Which is the Best Way to Experience NES Games?

[Tanooki]

Advising someone to go into debt, even a small one, for goddamned video games is insane. Just save up, you don't NEED it.

[+thegoldenband]

For action games, NES + Blinking Light Win + EverDrive N8 into a CRT is my setup (except for the games I own as real carts, obviously). Lag makes action games less fun, subtly and insidiously -- and I say that as someone who used to believe most of the hoopla about lag was silly -- so keeping a CRT is worth it. I certainly use emulators for practice, though.

 

For games that don't depend on timing, like RPGs and strategy games, or where the action isn't fast? Anything will do. The difference between playing Dragon Warrior on my laptop and on my NES isn't much, and I'd rather play while watching TV with my wife. It's also nice to have the option of using savestates to guard against a failing battery or weird crash.

[Tanooki]

It is hoopla depending on the display lag on your TV and your levels of tolerances from it too. In general you get a tv under 30ms you won't experience it. The only good of a CRT is for light gun games or dead pan accuracy over a sub-HD wiring setup. It just takes research to get the right screen, and if the TVs on the market don't cover it there are very nicely priced computer LCDs with hdmi inputs that get around 1-5ms lag on them.

 

I currently own even from the same maker TVs that fall under and over that level and while one of those TVs destroys the playability of something as straight forward as SMB3, the others can hold their own doing that game, shooters, and other timing sensitive gems like punchout.

[BydoEmpire]

The best way - for me, and it is a totally subjective question - is to have a real NES on a small-to-medium sized crt TV. Real hardware all the way. That's not always the most convenient in terms of money or space, but in terms of actually enjoying the games it wins out. I have no person experience with it, but NES + Everdrive seems like a pretty good solution. I would definitely be okay with the NES Mini if it was in the $50 range.

[+thegoldenband]

It just takes research to get the right screen

 

Well, all I can say is that I did that research, went with what seemed to be a clear and well-documented recommendation on rtings.com...and ended up with an LCD TV that has 200+ ms lag minimum with any input source I've tried. In other words, no better than every other LCD TV I've used.

 

Sure, I could drop more money on another set, in hopes that this one would come through. But why would I when I have a CRT in hand that looks great, has zero lag, and doesn't need elaborate mods or expensive outboard signal processing units to display a good, clean picture? Why spend more money to have less fun?

[Tanooki]

Never heard of rtings.com before, went to displaylag.com that only rates TVs based upon having problems with gaming consoles. If you have a CRT already that's fine too, but in general I wouldn't bother trying to seek one out is all. They're big, heavy, space wasting, not supported, and some components in them supposedly as of this or last year were no longer made so they're dying out.

 

I didn't get any tv with an elaborate mod or expensive signal processor. I saw one, the price was asinine. THere was this like $600 Sony 19" LED TV around 3 years back which got the ms lag into the lower teens. I dropped $250 on a 29" vizio which rated around 27ms I believe it was and it worked perfectly. When I went shopping I just used that website, then found what was in stock locally I could check out and went with it. The joke of an overpriced Sony was just next to it. For that level I could have just bought a very nice computer style LCD that was huge and ran TV off that and still saved money.

[Keatah]

Did you ever get the IIgs disk issue sorted?

 

---

 

That said, I'm always a huge fan of playing actual cartridges on actual hardware. Something about playing emulators - *any* emulator, whether official or not - cheapens the experience for me. It just doesn't feel "substantial" somehow. I definitely do it - I have a PSP filled with thousands of games, and I've run MAME with a full romset for probably 15 years - but it's not my preferred way to play anything. If you could ask me whether I'd rather play Lunar Lander on MAME or on an actual standup machine with real vector graphics? The answer's obvious.

 

I think that's the case for most of us. At least for those of us who do not have a full-blown "stocked with our favorites" arcade in the basement. The biggest advantages of arcade machine emulation is that you do not have to consume a lot of space. AND you can have virtually any arcade machine immediately available. I shudder to think about wanting to play Gyruss - Tac/Scan - Zaxxon - Assault - Missile Command - Lunar Lander - Liberator - I'Robot - Tempest - and more, in that order, while having to travel hundreds of miles all fucking day long to visit 3 different arcades to do so. With no guarantee the machines will be available and in working order. Emulation totally trumps

 

I've always wondered about adding substance to emulators. The best I could come up with is a dedicated PC (or bartop) for that purpose. And making a 3-ring binder with quick reference cards for each of the major emulators. Looks nice and real documentation grounds a system in reality. No? Ahh well.. Something to do, you know?

 

 

When I play emulated games, I always end up playing them for 5 minutes and then move on to something else. Something about playing the real games on the real hardware where everything's designed to go together keeps me interested. I think the ritual of taking the cartridge, putting it in the system and turning it on even has something to do with it. I've got some classic computers with SD card floppy emulators too and I always end up losing my concentration with them too, and pressing the button to reset and go to the next game. That doesn't happen when I put a real floppy in a real drive. Maybe it's literally just the minor inconvenience of having to take a physical thing out and put in another one, but it's enough to keep me playing and I end up being rewarded for that more often than not. A lot of games aren't really fun until you get into that "zone". But I never get there when playing emulators.

 

Some of the "experience" IS getting down and dirty with real hardware. If that's your thing I won't argue there.

 

Now, I also tend to move between games fairly quickly without getting into them. But after going through 5 or 6 titles, I do indeed settle down into a more lengthly and in-depth session with ONE game. Or one subject matter if I'm exploring an ancient word processor, or terminal program, or some kinda disk utility.

 

Part of it has to do with mindset. One must be willing to suspend belief that you're playing on an emulator.. playing on a PC.. Don't be drilling "emulator, emulator, emulator" into your head. Think of it as an alternative way of playing. Think of the emulator as a super-advanced core that transforms your microprocessor into a console's motherboard & chipset with many capabilities. The interplay of registers, stacks, ALU, MMU, FPU, GPU, and more all sing the tune of whatever console you need. All of it works together to become an arcade machine, or ColecoVision, or VCS, or Atari 400/800.

 

And take solace in that if your favorite game isn't emulated or isn't emulated correctly today, it may be tomorrow.

 

[Games Retrospect]

I don't have the space at the moment, but I'm definitely getting a CRT in the future. I used to have a 21-inch Telefunken when I was younger (I don't know if anyone's familiar with that brand, but I think it's German.) What should I take into account if I'm getting a CRT for video gaming? Just the brand? What about the lag? I assume it varies from TV to TV. I remember doing some research a long time ago and most people recommended Sony PVMs, but I've never seen one in person where I live. Thanks in advance!

[VectorGamer]

I don't have the space at the moment, but I'm definitely getting a CRT in the future. I used to have a 21-inch Telefunken when I was younger (I don't know if anyone's familiar with that brand, but I think it's German.) What should I take into account if I'm getting a CRT for video gaming? Just the brand? What about the lag? I assume it varies from TV to TV. I remember doing some research a long time ago and most people recommended Sony PVMs, but I've never seen one in person where I live. Thanks in advance!

 

This has been answered before on the forums: a Sony Trinitron. I just gave my last one to iesposta - it was a 32" and heavy as ****. I think it had like 6 inputs on it. I probably have a 1/2 dozen CRTs in the garage of various sizes.

[Professor Gull]

So why is the Wii with the Homebrew app installed not a good option?

 

If you are going after a system go after a bundle and personally I would try to go local as you can if you can. If not try forums like here or Nintendoage. Guaranteed someone will have something for sale on that mark. When you bundle its not for the price of each game but the set as a whole so things can be more reasonable.

 

Try apps like Offer Up or Let Go as well as dare I say it Facebook market.

 

Now I am going to go and play on my Wii with homebrew its "Little Sampson" time.

[godslabrat]

If you got a credit card, you owe yourself to get one. Pay it off monthly if you have to. It's worth it!

Which one? The AVS, the Everdrive, or the TV?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Which one? The AVS, the Everdrive, or the TV?

Both. Assuming you already own a TV. If not then all three, and look up your desired model on displaylag prior to purchase...

[mr_me]

 

Well, all I can say is that I did that research, went with what seemed to be a clear and well-documented recommendation on rtings.com...and ended up with an LCD TV that has 200+ ms lag minimum with any input source I've tried. In other words, no better than every other LCD TV I've used.

 

Sure, I could drop more money on another set, in hopes that this one would come through. But why would I when I have a CRT in hand that looks great, has zero lag, and doesn't need elaborate mods or expensive outboard signal processing units to display a good, clean picture? Why spend more money to have less fun?

What lcd TV? 200ms lag doesn't sound right. Did you disable all the TV extra picture processing? Digital TVs are better with digital signals and SD analog signals are best with analog CRTs (if you have one). If you have a digital TV try a good emulator or fpga clone. Edited July 13, 2017 by mr_me

[+GoldenWheels]

CRTs are free, and plentiful, at least in my area. If you've got the room, having an SD gaming setup and an HD gaming setup is pretty damn nice.

 

Yup,CRTs are big, heavy, and not likely to be repaired. Good thing you're not meant to move your TV around the house with you like a phone, nor is "FREE" much of an investment to lose if it just out and out breaks. Take it to the dump, and find another.

[DJ Clae]

Original hardware modded with NESRGB on the Framemeister or a CRT.

[GameGirl420]

The best monitor I've ever played NES on is the 40 inch Zenith Space Command!

 

Also playing the NES on those rare Sharp NES TV's is really awesome. The television sets with the NES built into it. One of my cousins had one,and great memories playing NES on that.

 

Currently I'm playing my NES on a 13 inch Sanyo and that's awesome.

[BydoEmpire]

I'm actually a fan of classic games on smaller TVs: 20" or less. This is especially true for arcade-style games where you really need to keep the whole screen in your field of view at once. YMMV.

[NE146]

So why is the Wii with the Homebrew app installed not a good option?

 

I wouldn't say it's "not good" but heck, it's just yet another emulation box.. e.g. original Xbox, Rpi3, wii, NES Classic, and any other variants etc. etc. etc. At this point it's the vanilla everyone has, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

That said, I'm in the real NES + Everdrive + CRT camp. I like the fact that the Everdrive supports Save States, so it's the way to go for me. And yes for me it is extremely satisfying playing on original consoles hardware on a CRT.. It just gives a "vibe" I just don't get playing on a computer. 'Course that doesn't stop me from them either.. or even snagging the analogue NT (which I also dig). It's all about options.

[mr_me]

If I understand it correctly, the Wii has an advantage over Xbox when using a crt because it can do 240p and the xbox is stuck at 480i. Raspberry Pi recently supports 240p composite. But if you are going to emulate maybe better to go digital video.

[+Black_Tiger]

If you are leaning towards actual hardware, then:

 

1. An original NES on a consumer CRT or a professional monitor.

 

Or,

 

2. A RetroUSB AVS or Analogue NT Mini on a HD TV.

 

/endofthread

 

Simulated hardware isn't the real thing.

 

240p consoles weren't meant for digital or HD screens either.

 

 

 

If you want an authentic experience and not be limited to only a portion of the overall library, get a Famicom (not NES) system and a flashcart.

 

The next best thing to real hardware and the most bang for the buck is to get a Wii and soft mod it with emulators. You should have no trouble finding one already setup with emulators and roms for a fair price.

[cybercylon]

I was going to ask how much space you have but saw above that you are planning to make room; when space is an issue, then this suggestion: Original hardware modded with NESRGB on the Framemeister as mentioned above.

 

My issue has been getting a front loader that is reliable for any length of time, even after I replace the pin connector. Then the power brick dies, etc. Maybe I just have the worst luck. I have not tried the blinking light win connector.

 

For RGB, there is a mod service, but it it is not cheap, and it looks like they are not doing the mods the moment.

 

Issues for some going this route: games do not look authentic. The colors get separated nicely, and a Framemeister does a far better job at scaling than your TV can do, but you will see all of the jaggies and pixels. This is an issue for some people. If it is an issue for you, then wait until you can make room for a CRT and just enjoy the Wii VC for now. There is nothing wrong with that. Also, having those mods done and buying a Framemeister is expensive.

[mr_me]

 

Simulated hardware isn't the real thing.

 

240p consoles weren't meant for digital or HD screens either.

 

 

 

If you want an authentic experience and not be limited to only a portion of the overall library, get a Famicom (not NES) system and a flashcart.

 

The next best thing to real hardware and the most bang for the buck is to get a Wii and soft mod it with emulators. You should have no trouble finding one already setup with emulators and roms for a fair price.

FPGA, if done correctly, is far closer to the real thing than [software] emulation. And, if you have to go digital TV, can be more practical. Edited July 15, 2017 by mr_me

[TheGameCollector]

You have to have a CRT to play Duck Hunt and other light gun games, but if you don't have much room, a smaller CRT isn't as heavy or as much trouble to have set up somewhere. Thrift stores and pawn shops still get CRTs pretty often in my area. Occasionally people are still leaving them outside apartments near the dumpsters so there is even a chance of getting one for free. In fact want ads on craigslist, backpage and other websites could be another way to get one free. You could just ask if anyone is willing to give you a CRT. Someone who is cleaning their home just might be able to grant your wish. I got a free Windows 95 computer by asking for one in a facebook giveaway group just so I could try running some old games natively instead of in compatibility mode. It's less glitchy that way. Most newer PC's don't have old style gamepad ports either.

 

If you have a modded Wii, the NES emulator on there is actually capable of playing light gun games with the Wiimote on any TV though. It even has optional crosshairs in case your sensor bar aiming isn't accurate enough.

Edited August 6, 2017 by TheGameCollector

[Noah98]

You could also get a retrofreak with the controller adapter and an sd card. As long as you don't put thousands of roms on it, it's a quick and easy solution. Compatibility and accuracy is surprisingly good!

[Tanooki]

I'm surprised that no one with emulator side options will come around to enabling the SNES Mouse as a hack to do NES/SNES light gun games much like how some PC emulators do it with a crosshair. That would make these lost gun games fun and usable once more.