Could the release of Black Ice/White Noise saved the Jaguar and Atari?

[VintageGamer74]

It just seems from what I have through the years that the only thing that would saved the Jaguar was a competent and flush with money Atari who actually helped developers. It wasn't the hardware. It was the lack of triple A software that hurt it.

 

I was so jazzed when I got but I just didn't see much in the terms of software that made me think it was that much better than Super NES or the Gensis. My two cents.

[Zerosquare]

It was the lack of triple A software that hurt it.

That.

And bad management.

And lack of advertising.

And poor relations with developers and retailers.

And competing against a 800-pound gorilla (Sony).

And really low budgets and team sizes compared to competitors.

And Atari running out of money.

And...

 

To succeed in the marketplace, what the Jaguar needed was a miracle.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Zerosquare

[VintageGamer74]

Totally agree. Doesn't matter anyway. Atari, for all intents and purposes, is dead. Just nice to see people producing, games, controllers and other goodies for the Jag!

[82-T/A]

This was a game that I really thought could have been really cool on the Jaguar.

 

The Atari Jaguar... totally from my perspective, tried to appeal to that "future punk" sort of... Blade Runner type of theme. The Jaguar really played itself as an advanced system that was something of the future.

 

A game like Black Ice / White Noise would have fit nicely into that. But... yeah... what can I say, I'm no expert. Atari just had too many issues and while the system was very cool, it was easily superceded by other systems. It had the same kind of fate as the Sega Saturn, in my opinion.

[+madman]

It had the same kind of fate as the Sega Saturn, in my opinion.

Minus the success in Japan and excellent arcade ports.

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't get the Saturn comparison either, I'm afraid. It had almost 1,000 more games, sold nearly 9 million more units, and had wide-ranging support and industry respect versus the Jaguar. About the only ways I can think it was somewhat similar with the Jaguar was that some of its early software was rushed and buggy and it was lacking some of the 3D features in hardware a system like the PS1 had built-in. Otherwise, there's nothing else I can really think was the same or similar.

[+madman]

I don't get the Saturn comparison either, I'm afraid. It had almost 1,000 more games, sold nearly 9 million more units, and had wide-ranging support and industry respect versus the Jaguar. About the only ways I can think it was somewhat similar with the Jaguar was that some of its early software was rushed and buggy and it was lacking some of the 3D features in hardware a system like the PS1 had built-in. Otherwise, there's nothing else I can really think was the same or similar.

I agree, even if you talk US Saturn sales vs the Jag, it's not even close. Sure the Saturn got clobbered, but there are a TON of great games on the system. Even more if you expand into the imports.

[Jag64]

On 7/14/2017 at 4:07 AM, Adriano Arcade said:

Could the release of the infamous Black Ice/White Noise saved the Jaguar and even Atari?

 

Not even if it looked like this....

 

And if anyone even TRIES to suggest that image isn't real, then explain why it appeared in this 1994 issue of Ultra GamePlayers magazine?

 

 

And sure, that's fake too, but I was bored.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Jag64

[roots.genoa]

Why did I read "Mega Boners" instead of "Mega Bonus" on the cover? ?

[Mikebloke]

I know there is a lot of these threads about right now but I've decided a port of Toki might have saved the Jaguar. 

[Jag64]

Well, I completely forgot there were two other playable characters in the game. Woke up this morning, took a peek at Black Ice \ White Noise art from BJ West and company, then tried to update the other two.....

[Jag64]

It's 2022, so you can't have two male characters, and only one female. So, to balance things out, Black ICE \ White Noise needs a fourth character that happens to be female. Problem solved. She's called a taxi and on her way to the game. Somebody let BJ West know the BI\WN universe is expanding.

[alucardX]

Just curious, but who owns the copyright to Black Ice/White Noise? That could be a fun project to revive in some form.

[Jag64]

37 minutes ago, alucardX said:

Just curious, but who owns the copyright to Black Ice/White Noise? That could be a fun project to revive in some form.

Gotta go with B.J. West as at least holding some kind of rights to the intellectual property. Even though Atari didn't release a retail version, B.J. (Kelp Entertainment, and then through C.T.) sold versions of the beta. So he's got IP rights at minimum, I'd think.

[alucardX]

13 minutes ago, Jag64 said:

Gotta go with B.J. West as at least holding some kind of rights to the intellectual property. Even though Atari didn't release a retail version, B.J. (Kelp Entertainment, and then through C.T.) sold versions of the beta. So he's got IP rights at minimum, I'd think.

So you're saying he is likely copyright holder? It would be fun to do something with it. Maybe even just something similar would be good enough.

[Jag64]

Honestly, it's just easier to churn out a cyberpunk themed game and throw some nods in BI\WN's direction throughout that game.

 

Logically speaking, we're talking about a "game" that boils down to a menu system and hailing taxis, as it was never finished. However, there's a story, script, etc. in place. But considering the story was inspired by other cyberpunk stories and board games, you're better off getting 2-3 nerds (I call everyone nerds, self included) together to churn out a basic story arch and flesh out dialog and direction (course to reach final objective/boss/reward). Heck, there's enough inspiration out there, a copywriter could crap out a complete cyberpunk synopsis/script over night (with enough beer, adderall, coke, I don't know what your bag is. Go straight edge, whatever.).

 

Then again, if Mr. West (sounds cooler) has all the video of the actors, I'm not sure what's stopping the game from getting a solid release. There are five to six guys on this site alone that should be able to code it easily. If graphics are a hang-up, I would contribute. I've been a little curious about making Jaguar games since seeing Clint Thompson's Simone. It's a very smart game; a bunch of prerendered scenes called-to to represent the actions of a simple memory game. Of course my game would just be chicks with huge breasts playing tic-tac-toe or something. ... ... Where was I?

 

tl;dr Black ICE \ White Noise would be a fun project. But it would need to be made into a multi-platform release to be remotely worth the time of anyone but a passionate hobbyist. If there are enough willing, it could be an opportunity to put out something that proved what could be done on the machine once and for all. I'll prerender TF out of some scenes/backgrounds/animations, if it meant getting the Jag some respect. ... Cause I'm a dork.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Jag64

[Pete5125]

On 5/2/2022 at 8:32 AM, Jag64 said:

Honestly, it's just easier to churn out a cyberpunk themed game and throw some nods in BI\WN's direction throughout that game.

 

Logically speaking, we're talking about a "game" that boils down to a menu system and hailing taxis, as it was never finished. However, there's a story, script, etc. in place. But considering the story was inspired by other cyberpunk stories and board games, you're better off getting 2-3 nerds (I call everyone nerds, self included) together to churn out a basic story arch and flesh out dialog and direction (course to reach final objective/boss/reward). Heck, there's enough inspiration out there, a copywriter could crap out a complete cyberpunk synopsis/script over night (with enough beer, adderall, coke, I don't know what your bag is. Go straight edge, whatever.).

 

Then again, if Mr. West (sounds cooler) has all the video of the actors, I'm not sure what's stopping the game from getting a solid release. There are five to six guys on this site alone that should be able to code it easily. If graphics are a hang-up, I would contribute. I've been a little curious about making Jaguar games since seeing Clint Thompson's Simone. It's a very smart game; a bunch of prerendered scenes called-to to represent the actions of a simple memory game. Of course my game would just be chicks with huge breasts playing tic-tac-toe or something. ... ... Where was I?

 

tl;dr Black ICE \ White Noise would be a fun project. But it would need to be made into a multi-platform release to be remotely worth the time of anyone but a passionate hobbyist. If there are enough willing, it could be an opportunity to put out something that proved what could be done on the machine once and for all. I'll prerender TF out of some scenes/backgrounds/animations, if it meant getting the Jag some respect. ... Cause I'm a dork.

Atari owned it, one of the weird contentious of the game was WB asked to listensce it to develope a movie project around said game, Atari felt they had the next Mortal Kombat on their hands and asked for a ridiculous amount for an unknown ed entity, wb walked Atari folded before game could be released.

 

Then again I have no idea what the rights are worth to an unfinished game developed for a bomb system, based off of generic cyberpunk ideas.  I would guess only if you were crazy enough to name it black ice white noise and have a cyberpunk theme would be the only way anyone would know.

.

[Machine]

On 5/1/2022 at 6:46 PM, alucardX said:

So you're saying he is likely copyright holder? It would be fun to do something with it. Maybe even just something similar would be good enough.

 

It would be cool to see it remade in the same style as "River City Rampage" .....

[Adriano Arcade]

In case anyone wants to listen to the podcast that setup this amazing thread, please see below. Hopefully I will talk to BJ West on a future Arcade Attack podcast too! All feedback appreciated! 

 

 

 

[pacman000]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:44 PM, Zerosquare said:

That.

1) And bad management.

2) And lack of advertising.

3) And poor relations with developers and retailers.

4) And competing against a 800-pound gorilla (Sony).

5) And really low budgets and team sizes compared to competitors.

6) And Atari running out of money.

And...

 

To succeed in the marketplace, what the Jaguar needed was a miracle.

I'd say #6 is the reason behind #5 & #2, maybe even #3. And #1 is probably the reason behind #6. 

 

As such, we can blame the Jaguar's failure on #1. Jack Tramiel's management style was too old-fashioned, & his sons inherited his style.