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New Atari Console that Ataribox?


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3 hours ago, Agillig said:

I really don't have a dog in this particular fight.  I respect what you're trying to do, buuuuut...when I think "hardcore", Mario Kart doesn't come anywhere close.  You don't get much more mainstream than Mario.

 

My wife is one of those 3 billion casuals, and she has no interest, or knowledge of, Intellivision, past or future. One of the reasons mobile games do well is the portability.   Also because they are dirt cheap, or usually free if you avoid the microtransactions.  


Hi,

Let me extend my thought a little more...

I'm not saying Mario Kart is hardcore.  I'm just saying the latest versions are not as simple as casual as they once were... especially if you look on a worldwide basis.  And older people (say 55+) don't consider it casual at all as they care nothing about the Mario character.  They are more content with Candy Crush, Angry Birds, Tetris & Solitaire. Most reviews of Mario Kart 8 Switch say the easy mode is too easy and the harder modes are too hard.  The balancing was off  (and I totally agree).  And although Mario Kart Tour on mobile was one of Nintendo's biggest "downloads" (not including Pokemon Go which Nintendo does not own a major stake in) the revenue is not anywhere close to other games in the category.  Meaning... people downloaded it and didn't want it enough to keep paying for it.

The Switch is "portable" as well... yet has 50 million users.  Only 1/3 the numbers that the DS had.  Grandmas and non-gamers purchased a Wii (102 million units sold) but those same non-gaming casual folks did not purchase a Switch.  Switch numbers are flattening out and the Switch Lite isn't doing the numbers Nintendo was hoping for.  People in places like China, India, the Middle East and even most of South America are not Nintendo players... yet China & India are almost 40% of the entire population on the planet.  Meaning...  "casuals" on a worldwide basis care nothing about Mario Kart.

What I was trying to get across in my original post is that a game like Mario Kart which was once a "casual" experience in the 90's may seem "casual" to a hardcore gamers still.. but these days Nintendo has turned it into a subscription based cash grab on mobile (which casuals have rejected) or an unbalanced more complex experience on Switch (which most casuals didn't purchase).

Hope this helps to clarify my opinion. 

 

Thanks.


 

Edited by Tommy Tallarico
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42 minutes ago, Osgeld said:

problem with casual / mobile is you are never going to sell them a system, ask nintendo, they happened to do it once over a decade ago

 

grampa got to golf timmy got monkey ball, it was a huge success for a couple years everyone moved on and nintendo made 2 tablets of varying success ( switch being up for debate) keeping in mind consoles sold != console success

 

how many whee's got bought, a fuckton, how many games were sold past wee sports in comparison to its big boy pants competition? and left in a junk drawer at grandma's house along with her 720p plasma that no one cared about 1 year after it became cheap 


The Wii proved 13 years ago that casual/non-gamers will absolutely purchase a home console if it is priced correctly and is easy to play and understand.... AND... they can play with friends.  Just because "mobile" is the preferred casual platform now doesn't mean those same folks won't purchase another home console.  The biggest difference and the thing most people may overlook is that the Wii was a family & friends experience (to the non-gamers and casuals who purchased one).  Mobile is NOT that.  Mobile/casual games are nothing more than solitary experiences these days.  One screen... and your face buried in it.  Aside from Jackbox (which is NOT a family friendly game) there are very little couch co-op experiences on mobile.  There is not a simple system that exists on the market that is affordable and focuses on playing with friends.  People can try to argue that the Switch is that... but it's not... and the numbers worldwide prove it.   There is a reason why board game revenue has gone up over 40% each year for the past 5 years!  And it surpassed "video games" as the number one category on Kickstarter.  Because those type of family/friends experiences don't exist in mobile or home consoles anymore.  How much would it cost "middle America" or someone in India or China to play a 4 player couch co-op game on the Switch?  

You are correct that a very large number of Wii buyers never purchased a game for it.  But its not the machines fault that Nintendo didn't focus on casuals.  They admit that casuals were not their market.  As soon as the Wii came out and exploded... they pretty much went right back to their wheelhouse.  Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Pikman, Metroid Prime (a game I worked on with Miyamoto for 5 years).  That's why it took Nintendo so long to even look and focus on mobile.  It's not where their revenue is generated.  They know their hardcore fanbase better than any other hardware company out there.  Millennials who grew up on the NES/SNES and Pokemon.  It is very well documented that folks at Nintendo US and Nintendo Europe were screaming at Nintendo Japan to please make and push more "casual" games on the Wii.  Bowling, Shuffleboard, Card/dice/board games, word games, etc.  Nintendo created the Wii because they were getting their asses kicked by Sony & Microsoft and needed to pivot.  They didn't create it because they were trying to capture a casual audience.  That was a happy surprise which they readily admit in many interviews.  But they left a lot of "money on the table" in doing so.  But again... they don't need casuals to survive.  They are a massive powerhouse without casual... and they know it.  $40 billion company... they know what they're doing when it comes to their audience.

3rd party publishers really dropped the ball on Wii.  Again... not the platforms fault that most of the 3rd party stuff was absolute shovelware.  The reality was that all the big publishers had their "A" teams and "B" teams creating content for the PS & XBOX.  Wii was an afterthought as everyone thought it was going to tank... and even when it didn't... the "A" teams weren't interested in making casual games.  No sense in taking a team of 300 who just came off the lastest Call of Duty to put them on a Shuffleboard game for the Wii (although how awesome would THAT have been!)  Haha!  :)

In closing... I think that just because no one has made a casual platform in 13 years doesn't mean that people don't want it.  It means no one has done it.  Wii U was NOT that system.  Nintendo constantly brags (and should be commended) for never wanting to look back or do the same thing twice.  We believe we will bring back casuals, non-gamers AND hardcores to play in a room together again.... as the only real casual games that exist over the past decade are solitary experiences.  Time will tell.  Give me a year.  :)

 

Edited by Tommy Tallarico
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4 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

I'm guessing the Switch is basically the same as the WiiU one. I would agree that in some regards it is harder. However, I would argue that earlier versions were not so and would be easy for anyone to play.

 

That reminds me I need to play my GBA one. It has been awhile and I personally think it is one of the best versions that no one talks about.

 

I think there is a middle ground with the split screen stuff. 3D or not. Talk to Data East and do a remake of Caveman Games. That was always a favorite in my family. :D


Yes.  I agree.  Earlier versions were much more casual and different.  But not so much anymore.  That was the point I was trying to make.  And yeah... the DS version and/or GBA was MUCH more casual and the best versions IMO (although with SNES).  And even though the mobile version is "easy"... they took it to a monthly subscription based model.  Yay... just what consumers want.  :D

Caveman Games was awesome!  I'll look into it.

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13 minutes ago, Tommy Tallarico said:



In closing... I think that just because no one has made a casual platform in 13 years doesn't mean that people don't want it.  It means no one has done it.  Wii U was NOT that system.  Nintendo constantly brags (and should be commended) for never wanting to look back or do the same thing twice.  We believe we will bring back casuals, non-gamers AND hardcores to play in a room together again.... as the only real casual games that exist over the past decade are solitary experiences.  Time will tell.  Give me a year.  :)

 

 

I admire your enthusiasm!  I just hope you also have a good solo experience planned.   I don't care too much about friends and family...When playing video games I mean,  of course.

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Just now, GoldLeader said:

 

I admire your enthusiasm!  I just hope you also have a good solo experience planned.   I don't care too much about friends and family...When playing video games I mean,  of course.


Heck yeah!  For sure.  Every game has a single player and couch co-op mode.  Required for every game we're doing.  It's been a lot of fun updating and turning traditional single player games into couch co-op as well.  Considering this is the Atari thread... our 8 player Missile Command is really fun!  You can play in Versus or Co-Op.  And we even have a 2 player mode where someone is on the top and someone on the bottom and your firing rockets at each other while defending your own.  But of course... a full single player mode as well.

:)

 

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2 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:


Yes.  I agree.  Earlier versions were much more casual and different.  But not so much anymore.  That was the point I was trying to make.  And yeah... the DS version and/or GBA was MUCH more casual and the best versions IMO (although with SNES).

I agree with what you said about the Wii but not about the 'earlier' versions of Mario Kart. I know a lot of so-called hardcore gamers that despise recent releases because they're too casual and only like the SNES and GBA ones because they're more skill-based (and feature no blue shell). I personnaly disliked the GBA one because I found it too difficult. I admit I'm not very good at racing games, and I really think the mode 7 graphics make them harder because everything is flat, so I can't see the side of the road very well.
I really consider myself a casual gamer in the realm of racing games, and I prefer racers like Burnout 2 and Chase HQ that make me feel heroic. A coop Chase HQ (split-screen or not) would be great by the way - I hate competition anyway.

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Look I promised not to talk anything negative about the Amico as long as it didn't take people's money up front and hadn't shipped yet, and there are plenty of less than attractive observations I could make. If it keeps bleeding into this thread, all bets are off.

 

Now, back to the current raging dumpster fire.......and on with Taco Tuesday.

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1 hour ago, JBerel said:

Look I promised not to talk anything negative about the Amico as long as it didn't take people's money up front and hadn't shipped yet, and there are plenty of less than attractive observations I could make. If it keeps bleeding into this thread, all bets are off.

 

Now, back to the current raging dumpster fire.......and on with Taco Tuesday.

Hey Amigo you got some tacos for me?

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11 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

 

Just curious if you have played the latest Mario Kart on Switch.  You think that is a casual game experience?  You don't think that is too hardcore for a mainstream audience?  It is anything but mainstream.  200 million hardcore gamers in the world yet 3 billion people play casual/mobile.  I can tell you that not many of them are paying for that subscription based Mario Kart on mobile.

 

 

So do what Mario Kart 64 did right and avoid what Mario Kart 8 does wrong.  :D

 

 

I know Amico has to handle higher resolution than the old TVs the N64 dealt with, but is it not powerful enough for split-screen?  Even if it meant simpler graphics?  Or is it where it could handle split-screen, but the quality would be below your standard?

 

Also, why would you say the controller that is probably second-only to a steering wheel wouldn't work for racing?  It has a touch screen, bumper buttons, and you actually steer it like a wheel in this video:

 

 

 

It's your system and your dream.  I'm just curious and appreciate your taking time to answer all these posts.

 

On 10/27/2019 at 10:28 AM, Tommy Tallarico said:

I don't believe the controls would be easy though (besides, imagine trying to explain to grandma that she's the character in the top right corner).  :)

 

Grandpa says what?  ?  

I think we're both 51, right (1/10/68 here)?  If I had a kid at 21 and my kid had a kid at 21 that'd mean I could have a 7-9 year-old grandchild now. 

Yikes!  

 

 

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11 hours ago, Tommy Tallarico said:

What I was trying to get across in my original post is that a game like Mario Kart which was once a "casual" experience in the 90's may seem "casual" to a hardcore gamers still.. but these days Nintendo has turned it into a subscription based cash grab on mobile (which casuals have rejected) or an unbalanced more complex experience on Switch (which most casuals didn't purchase).

 

Many casual gamers aren't going to buy a console, no matter how "casual friendly" you make it. When they were buying Wii's by the bucket load, mobile gaming barely existed. Now there are tons for free or nearly free games that suit their needs and work on devices they already own, or they're still enjoying their Wii and see no reason to replace it.

 

I don't think you're giving grandma enough credit when it comes to video games. Today's grandparents are our parents, who had video games in the house starting in their 20's and 30's and even if they didn't play games with us, at least saw enough of us playing to understand how video games work. Heck, even after it was just them in the house, my parents bought a PS3 and played Little Big Planet together and my dad got one of those fancy steering wheels for playing Gran Turismo. My parents may not be typical, but they're probably closer to reality than the hypothetical grandma of your examples.

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I agree on Tommy's point regarding casual gaming, that simple, fun games and couch co-op are an untapped market. 

One of the things I'm most looking forward to is that the Amico is targeted at people who are not heavy into gaming. I'd love to play video games with my wife, or when we have a big group of friends over. But a lot of the stuff I play is just too complex and fiddly to make that work well with people who are not avid gamers.

I think one of the things people forget about 'casual' (I prefer 'accessible') gaming is that many of us die hards would love to share the hobby with family and friends who just don't have the interest/motor skills/patience to learn how to play something as complex as your average, online multiplayer game. We'll buy these systems too... just to play with others (as I did the Wii, which ended up a disappointment). Dual Analog controllers with 15 buttons are intimidating as hell to someone who hasn't grown up using them. Simple controls, fun, intuitive games etc. are definitely a market if the Amico can nail the launch, advertising and support it needs.

I'm hoping it can.

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Given that Mario Kart 8 is the biggest seller for the Switch, and it is part of regular tournaments in the eSports scene, and is clearly one of the biggest money-makers (in terms of raw dollars not adjusted for inflation) in Nintendo history, I'd say the company doesn't particularly care whether you feel it is hardcore enough. (Source)

 

On the Amico, I try to go along with the crowd here that has picked it over the VCS as the cool kid thing to support rather than bash, but I remain highly skeptical. I don't understand how the console will be successful when it puts a bunch of requirements on game developers like "required couch co-op", all games $9.99 or less, no DLC, etc. While it isn't a fun part of modern gaming, much of this stuff is how real game devs pay their actual bills, and I don't see how a studio will be able to justify releasing on the Amico unless Tommy and company are offsetting things with direct funding. 

 

That said, I love ya Tommy, you've done so much for gaming, and I wish you the best of luck. I feel like at the end of the day you are putting yourself in a position you won't be able to follow through with if you want the console to be successful. 

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55 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

These are some of my favorites. Where was that posted? I don't see it on the "Atari" twitter feed. 

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/266480-new-atari-console-that-ataribox/page/45/?tab=comments#comment-3843369

 

It looks like a Facebook post. Yup... just checked and it's there.

 

Given the theme of Atari's social media posts I'd like to make the following Long Distance Dedication, Kasey*:

 

 

Now I think I'm going down to the well tonight
And I'm going to drink till I get my fill
And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
But I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
A little of the glory of, well time slips away
And leaves you with nothing mister but
Boring stories of glory days

 

*we all remember American Top 40 right?

 

Edited by JaqenHghar
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3 minutes ago, JaqenHghar said:

It looks like a Facebook post. Yup... just checked and it's there.

 

Given the theme of Atari's social media posts I'd like to make the following Long Distance Dedication, Kasey*:

 

 

*we all remember American Top 40 right?

 

Works pretty well. I only had to change a few words to make it directly relevant. 

 

I had a friend was a big Atari player

Back in high school

He could throw that Pong ball by you

Make you look like a fool boy

Saw him the other night at this roadside bar

I was walking in, he was walking out

We went back inside sat down had a few drinks

But all he kept talking about was

Glory days, well, they'll pass you by

Glory days, in the wink of a young girl's eye

Glory days, glory days

Well there's a girl that lives up the block

Back in school she could turn all the boy's heads

Sometimes on a Friday I'll stop by

And have a few drinks after she put her kids to bed

Her and her husband Fred Chesnais well they split up

I guess it's two years gone by now

We just sit around talking about the old times,

She says when she feels like crying

She starts laughing thinking about

Glory days, well, they'll pass you by

Glory days, in the wink of a young girl's eye

Glory days, glory days

My old man worked twenty years on the line

And they let him go

Now everywhere he goes out looking for work

They just tell him that he's too old

I was nine years old and he was working at the

Sunnyvale Atari plant assembly line

Now he just sits on a stool down at the Facebook site

But I can tell what's on his mind

Glory days yeah goin back

Glory days aw he ain't never had

Glory days, glory days

Now I think I'm going down to the well tonight

And I'm going to drink till I get my fill

And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it

But I probably will

Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture

A little of the glory of, well time slips away

And leaves you with nothing mister but

Boring stories of glory days

Glory days, well, they'll pass you by

Glory days, in the wink of a young girl's eye

Glory days, glory days

Glory days, well, they'll pass you by

Glory days, in the wink of a young girl's eye

Glory days, glory days

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Only 3 more days until Boxaween day. Atari team should seriously consider scooping up all the heavily discounted halloween treats to ship the backers when they inevitably have to tell them the bad news. Why not use some of that money that does not belong to you to sugar coat your failure............ Allegedly

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