RetroN 77

[+stephena]

I'm pretty sure the kernel does include the required drivers, they're just not compiled in. The Stelladaptor/2600-daptor just needs basic USB HID controller support, which has been present in kernels for decades. You're right of course in that a new firmware needs to be created, but that is relatively easy. My concern would be whether adding this extra stuff takes up too much extra RAM. Only way to know is try it and see, I guess. Maybe I'll look into getting one of these adaptors too ...

[fluxit]

IIRC mouse and keyboard only requires hid+-usbhid which is the larger chunk of code, and is apparently already included. On my sorely needs to be updated Mint system, the 2600-daptor loads hid-generic, which is 'only' 16k and has no added dependencies over hid & usbhid FWIW.

[+stephena]

Yep, that seems to be what I remember as well. It's been so long since I looked at these modules, since I typically build my own kernels and compile in support for everything on my system.

[DirtyHairy]

I have done an *experimental* build of the R77 firmware that hopefully includes joystick / gamepad / stelladaptor support. The build runs fine, and I can play games, but I couldn't test joystick support as I currently lack a suitable OTG adapter. A few remarks:

• The build is based on the latest community image composed by Remowilliams, including the current Stella source for the R77. However, Remowilliams based his build on a source release 0.9-3 from Hyperkin, which I can't find on their page, so my build is based on 0.6. Don't think this makes a difference, though.
• I have included drivers for all of the more exotic USB game controllers, but the original kernel already includes generic HID support, so I don't think the lack of joystick support in the current firmware is a driver issue. However, hotplug was not properly set up, and SDL wasn't configured for linux gamepad support, either. I have changed the configuration accordingly. RAM is not an issue, there's still over 80MB free when Stella is running.
• It is sufficient to swap out the uImage on your current SD card. However, if you like our run into trouble this way, the full image for writing is linked, too. For writing the image, please see Remowilliam's excellent documentation on the R77 community FW thread. Don't attempt it unless you are sure you know what you are doing, your disks may be at risk.
• This is without warranty or any guarantees that it will work as intended. If it blows up your console or sets your TV on fire: you have been warned.

Please consider this an experiment. If it works and enables gamepad support, I'll try to coordinate with Remowilliams to get this supported in an updated build of the community image managed by him. If you are looking for something more official, please hold out until then.

 

uImage: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0IckehlQoEBHQOvSEaf0MGA8w#uImage

sdcard.img: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0X0MVJYzAmTO8Sxvm6kz2KgrA#sdcard

Edited January 26, 2019 by DirtyHairy

[fluxit]

I can confirm that after replacing uimage with your experimental build that hotplug works and my 2600-daptor works.

 

My nes styled generic USB gamepad worked after being configured in Stella(requires an attached keyboard.)

 

I can also confirm that the USB power supply I received with my R77 is garbage. It died after a few minutes exposure to the tiny extra load of a USB 2.0 hub(unpowered,) a Logitech wired keyboard, a generic optical mouse, and the 2600-daptor. The PS was supposed to be able to supply 1 amp. I measured the full load(while emulating) on an LG 'charger' peaking at 560ma.

 

Just to make sure that hotplugging(on my part) wasn't the issue with the 2600-daptor on the original build, I switched back to the original uimage to test, and the 2600-daptor definitely doesn't work with that build, hotplugged or not.

Edited January 27, 2019 by fluxit

[fluxit]

Here's my OTG cable.

 

 

I might have placed the ports a bit too close together.

[+stephena]

I can confirm that after replacing uimage with your experimental build that hotplug works and my 2600-daptor works.

 

My nes styled generic USB gamepad worked after being configured in Stella(requires an attached keyboard.)

 

This is likely because Stella 3 doesn't always pick up the first joystick as joystick 0, so it needs manual configuration. This was fixed in later versions, but of course we're stuck with 3 for now. The Stelladaptor/2600-daptor is recognized as a special case, and always works on initial plugin.

 

I can also confirm that the USB power supply I received with my R77 is garbage. It died after a few minutes exposure to the tiny extra load of a USB 2.0 hub(unpowered,) a Logitech wired keyboard, a generic optical mouse, and the 2600-daptor. The PS was supposed to be able to supply 1 amp. I measured the full load(while emulating) on an LG 'charger' peaking at 560ma.

 

I'll keep this in mind while experimenting.

 

Just to make sure that hotplugging(on my part) wasn't the issue with the 2600-daptor on the original build, I switched back to the original uimage to test, and the 2600-daptor definitely doesn't work with that build, hotplugged or not.

 

Hotplugging will definitely not work before the software upgrade. Certain options weren't even being enabled (specifically, SDL was compiled without the required support). So nothing can be done on your end without the software fix.

[doug0909]

So wait... Paddles and driving controllers and trackballs will actually work with it now? Has anyone tested them with this setup? Is there any noticeable lag with paddles /kaboom?

[+Karl G]

I'm curious if you can get a serial console via this port without having to do a hardware modification. It would certainly make development on the system easier.

[DirtyHairy]

I can confirm that after replacing uimage with your experimental build that hotplug works and my 2600-daptor works.

 

My nes styled generic USB gamepad worked after being configured in Stella(requires an attached keyboard.)

 

Nice I'll prepare a patch and send it to Remowilliams.

 

Just to make sure that hotplugging(on my part) wasn't the issue with the 2600-daptor on the original build, I switched back to the original uimage to test, and the 2600-daptor definitely doesn't work with that build, hotplugged or not.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected that much, but I wasn't 100% sure whether the SDL configuration change really was necessary to get evdev working properly. Based upon your result, the relevant changes are:

• An additional configuration option to SDL for evdev support
• A change to the init script to configure the kernel to properly use busybox / mdev for hotplugging

I'm curious if you can get a serial console via this port without having to do a hardware modification. It would certainly make development on the system easier.

 

 

You won't get a serial console that way; you still have to use the UART header for this (which isn't difficult). However, I'd like to try to get a wifi dongle and ssh working once I find time (and have ordered a OTG-adapter). This way, you could get a shell and copy files remotely --- which would make development *much* easier imho.

Edited January 27, 2019 by DirtyHairy

[fluxit]

So wait... Paddles and driving controllers and trackballs will actually work with it now? Has anyone tested them with this setup? Is there any noticeable lag with paddles /kaboom?

 

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't, though I've only tested joystick on the 2600-daptor so far. Super Breakout with USB mouse was silky smooth and I didn't notice any more lag than my TV introduces in 'game mode,' ~50ms. If I get the time today, I'll test Kaboom with paddles, and a couple of games with trak-ball. I don't have any driving controllers.

[DirtyHairy]

So wait... Paddles and driving controllers and trackballs will actually work with it now? Has anyone tested them with this setup? Is there any noticeable lag with paddles /kaboom?

 

 

The R77 should be almost perfect lag-wise (excluding possible signal processing lag in the TV) --- it as as bare-bones as it can get, just busybox, Stella and the linux kernel.

Edited January 27, 2019 by DirtyHairy

[doug0909]

I'm a little confused (haven't bought the system yet)... What would I have to do to connect the Stelladaptor? Is it a hardware mod?

 

If this all works, is it definitely a better option than the Flashback 9 for a dedicated 2600 emulation machine with hdmi out?

[fluxit]

Here's the dirt(so to speak) on 2600-daptor paddles and trak-ball vs the current(updated) Retron 77:

 

Super Breakout - rom works, cart works

Kaboom - rom works, my cart is in the bottom of a box that I'm not going to dig through today.

 

In short, if Stella knows that a game is paddle compatible, your paddles(both) will be as smooth or as jittery as they would be on a 'real' 2600, unlike when they are plugged into the front ports on the R77.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Trak-ball games... does this version of Stella understand trak-balls?

 

My CX-80 is being detected as a mouse by the R77, and works as a mouse, as on my desktop machine.

 

Missile Command TB - roms don't work, cart doesn't work. I tried the CX-80 and CX-22 variants, including those that *do* work on my desktop Stella.

Everything else TB - I didn't find a rom that works. My optical mouse also doesn't work as a trak-ball(though it does as a mouse in the menu) on the R77.

Edited January 27, 2019 by fluxit

[fluxit]

I'm a little confused (haven't bought the system yet)... What would I have to do to connect the Stelladaptor? Is it a hardware mod?

 

If this all works, is it definitely a better option than the Flashback 9 for a dedicated 2600 emulation machine with hdmi out?

 

Go back a page in the thread. You need a special cable, no mod is required.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Trak-ball games... does this version of Stella understand trak-balls?

Trackballs are supported, but probably not configured for the ROMs you tested. IIRC with a Stella.pro file you should be able to fix that.

[+remowilliams]

Nice I'll prepare a patch and send it to Remowilliams

 

Thanks for making the patches and sending them over! I've applied them to the current base and built a new image, plugged in the OTG cable from my Nvidia Shield, a powered USB hub, 2600-daptor D9, and keyboard.

Annnnd... I just played some Solar Storm, Circus Atari and Kaboom over the D9 without horrible jittering paddle controls. Nice

 

Excellent detective work fluxit

 

 

I'll post a test image in the R77 CB thread.

[fluxit]

Trackballs are supported, but probably not configured for the ROMs you tested. IIRC with a Stella.pro file you should be able to fix that.

 

Ah, yes. I see now where one can choose a controller type per rom in Stella now. I know that you can add entries externally as well, but I can't figure out how to access other pages in stella's configuration dialogs in order to do it with just a keyboard- directly on the R77. I can cycle through the buttons with the 'Tab' key, but Stella skips the dialog page tabs.

 

Can it be done with keyboard only? I can't seem to manage it on my desktop Stella without a mouse either, and with no mouse pointer on the R77, it's very difficult to go that route.

[+remowilliams]

Can it be done with keyboard only? I can't seem to manage it on my desktop Stella without a mouse either, and with no mouse pointer on the R77, it's very difficult to go that route.

 

Shift+Arrow keys should get you there.

[fluxit]

 

Shift+Arrow keys should get you there.

Ah-hah. I tried all combinations of Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Space, and Tab, and every other single key on the keyboard, but not that.

 

With Thomas' and your hints, Trak-ball games are now working as well as paddle games. I'm now loving the Retron 77- 'modern' Atari gaming goodness.

 

Thank you both, and to all other contributors, including StephenA, of course .

Edited January 28, 2019 by fluxit

[Atariboy]

If Stella 6.0 unfortunately never makes it to this, would a cheap HDMI to RCA audio extractor perhaps work around the audio issue a few people have had with this and capture equipment?

 

Or would the analog audio still be at the same 31400Hz after going through the digital to analog converter?

[thetick1]

And to be absolutely clear: Yes, I am being somewhat selfish and clarifying this since some people (not so much you guys on AtariAge, but the general public) are seeing some issues with the product and saying that Stella is crap because of it. That is not the case, and I can explain (in excruciating detail if required) why Stella can only do so much on this device. Improvements can be made, but the emulation is only part of the equation.

 

Those of us that actually care to do any research know. Stella 5+ is just awesome. Even the 3.9.3 Stella with FB9 is really good. Every 2600 rom (expect about the three recent homebrews that require Stella 5+) all work flawlessly. Thanks for your hard work and all your co-developers over years on Stella. You're not selfish as Stella is open source! Anyway even AtGames can make a nice cheap hardware product using an ancient 3.9.3 Stella. The FB9 is not perfect as we are still patiently waiting for paddles, but Hyperkin well uh... they just always make unfished crap.

 

Hyperkin sucks .. not you and your co-developers.

Edited January 28, 2019 by thetick1

[Keatah]

Hyperkin sucks .. not you and your co-developers.

 

True enough.

[doug0909]

Hyperkin should pay you guys, or at least least give you an award.

So based on this and likely future developments...

If someone wants only one dedicated 2600 emulation machine, is there any reason to choose the FB9 instead of this?

Also, do you think there will be any way to attach standard Bluetooth digital gamepads to this?

Edited January 28, 2019 by doug0909

[Mr SQL]

 

Those of us that actually care to do any research know. Stella 5+ is just awesome. Even the 3.9.3 Stella with FB9 is really good. Every 2600 rom (expect about the three recent homebrews that require Stella 5+) all work flawlessly. Thanks for your hard work and all your co-developers over years on Stella. You're not selfish as Stella is open source! Anyway even AtGames can make a nice cheap hardware product using an ancient 3.9.3 Stella. The FB9 is not perfect as we are still patiently waiting for paddles, but Hyperkin well uh... they just always make unfished crap.

 

Hyperkin sucks .. not you and your co-developers.

 

Neither the Retron77 nor Stella are "crap", the hardware is simply limited by the capabilities of the emulator.

 

Hyperkin should pay you guys, or at least least give you an award.

 

So based on this and likely future developments...

 

If someone wants only one dedicated 2600 emulation machine, is there any reason to choose the FB9 instead of this?

 

A good reason to choose both (by selecting the FB9 composite model) would be to have two different Atari emulators; games that don't work on one may be more likely to work on the other.

 

Hyperkin thanked me for making a major contribution, but sharing new Atari games is it's own reward.

 

The Stella team has reposted my games for folks to enjoy but also broke their emu's compatibility with them worse while trying to fix it. There are hotfix versions of the games that broke in the new build here that also resolve the related Stella errors in the FB9 HDMI model:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285423-atari-flashback-9-rom-patches/