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Goochman

New Atari Console that Ataribox?

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If they weren't such litigious pricks (Llamasoft, Redbubble), and they weren't using shady crowdfunding tactics, they'd just be ridiculous, instead of ridiculous, insulting, evasive, and sketchy.

Evasive and sketchy are two good adjectives to describe that 30 minute interview. I heard nothing but excuses. I wish the reporter had a lie detector with him.

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I'm listening to the Tipster "debate" and the dude trying to defend AtariBox is getting dumber by the minute. His premise seems to be "waaah, people are calling this a scam and that's not fair. Who cares that they don't answer questions? Everyone needs to wait until they're ready to share. Michael answers the questions -- he said he can't answer them! What is wrong with people?"

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What is wrong with people?"

 

head-up-ass.jpg

 

also works for current political queries as well

 

 

edit: somewhere in my "tween" years my dad looks at me and says hey son, grab your ears ... which I did

 

then he said now pull your head out of your ass

Edited by Osgeld
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head-up-ass.jpg

 

also works for current political queries as well

 

 

edit: somewhere in my "tween" years my dad looks at me and says hey son, grab your ears ... which I did

 

then he said now pull your head out of your ass

 

^^I haven't seen that posted in quite a while! Oldie but goldie. :rolling:

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I'm listening to the Tipster "debate" and the dude trying to defend AtariBox is getting dumber by the minute. His premise seems to be "waaah, people are calling this a scam and that's not fair. Who cares that they don't answer questions? Everyone needs to wait until they're ready to share. Michael answers the questions -- he said he can't answer them! What is wrong with people?"

 

It's fine to make everyone wait for information. That is, until money changes hands. Once it happens, that is the point they need to be up front and answer questions, especially important ones like what the product is actually going to be and what it is going to do.

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^ very good point. A lot of supporters trying to deflect 'the hate' seem to forget Atari it taking money right now, and are not answering questions right now.

 

Speaking of which. I could swear the funding total is moving down. Have the graphs from that other site been updated yet?

Edited by StopDrop&Retro
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It's fine to make everyone wait for information. That is, until money changes hands. Once it happens, that is the point they need to be up front and answer questions, especially important ones like what the product is actually going to be and what it is going to do.

For instance, when I preirdered the AVS and later preordered the Super NT, both companies had prior art and made it clear what I was getting. Brian Parkr developed the AVS and blogged about his development for 3 years before it was ready. Kevtris had prior art with Analogue as well and when they announced the price was comparable to the AVS, I was set on getting it.

 

With Atari VCS, we have no clue what we are getting. The 30 minute interview in the mp3 podcast with the comoany excec clued me into the fact they still don't have a clue what it is. That said, I have no interest in the console itself but I am intrigued by the joystick so I preordered just the stick. It's a low risk investment so I'm not out much if they fail.

 

Overall the Atari team really don't have favorable track records like RetroUSB / Brian Parker and Analog / Kevtris. Both consoles I am enamoredly happy with. But I'd put more faith in Retron77 than the Atari VCS. The former is a real product. The latter showed off a prop (3d printed brick) with random unseen 3rd party hardware (windows or xbox) running Tempest 4000.

 

And the developers at Llamasoft had no knowledge of any agreement with Atari to port to Linux. That's pretty shady to promise stuff you have no means of guaranteeing the delivery of. And I would not blame Llamasoft from pulling out of a contract they never agreed to. :ponder:

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Thanks for the tip, guys. I wouldn't have watched it w/o your recommendations. Your assessments are spot-on.

 

 

Interesting video of a debate between a youtuber detractor vs a supporter. It's long, almost an hour but I'm posting it here for those interested.

 

 

 

 

 

Just wanted to say, I'm watching this right now and it's one of the best videos I've seen so far. It is definitely worth a watch.

 

The host does a great job of calmly explaining the criticisms to him and it's fascinating to hear the Atari fan defend his position while contradicting himself all along the way.

 

 

I'm listening to the Tipster "debate" and the dude trying to defend AtariBox is getting dumber by the minute. His premise seems to be "waaah, people are calling this a scam and that's not fair. Who cares that they don't answer questions? Everyone needs to wait until they're ready to share. Michael answers the questions -- he said he can't answer them! What is wrong with people?"

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To be honest, I think that calling it a "scam" is a little too strong.

 

Rather, it should be enough to just point out that crowdfunded hardware projects, especially those without a working prototype, are a proposition that always carries unqualifiable risks. And the mere fact that there's an Atari badge on this one doesn't do anything to mitigate against that.

 

Indeed, you've only got to look at the Gameband to see just that. And whilst building a Linux PC in a novelty case might seem like low hanging fruit in comparison, there's still plenty of scope to mess this up.

 

And that's without getting into things that Atari are promising that could only really materialize if they were to sell millions of them.

 

 

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@Matt_B: I care to disagree with you here - if the Ataribox was just "hopes and dreams" and they had been honest about thatfrom day one, you were absolutely correct, but with their misleading videos depicting the two empty hunks of plastic as consoles - even announcing the May 22nd video as actual gameplay on a "VCS test platform" - they are obviously dishonest, and this is reason enough to say they are most probably scammers.

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^ very good point. A lot of supporters trying to deflect 'the hate' seem to forget Atari it taking money right now, and are not answering questions right now.

 

Speaking of which. I could swear the funding total is moving down. Have the graphs from that other site been updated yet?

The Backerkit tracker isn't real time, but it just updated a few minutes from when I'm posting this. https://www.backerkit.com/projects/atari-vcs-game-stream-connect-like-never-before-family-computers

 

The campaign is holding steady, losing a few and gaining a few backers all the time, with 4 days to go.

 

I feel the same way as most about how taking money changes things. The guy in the Tipster "debate" seems to believe that AtariBox is doing the fans a favor by giving them early access to the process, a way to preorder (arguably against IGG's terms of service) and a way to "help out." He states that the Box is coming no matter what, the campaign was to build a crowd, not fund the console, and that critics are being unfair by not reading their small print or something.

 

Goes without saying he's completely wrong ... it's on Ataribox to demonstrate why anyone should want their thing. They don't deserve a free pass because of their unearned name. It's up to them to use the myriad communication tools available to them to answer questions and otherwise communicate.

 

And taking money without evidence of doing something? That's pretty close to the dictionary definition of "scam."

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Just like I pointed out previously, these people willing to front a product before it exists have just given Atari free reign to determine their budget before establishing costs. One thing that's obvious is all the backers are paying a very hefty bill for the marketing and social media management that is focused on misleading them.

 

The real measure of this thing will be how much money, if any, will actually be put into the production of the product. If it ever materializes, it has every sign of being a grossly overpriced sub par Linux box. From the looks of things now though, it just looks like another short term marketing stunt to position them for a sale. I believe the "inside information" we're hearing that confirms that. I've worked in several companies that were desperate to sell, and that's exactly the kind of thing they do.

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Just because there may not be laws against fraud in the crowdfunding arena doesn't mean fraud doesn't happen. Remember, fraud is lying to gain financially, even if intensions are pure.

 

Unfortunatly, it would probably take a lawsuit in a few years to get a legal ruling, or at least find if refunds are owed(like with Sinclair).

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@Matt_B: I care to disagree with you here - if the Ataribox was just "hopes and dreams" and they had been honest about thatfrom day one, you were absolutely correct, but with their misleading videos depicting the two empty hunks of plastic as consoles - even announcing the May 22nd video as actual gameplay on a "VCS test platform" - they are obviously dishonest, and this is reason enough to say they are most probably scammers.

 

Yeah, Atari have been very misleading; there's no dispute about that. Still, I'd think that to cross over into "scam" territory the onus is on us to show that their intention is not to deliver, and that's rather difficult given the fine print that says they've not really got anything to actually demonstrate yet and the very long time you'd have to wait.

 

I'm much more happy with just pointing out how risky the project still is and that, even if Atari did manage to deliver on time and to spec, you'd still be getting something rather underwhelming. After all, if their intent is to deceive us that we're getting something special, why are they openly admitting that PowerA are making the controllers? That's more than enough honesty for me to be giving it a miss.

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Where is the line between "terrible deal on mediocre hardware with indeterminate software ecosystem, paid in advance, no refunds or other consumer protections, delivered with weak communication skills," and "scam?"

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what goes up, comes down again...

​(well, a little bit)

 

attachicon.gifdaily.PNG

 

Ooh, I had been wondering if Backerkit could display negatives. Hurry up and awaken, pigeons!
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Where is the line between "terrible deal on mediocre hardware with indeterminate software ecosystem, paid in advance, no refunds or other consumer protections, delivered with weak communication skills," and "scam?"

 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor

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Ooh, I had been wondering if Backerkit could display negatives. Hurry up and awaken, pigeons!

 

 

Sadly they're homing pigeons; they'll always return to "Atari." ;)

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"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor

Who's stupider? AtariBox team, or their supporters?

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Interesting. Thanks, 8Bitjunkie. I've been using Chrome to check Backerkit but it just mostly shows a flat line. Microsoft Edge shows the negatives more prominently. It also seems to work better at 100% (no zoom). Turns out there were quite a few negative days; starting about 06/13.

 

 

post-39941-0-17673500-1529932317_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

what goes up, comes down again...
​(well, a little bit)

 

attachicon.gifdaily.PNG

 

 

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