can have the exact same image. They still haven't shown a working prototype, which is inexcusable 2 months from the supposed ship date. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, JBerel said: I've always maintained that these kind of rubbish crowdfunded projects rise and fall on their ability to produce a stupid plastic enclosure. Many of them give up and use some off the shelf box with off the shelf boards, if they even make it that far. That reminds me, does anyone know what happened with "Dreamcade Replay: One Console to Rule Them All?" I thought I heard there was some flap with Atari over the case design. Looks like it came out, judging from the comments from backers. Those that fail to learn from history are something something. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmadgames Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TheVgaTv said: Their initial PR statement said nothing about this being in addition to the Atari Vault, which led to confusion. And yes, they have a picture of a circuit board that is painted blue and has the Atari logo on it. Give me a few hours and a Radio Shack and I can have the exact same image. They still haven't shown a working prototype, which is inexcusable 2 months from the supposed ship date. I never thought the board was going to be difficult to produce given that they are using an off the shelf architecture... I still don't understand why people are thinking it's not going to release. They can pump something out--the quality of the consoles and the availability of games are where it will struggle. Edited September 30, 2019 by bmadgames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lodmot said: Actually I was wondering about this too-- what's their testing/QA procedure for this thing? They need to make sure these consoles don't set on fire when people plug them in/start doing heavy gaming on them (or what would constitute as "heavy gaming" on an AMD Ryzen). They said up front they would have government certifications in a bunch of countries. I don't know if this is paper or via practical testing, but I'd assume the former. The "backers" will be the practical testers. They also have some warranty terms here. If it breaks within one year, you can have another one. If the replacement breaks, sucks to be you. Quote 10. PRODUCT WARRANTY Atari covers your Atari VCS console, included Classic Joystick or Modern controller, against accidents and mechanical or electrical breakdowns for up to one (1) year. For covered controller and console, you get up to one replacement of a Classic Joystick or one replacement of a Modern Controller, and one replacement of the VCS system box – no deductible required. 11. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY We do not guarantee, represent or warrant that your Use of our Website will be timely, secure, uninterrupted, or error-free. We do not warrant any results that may be obtained from the use of the Website will be accurate or reliable. You agree that from time to time we may disable the Website for indefinite periods of time at our discretion, without notice to you. We shall not be liable to you or to any third-party for any modification, suspension, or discontinuance of the Website. You expressly agree that your use of, or inability to use, the Website is at your sole risk. The Website and all products delivered to you through the Website are (except as expressly stated by us) provided “as is” and “as available” for your use, without any representations, warranties or conditions of any kind, either expressed or implied, including all implied warranties or conditions of merchantability, merchantable quality, fitness for a particular purpose, durability, title, and non-infringement. In no case shall we, our directors, officers, employees, affiliates, agents, contractors, interns, suppliers, service providers or licensors be liable for any injury, loss, claim, or any direct, indirect, incidental, punitive, special, or consequential damages of any kind, including, without limitation, lost profits, lost revenue, lost savings, loss of data, replacement costs, or any similar damages, whether based in contract, tort (including negligence), strict liability or otherwise, arising from your use of any of the Website or any products, or for any other claim related in any way to your use of the Website or any product, including, but not limited to, any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the Use of the Website or any product made available via the Website, even if advised of their possibility. Because some states or jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or the limitation of liability for consequential or incidental damages, in such states or jurisdictions, our liability shall be limited to the maximum extent permitted by law. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurradonXylles Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lodmot said: Actually I was wondering about this too-- what's their testing/QA procedure for this thing? They need to make sure these consoles don't set on fire when people plug them in/start doing heavy gaming on them (or what would constitute as "heavy gaming" on an AMD Ryzen). Hate to say it, Lod, but if we're only seeing the mainboards now, and they plan on actually sticking to their December 2019 early bird release, you're one of the QA testers for these things. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVgaTv Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, bmadgames said: I never thought the board was going to be difficult to produce given that they are using an off the shelf architecture... I still don't understand why people are thinking it's not going to release. They can pump something out--the quality of the consoles and the availability of games are where it will struggle. People are skeptical because they've already delayed it multiple times, their PR is a train wreck, they don't have any original games, no developers have signed on to develop for it, and still have no working prototype 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: That reminds me, does anyone know what happened with "Dreamcade Replay: One Console to Rule Them All?" I thought I heard there was some flap with Atari over the case design. Looks like it came out, judging from the comments from backers. Those that fail to learn from history are something something. Yeah the Dreamcade Replay was supposed to be this..... Then Atari, in their usual unfounded fashion threatened them over something they had no standing on and it eventually released as this... Basically an AcePC with a Celeron proc and a pretty crappy front end and collection of emulators. Anybody with a clue could, and probably has done a better setup with Launchbox or even Retropi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, AtariNerd said: Anyone able to peep at the version of the Ryzen chip they're using on that board, just to see what kind of performance users might get out of it? I enlarged it 300dpi and while it still looks very fuzzy, the top line almost says version 7. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agillig Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: @x=usr(1536) That seems quite plausible to me. I think they would have had similar revenue results by putting their logo on a nice white box PC, or partnering with a low end manufacturer like Acer. It seems unlikely they'll draw enough users to make a digital store of their own worthwhile to build. Xsolla and Uberstrategist and Antstream and Arzt and Wyatt get paid no matter what, and maybe there will be some tax benefit down the road when this folds. Their social media minion seems excited to have something else to write bout, but it's the same old thing. Translation: listen, you idiots, we just have the one game, OK? But you can buy a hard drive, install Linux, and bring your own game. Or your own goddamn computer, what difference does it make. Translation: Gaah! How many times will I have to say this. "Stay tuned for more announcements" is the same thing as "We have no current plans for Half-Life 3 to be a system exclusive." Do I have to spell it out? You have to make your own games. Translation: Please don't leave! I was just kidding about no other games. There will be lots of games! Stay tuned! That's like a game. The waiting game! Translation: "Early Access" means minimum viable product, pushed out quickly to fulfill expectations of "backers." Lighting and rumble features are for illustration purposes only. Hey, check out the subtle, stealthy changes they've made to the campaign page. Here's what it says now. Note the past tense, as if they've already built it, if you believe them for this kind of thing. Here's what the old version looked like. My absolute favorite is when they go on the offense a little bit. Can't wait to see @Agillig banned and deleted for boxing them in like that, nicely done. Thanks. The social media intern didn't put much thought into that one. I wonder what Antstream thinks of their partner saying how unnecessary their service is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, bmadgames said: I remain somewhat skeptical and don't necessarily think this thing will remotely be a success, but I'm willing to guess the folks at Atari are having a good laugh over this thread today. The second the release dropped, there were a bunch of posts on here that said, "look they couldn't even get Atari Valult to run on it"--that got shut down. Then a bunch of "there's no prototype" posts came along and they dropped the image of the board. Again, not defending Atari or the product and certainly not the communication, but I just found it funny how the tables were turned a little today. I dunno, I think they were panicking after The Register article dropped and figured that they had better do something to prevent losing support from one of the few partners they actually have on board with it. You can be sure that someone involved (at AMD or PowerA) were probably blasting them with angry phone calls after that. If anything, I imagine they're wiping sweat from their brow as opposed to having a laugh (on the other hand, some VCShills think that this offers total proof that this will be a yuge success, so they are LOLing and high fiving in their threads, not realizing just how underwhelming it all is). 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheVgaTv said: People are skeptical because they've already delayed it multiple times, their PR is a train wreck, they don't have any original games, no developers have signed on to develop for it, and still have no working prototype Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Flojomojo said: Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? They probably would have done better to go with that plan from 2015 to rebrand a bunch of existing tablets & phablets with their logo, test out some UI shells there and see how well that would have done, then decide if a Super Flashback would have been worth it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurradonXylles Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Flojomojo said: Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? Sane people would answer no, hell even eccentric, majorly cynical assholes like myself would answer no, but greed and having a reputation staked on a name tends to cloud one's judgement. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodmot Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? I think so. They should have never made it an indiegogo campaign to begin with, because clearly they don't know how a crowdfunding platform is usually supposed to work. It would've made more sense to just set up a "pre-order" page right on atarivcs.com and call it a day. By trying to get the "community involved", all they did was impose on themselves the responsibility of having to give us regular updates (which they clearly never wanted to do). Edited September 30, 2019 by Lodmot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBerel Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? That's a non-sequitur. They did this to generate attention, and they succeeded to a degree, but it wasn't the attention they wanted and it served to illustration what kind of outfit they are. They always needed the money, so if it was to steal the cash and bolt, or just get pre-funded to make an unintended cluster of a product, same dif. Funding it themselves and quietly making a desirable product was never in the cards for these goobers. They couldn't even OEM brand a bunch of cheap knock-off Chinese tablets back in 2014, the last time they "were back!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVgaTv Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: Seeking opinions: Would the brand holder of "Atari" been better off had they just worked up their mini-PC in silence, with self-funding, without pretending to involve anyone else? Sure, they got an interest-free loan, some publicity (of dubious value), and a sense of how many they should make. But was it worth the hassle? The whole point of branding it with Atari was to get the Atari fanbase involved. If they had just done a min-PC without the branding nobody would have cared and it wouldn't have generated much of anything with the IGG campaign. And if they actually had competent people in charge this could have been a success, instead of the train wreck that has alienated the vast majority of people who would have considered supporting this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverMuch Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Make no mistake: this thread was the very genesis of their announcement. Granted, the announcement can be broken down to "Hey! We're gonna have an app available on our unconsole! And you gotta subscribe to it.", but hey... The pressure that was put on them was reaching a fever pitch, and to save face, this is what they came up with. An app. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodmot Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheVgaTv said: The whole point of branding it with Atari was to get the Atari fanbase involved. If they had just done a min-PC without the branding nobody would have cared and it wouldn't have generated much of anything with the IGG campaign. And if they actually had competent people in charge this could have been a success, instead of the train wreck that has alienated the vast majority of people who would have considered supporting this project. Imagine if in an alternate timeline, Tommy Tallarico was actually the founder of the Atari VCS, and he led the project to success? o w o 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I would want to wait to see how this timeline resolves. Last I checked, the Amico was still almost a year away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVgaTv Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: I would want to wait to see how this timeline resolves. Last I checked, the Amico was still almost a year away. and it already has more to show than the AtariVCS which supposedly launches in two months 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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