godslabrat Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Companies in excellent financial shape habitually leave their invoices unpaid AND pay their CEO 30% of their total net worth. Got it. Is crowdfunding evens valid measure of demand? Seems like it would be a really good way to sell directly to a very small sliver of diehards (ie, suckers) who will buy anything with a certain logo... but that has no bearing on how popular the item will be outside the crowdfunding campaign. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, godslabrat said: Is crowdfunding evens valid measure of demand? Seems like it would be a really good way to sell directly to a very small sliver of diehards (ie, suckers) who will buy anything with a certain logo... but that has no bearing on how popular the item will be outside the crowdfunding campaign. I always argue it's not. If you can get 1,000 people to put in a decent amount of money into something, the "amount raised" figure will look extremely impressive, but it's still only 1,000 people. And even the amount raised (shown) is not reflective of what the product developers get after fees (and there are a lot of fees with a project done right). Crowdfunding is superficial at best and indicative, when successful, of a good start, a foundation. Post crowdfunding it's up to the creators to do something lasting with it, assuming that's even their goal. For some, of course, just getting the project funded and delivering to the backers is enough. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 At this point, the unhinged fans/investors are an even more entertaining spectacle than the VCS train wreck itself. The part where Dubs wonders if he's been shadow banned because so much of his content has been deleted is especially poignant. ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 33 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: I always argue it's not. If you can get 1,000 people to put in a decent amount of money into something, the "amount raised" figure will look extremely impressive, but it's still only 1,000 people. And even the amount raised (shown) is not reflective of what the product developers get after fees (and there are a lot of fees with a project done right). Crowdfunding is superficial at best and indicative, when successful, of a good start, a foundation. Post crowdfunding it's up to the creators to do something lasting with it, assuming that's even their goal. For some, of course, just getting the project funded and delivering to the backers is enough. Indeed. I realize crowdfunding can be applied in many ways, but it seems it was DESIGNED to be most effective to help produce large quantities of an item at once. It's when you try and translate that into an ongoing production model that things start to get hairy. I mean, it doesn't matter how successful your campaign was... there's still an absolutely excellent chance that the people who pledged were all the customers your product was ever going to have. We all talk about how the Ouya made it into Wal-Mart. No one talks about how many Ouyas actually SOLD at Wal-Mart. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just for curiosity, I did a search on the Walmart website for Ouya. The second page listed Vicks VapoRub as one of the results. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Historian Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, frankodragon said: Just for curiosity, I did a search on the Walmart website for Ouya. The second page listed Vicks VapoRub as one of the results. I mean that's what I say when I can finally breath through my nose again... Ooooohhhhyahhh 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVgaTv Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/15/2020 at 4:41 PM, Shaggy the Atarian said: In case anyone's intelligence hasn't been insulted today, then I've got the article for you. It sounds like it was written by a bot that was forced to read through hours of posts on the VCS fan page. The single most amazing line from that "article". I honestly can't tell if this is satire, or if I need to facepalm so hard I give myself a concussion "Atari’s new VCS will launch with 100+ classic games embedded in the Atari Vault and users will have access to thousands more titles via a partnership with Antstream Arcade. Personally, this alone makes the console worth the $389 pre-order price tag." 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavi Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 23 hours ago, frankodragon said: Possibly a shill. They certainly seem to have a very optimistic outlook on Atari and the Atari Box. In my personal opinion, Atari made a new division just for the Atari Box so if (when?) things went pear shaped like the Atari Gameband did Atari Corp's money and assets are sheltered from people angrily demanding refunds. Keep in mind both these projects were masterminded by Feargal Mac Conuladh. As to the parent company being in a good financial situation, that depends on how you look at it. It certainly is just a shell of its former self. There is basically no staff, and they build and produce nothing. All income is derived from licensing and lawsuits. It is hard to lose money from that, but equally obvious there is no potential for huge profits either. This is the main reason it is, and will likely remain, a penny stock company. As for crowdfunding showing demand; after a guy on kickstarter had almost 7K backers and raised 55K to help him 'make some potato salad'; I think they only thing we can take away form backers counts and contributions is there are some mighty odd people out there with apparently entirely too much money. I certainly would not gauge product demand from either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Crowdfunding is like the 'hashtag' of raising capital. Companies like Atari look at it as a low-risk way to gauge interest, but at the end of the day, it's mostly a shiny facade that is forgotten about as quickly as it arrives. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Looks to me like decent companies might use crowdfunding for this or that,...But companies like Atari use it for preorders, ...Of something they haven't even produced yet... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, GoldLeader said: Looks to me like decent companies might use crowdfunding for this or that,...But companies like Atari use it for preorders, ...Of something they haven't even produced yet... We also have a major problem, particularly in the realm of hardware, of companies completely misrepresenting how close the product is to completion. Risking $300 for a box that's fully designed and ready to be pumped out of a Chinese factory is one proposition. Risking $300 for a system with no OS, firmware, and arguably not even a finished hardware design is quite another. At the very least, potential backers have the right to know exactly what category their purchase falls into BEFORE they make their pledge. If you want to claim transparency and communication, start from BEFORE the pledge happens. Less marketing jabber and more about it the specifics of what will be in the gizmo you fancy yourself selling. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 The potato salad kickstarter grinds my gears. That's more money than the 8k Star Castle raised. People are walking around thinking that 20 grand net (before paying the bills) really funds a project like that. Call that what it was: a gift. The dev got pennies an hour for specialist professional work. (Doesn't have to be free to be a gift.) Then, there's the way people poo-poo-ed David Crane when he presented a sensible budget... ... ... But... there was $50k for potato salad? You have money to throw at this "VCS" Linux box? Pffft.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, orange808 said: Then, there's the way people poo-poo-ed David Crane when he presented a sensible budget... ... ... Sorry, $900,000 for what looked like a budget title at best at the time was not a sensible budget, nor was showing off only a concept and not actual gameplay: If they were better able to show a better vision and ambition for the money, it would have surely done better than it did. At the time, it just seemed a way to try and cash-in on a beloved name rather than a product that needed to exist. In my opinion, it got as much support as the effort put into pushing the project deserved. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange808 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: Sorry, $900,000 for what looked like a budget title at best at the time was not a sensible budget, nor was showing off only a concept and not actual gameplay: If they were better able to show a better vision and ambition for the money, it would have surely done better than it did. At the time, it just seemed a way to try and cash-in on a beloved name rather than a product that needed to exist. In my opinion, it got as much support as the effort put into pushing the project deserved. Chicken and egg. Regardless, there were people suggesting a finished product should only need about twenty grand for a finished game. lmao Whatever. This is why lots of indie devs are trust fund kids from Massachusetts and New York. Oh well.. carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavi Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: Sorry, $900,000 for what looked like a budget title at best at the time was not a sensible budget, nor was showing off only a concept and not actual gameplay: If they were better able to show a better vision and ambition for the money, it would have surely done better than it did. At the time, it just seemed a way to try and cash-in on a beloved name rather than a product that needed to exist. In my opinion, it got as much support as the effort put into pushing the project deserved. He might have aimed a little bit too high there. Pitfall is incredibly popular (I know I still love playing it), and according to Wikipedia there were 4 million cartridges sold. Certainly not too shabby for the 80's. But 'Space Venture' barely broke 500K in fundraising, and this is for the guys behind the insanely popular 'Space Quest' series; a decade spanning gaming franchise. From what I recall of the original campaign (2013? Have I really been waiting that long now?) it was pretty heavy on the concept art and 'We're putting the band back together!' excitement, but they really did not have much in finished content to show off either at the time. Still; despite many delays it is finally in the home stretch and does look pretty good! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agillig Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, godslabrat said: We also have a major problem, particularly in the realm of hardware, of companies completely misrepresenting how close the product is to completion. Risking $300 for a box that's fully designed and ready to be pumped out of a Chinese factory is one proposition. Risking $300 for a system with no OS, firmware, and arguably not even a finished hardware design is quite another. At the very least, potential backers have the right to know exactly what category their purchase falls into BEFORE they make their pledge. If you want to claim transparency and communication, start from BEFORE the pledge happens. Less marketing jabber and more about it the specifics of what will be in the gizmo you fancy yourself selling. I have a confession to make: Gaming is a bit stale for me right now. The last console gen sucked, and I'm not optimistic about the next one. If someone started a Kickstarter that promised a fresh experience, I'd probably go in, guns a blazing. That being said, any functioning adult should have been able to tell the VCS part 2 or the Coleco Chameleon were going to be debacles. It's the same level of intelligence that keeps the "Cardholder Services" telephone scam and Nigerian prince email scam going. You're right, we do have a problem with companies hawking crap that is no where close to being a reality. But I'd say the bigger problem is that we have adults that are all too willing to send their money off to people who are proven liars. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Agillig said: I have a confession to make: Gaming is a bit stale for me right now. The last console gen sucked, and I'm not optimistic about the next one. If someone started a Kickstarter that promised a fresh experience, I'd probably go in, guns a blazing. It could be you, frankly, as there are tons of good things this "last console gen." I know I go through moods and what-not, although I always find stuff to enjoy here and there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 The moderator's, Al and me think this thread has run it's course and needs to be closed. 5 2 1 4 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agillig Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said: It could be you, frankly, as there are tons of good things this "last console gen." I know I go through moods and what-not, although I always find stuff to enjoy here and there. Yeah, I definitely enjoyed some stuff. But there were a lot of anti-consumer trends, and some companies just kept rehashing the same stuff over and over. I also didn't like the habit of releasing unfinished games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said: The moderator's, Al and me think this thread has run it's course and needs to be closed. As long as I can still get taco recipes somewhere on AtariAge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/17/2020 at 6:49 PM, Nathan Strum said: As long as I can still get taco recipes somewhere on AtariAge. There is now a thread specifically about hot sauce, for those who want to discuss that, and in time I'm sure there will even be a crunchy new taco recipe thread. In the meantime, for those who actually want to discuss updates and news about the modern "Atari" and the "VCS," there is already an information thread under Modern Gaming. I think that should cover our bases. 2 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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