Flojomojo Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, PlaysWithWolves said: An AtariAge Magazine of this thread would be glorious. LOL I'd buy that, especially if it were backed with the best of the RetroVGS/Chameleon "discussion." 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, PlaysWithWolves said: An AtariAge Magazine of this thread would be glorious. Now, ummm...To be clear, do you mean an Atari Age Magazine about the VCS or an "Atari Age" Magazine" about the "VCS"? Oh Wait...I meant to say an '"Atari" Age Magazine"' about the "VCS" (There...That's better...Clear as mud...Just like their "Updates"... ) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, GoldLeader said: Now, ummm...To be clear, do you mean an Atari Age Magazine about the VCS or an "Atari Age" Magazine" about the "VCS"? Oh Wait...I meant to say an '"Atari" Age Magazine"' about the "VCS" (There...That's better...Clear as mud...Just like their "Updates"... ) something something something 'cancel culture' 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 My memory has become terrible and don't have the source with me, so I can't cite it, but one positive thing, if one could call it positive, but one thing I gleamed from a interview I read in a game magazine, is that there may be one small benefit of their ineptness and shenannies. At one time, they intended their classic controller to be proprietary and locked down to their console, but through their underhandedness with it's design, it was grabbed up while in the test process, where it was shown to work and set up as a basic USB design (or rather, now, we know they had no working control scheme of their own, to subvert it at the time), compatible with all regular devices that use that protocol, instead. So, when these go on fire-sale, one might be able to grab a stick and have it work on more suitable things. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCAT Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Perhaps He thought that people would be Thankful to have any news, so he released it on the Holiday. But unfortunately, until the system is shown booting up & actually doing something, it is still just a non-edible empty Taco shell. I mean you could technically smash up a taco shell & put it next to some salsa... Backers should be DEMANDING to see the system booting up & loading a game, no jump cuts, no weird angles, no electrical tape. At this point there is no "we have to keep trade secrets" or "we have not yet patented everything" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaqenHghar Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Zoyx said: Atari has made mistakes, a lot of them. They will make more. But there isn't a f'n conspiracy. I'm also not loyal. I am a realist who doesn't have much patience for conspiracy theorists. Just because it's all possible in competent hands doesn't mean we can assume Atari is competent. They've shown otherwise. And they either can't find or keep competent contractors to fill in the gaps in their expertise to help realize their ambitions in a timely manner or indeed even in anything remotely resembling a straight line from start to finish. (e.g. Either Wyatt is also incompetent and they didn't figure that out nor get rid of him for six months, or he is competent and they screwed him. And Fergal Mac before that clearly couldn't get the job done but they bet on him too.) And even if it were executed to spec there is no justification to believe this could be more successful than say Steambox. (I'd bet on Steam's library being a better market draw than Sandbox Mode.) What you are demonstrating in most of your posts is called optimism not realism. If you're going to be accusing others of not being objective at least try harder to be objective yourself... not about whether what Atari is doing is possible... we all agree it's possible... but whether it's realistic for their team and whether in the end it'll be worth it. These guys are clearly flying by the seat of their pants and it shows. Look at everything that's been "redesigned" since it was pulled for "last minute tweaks" something like a year ago. New case, new board, new CPU, new controller partner, architects come and gone... There's virtually nothing left of what allegedly was about to ship. If that much needed to change do you really believe they were as close to manufacturing then as they claimed? It's no conspiracy to say they've been covering up their incompetence with excuses and deflection. It's self evident. Have you never had to deal with an incompetent coworker or employee where they overstate how everything is fine, are vague about what they've actually managed to get done, a little too proud when they finally have some underwhelming tangible evidence of progress, and nothing is ever their fault? Atari's been following that textbook to a "T". You can choose to keep the faith in light of that but don't try to pretend you're being a realist or objective in dismissing the criticism. Now if all you're saying is that given enough time and money even an idiot will eventually get this nominally right, then we can agree. But based on what we've seen odds are it will ship as soon as they've achieved "barely adequate and underwhelming". 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, JaqenHghar said: Just because it's all possible in competent hands doesn't mean we can assume Atari is competent. They've shown otherwise. And they either can't find or keep competent contractors to fill in the gaps in their expertise to help realize their ambitions in a timely manner or indeed even in anything remotely resembling a straight line from start to finish. (e.g. Either Wyatt is also incompetent and they didn't figure that out nor get rid of him for six months, or he is competent and they screwed him. And Fergal Mac before that clearly couldn't get the job done but they bet on him too.) And even if it were executed to spec there is no justification to believe this could be more successful than say Steambox. (I'd bet on Steam's library being a better market draw than Sandbox Mode.) What you are demonstrating in most of your posts is called optimism not realism. If you're going to be accusing others of not being objective at least try harder to be objective yourself... not about whether what Atari is doing is possible... we all agree it's possible... but whether it's realistic for their team and whether in the end it'll be worth it. These guys are clearly flying by the seat of their pants and it shows. Look at everything that's been "redesigned" since it was pulled for "last minute tweaks" something like a year ago. New case, new board, new CPU, new controller partner, architects come and gone... There's virtually nothing left of what allegedly was about to ship. If that much needed to change do you really believe they were as close to manufacturing then as they claimed? It's no conspiracy to say they've been covering up their incompetence with excuses and deflection. It's self evident. Have you never had to deal with an incompetent coworker or employee where they overstate how everything is fine, are vague about what they've actually managed to get done, a little too proud when they finally have some underwhelming tangible evidence of progress, and nothing is ever their fault? Atari's been following that textbook to a "T". You can choose to keep the faith in light of that but don't try to pretend you're being a realist or objective in dismissing the criticism. Now if all you're saying is that given enough time and money even an idiot will eventually get this nominally right, then we can agree. But based on what we've seen odds are it will ship as soon as they've achieved "barely adequate and underwhelming". Such scandalous conspiracy to think they are inept!!! Sir you forgot to wear your tin foil hat today. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Hannig Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Zoyx said: Watch the hyperbole. Not as many CUs, but 1606G isn't dramatically slower. The R1000 line is a generation newer, and so notably faster than the V1000 line. V1605B:4Cores/8Threads+Vega8 R1606G:2Cores/4Threads+Vega3 https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/AMD-Ryzen-Embedded-R1000-Family-Positioning.jpg Edited November 30, 2019 by H.Hannig spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamus Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 /me sees there are five new pages in the Tacobox thread. Hmm, this must mean that the news Curt Vendel hinted at must have broken. Huzzah! /me sees five pages filled with arguing with an idiot. /me wanders off to make tacos. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, H.Hannig said: V1605B:4Cores/8Threads+Vega8 R1606G:2Cores/4Threads+Vega3 https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/AMD-Ryzen-Embedded-R1000-Family-Positioning.jpg Also, the base AtariVCS is specc'd to have a R1505G. Lower clock speed than the R1606G 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 So where is the info on the C&D that was supposed to happen this week past? "Inquiring Minds Want To Know!" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Shawn said: So where is the info on the C&D that was supposed to happen this week past? "Inquiring Minds Want To Know!" Guessing it didn't happen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I dunno, guys. If they can appropriate some "Exclusive" init setting files, limiting the resolution to 480i -30/ 576i - 25, low settings, on certain games, they just may bridge that wall of misplaced 80s/90s dreams, some brand adherents have been having. Ouch, I went there...ouch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, MrBeefy said: Guessing it didn't happen. The fact that they didn't clearly show the board this time and still couldn't show anything running on it is a little curious. Even the most inept engineers should be able to at least scrounge up something running on the board for the camera at this point. As little faith as I have in "Atari", I still expected them to provide more media in this update than that pitiful handful of photos. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCAT Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I have a salvaged mini speaker, old BT headset, a roll of Foil paper & a printer, I am tempted to make an Aluminum foil speaker Atari hat... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Paul Slocum said: As little faith as I have in "Atari", I still expected them to provide more media in this update than that pitiful handful of photos. They couldn't because "something something partners contracts NDAs vendors patents lawyers approval process blah blah blah ..." 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 In case anyone wants to put in the time... **I'm as tired as Hell right now and don't feel too much like reading PDFs written in lawyerspeak...** (Quick little refresher: Seems they're mad about the RetroN 77 and the Hyperkin joystick that looks like an old Atari joystick...There's lots of CX-40 knockoffs out there. I wonder if their plan is to sue them all?) (Last updated Nov. 6th, but it's something) https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14524473/atari-interactive-inc-v-hyperkin-inc/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Jack V Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 The keyword here is "Pre". https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/11/30/atari-vcs-final-stages-pre-production-new-images/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, JaqenHghar said: Just because it's all possible in competent hands doesn't mean we can assume Atari is competent. They've shown otherwise. <lots of good stuff snipped> Sounds plausible to me. How the "supporters" see it: 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCAT Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Just curious, I am on page 950 right now, what page are you guys on? I just want to know how many pages left until 1000 Edited November 30, 2019 by OCAT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankedThomas Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 23 hours ago, MrBeefy said: I'm sure they only showed the back because they didn't have any of the front wood, carbon, etc installed. I agree but in this case (no pun intended), I was referring to the innards - that is, assuming that was part of an assembly line and they were indeed in China all that time to oversee the production of these units, wouldn't they make sure they included at least a single photo of the inside with the board mounted and all? It'd sure help make it look more legitimate. But instead, we just saw the plastic case from a few angles. 20 hours ago, Zoyx said: If you want to know how games will run on the Atari VCS, it will be similar to this board. Benchmarks start at the 8:45 mark. The board alone cost $418 US. In addition to what @H.Hannig said, it's very hard to make a direct comparison here. There are lots of other factors at play, such as the motherboard design and size (size affects layout, which in turn affects a whole range if things such as potential interference from different components, power delivery, signal integrity, etc.), memory topology (which probably won't matter too much here but on AMD's 7nm Zen 2 chips, the preferred topology appears to be daisy chain), and even seemingly simple things like RAM frequency/quality and what the motherboard has been qualified with ( guarantee Atari won't have any QVLs for the VCS, so even though the RAM may be upgradeable, there's no guarantee your new RAM will work well, if at all). Heck, I'd be concerned about the length of the traces on the VCS PCB, just for starters. They're PROBABLY fine, but we don't actually know that for sure. That's another thing people are forgetting - it's one thing to be okay with it being a basic PC for cheap despite there being other options, but we don't know if the VCS will even be a good computer. There's a reason some computers and computer parts cost more than others (and I'm not counting "premium" brands like Apple). That, and I guarantee you that most of the people excited about their AtariLinuxBox don't even know what Linux is, let alone how to use them. They've probably never heard of M.2 SSDs either. And once you go down that rabbit hole, you may as well just go build your own PC. With enough sales and maybe some second-hand parts, you could probably build a decent little system for ~$US500-600, and it'll be way more powerful than the VCS. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, OCAT said: Just curious, I am on page 950 right now, what page are you guys on? I just want to know how many pages left until 1000 Well if you are on 950 it would stand to reason there would be 50 more pages... Even if these things got to the backers tomorrow there would be 50 more pages of talking about it. As it stands now we will have a whole month and probably a week or two if you are wanting it to hit 1000 before the backers get theirs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCAT Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 ^^^ (I was not sure if everyone had the same page count as I, I think guests see a different number of posts per page) I like how with the Coleco Chameleon no one was able to see the back of the console, but with the Ataribox, no one can see the Front of the console. It is little things like this that keep me going, that and feeding the squirrel family in the tree outside my window xD If Atari is indeed making a first run, that would indicate that the specs are now nailed in stone & cannot be changed, so where are the official full specs? Also, if Atari was indeed preparing to ramp up production, would there not be a purchase order leak? When Apple is getting ready to make a new device, there is usually a leak saying "Apple is buying 10 million camera modules from so&so) Or there is a sudden shortage of 128GB flash memory chips 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thanatos Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Went to Kohl's, look at all these choices! 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+D Train Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, thanatos said: Went to Kohl's, look at all these choices! such wondrous times are these! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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