AtariLeaf Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Looking to replace some bad ram in an 800xl. What is the best source? Best Electronics? Ebay? Some other online seller I'm not aware of. Also how many should I buy and what can I expect to pay? It would seem to me to be advantageous to buy more than 8 in case one or two are bad out of the gate. Thanks for you time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Looking to replace some bad ram in an 800xl. What is the best source? Best Electronics? Ebay? Some other online seller I'm not aware of. Also how many should I buy and what can I expect to pay? It would seem to me to be advantageous to buy more than 8 in case one or two are bad out of the gate. Thanks for you time Where are you from?Which chips you want? How many? Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NISMOPC Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) I bought a nice lot of new "old stock" Texas Instrument chips off ebay for what I considered a great deal. Les than a $1 a chip. http://www.ebay.com/itm/25x-TEXAS-INSTRUMENTS-TMS4164-15NL-16-Pin-Dip-DRAM-New-/332081794334?epid=1801591024&hash=item4d519e0d1e:g:G1sAAOSw44BYbW6C TMS4164-15NL 16-Pin Edited July 14, 2017 by NISMOPC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Where are you from? Which chips you want? How many? Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk I'm from Southern Ontario in Canada. I'd probably need 8 at least. As for which chips, I'm not sure what they are called but they are the 8 ram chips on the left of an 800XL board. This particular board is socketed , thank goodness so it should just be a simple thing to pop them in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivan Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I'm from Southern Ontario in Canada. I'd probably need 8 at least. As for which chips, I'm not sure what they are called but they are the 8 ram chips on the left of an 800XL board. This particular board is socketed , thank goodness so it should just be a simple thing to pop them in Hmm. I'm from United Kingdom and post will be expensive. I have some spare chips and I'm able send it just for postage. But try find somewhere closer before Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NISMOPC Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I'm from Southern Ontario in Canada. I'd probably need 8 at least. As for which chips, I'm not sure what they are called but they are the 8 ram chips on the left of an 800XL board. This particular board is socketed , thank goodness so it should just be a simple thing to pop them in That link on eBay would be what you need. Some reference #'s for you as well to search on. the farthest right part #. Found these from a ATARI vendor approved list document: 137339-001 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY MT4264N-12 137339-002 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin HITACHI_AMERICA_LTD HM4864P-2 137339-003 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INTEL 2164A-15 137339-004 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TOSHIBA TMM4164P-3 137339-005 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin OKI_SEMICONDUCTOR M3764-15 137339-006 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS4164-15NL 137339-007 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU MB8264A-15M 137339-008 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU SB9589-15P 137339-009 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY 4264N-15A 137339-010 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=100ns,tCAC=70ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INMOS IMS2600P-10 137339-011 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MOTOROLA MCM6665-15 137339-012 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS 4164-12NL 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 That link on eBay would be what you need. Oh I assumed you were showing me an example of ram chips on the TI side as an example. So these same ram chips work on the 800XL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Old ISA cards used to be a great source for the 4x64k chips as used in XEGS, later XE, and 64K for 600XL upgrade. These days though they'd be harvested, in use by retro collectors or just destroyed so specialist arcade suppliers and eBay auctions are probably the easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 Old ISA cards used to be a great source for the 4x64k chips as used in XEGS, later XE, and 64K for 600XL upgrade. These days though they'd be harvested, in use by retro collectors or just destroyed so specialist arcade suppliers and eBay auctions are probably the easiest. So it's possible these chips may be hard to come by? I just assumed there was a reliable source or two out there since I read threads about bad ram or black screens on XL computers the response is usually to replace the ram. I perhaps improperly assumed that meant replacement chips were easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 It's stuff that was probably not made beyond 1995. Chances are there would be dwindling NOS stocks, and a reasonable supply of salvaged ICs. From what I've seen, prices are mostly affordable. But the price per Megabyte is and will probably stay such that for larger upgrades like 512K upwards it can be cheaper in reasonable volumes to just design and manufacture boards that use modern day SRams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 I wonder if one of the modern ram upgrades might be the better way to go instead of replacing old ram chips with more old ram chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 In the context of reliability I think replacing the rubbish MT that later machines were infested with, with NOS or even used reputable brands of the day is fine. Where the modern day upgrades shine is that they generally eliminate the rats nest of added wiring for some of the upgrades which in themselves become an easy point of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdslx Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 this seller ( http://www.ebay.com/usr/tikma_electronics) has those chips , I bought MN4164P-15A chips from this seller and they work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 BUMP - would these ones from Jameco work? https://www.jameco.com/z/4164-150-Major-Brands-64KX1-DIP-16-DRAM-150NS_41662.html or I found these ones from China on ebay: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10pcs-MN4164P-15A-NMOS-65-536-X-1-BIT-DYNAMIC-RAM-DIP-/252994625515?hash=item3ae7a79feb:g:an4AAOSwIjJZQ5Zh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled_Pink Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 One company I'd recommend if you're willing to buy from China is UTSource. I checked their prices recently and they seem as cheap, and often cheaper, these days as those who are on AliExpress. Whenever I have bought from UTSource in the past, the parts have been well packed and in excellent condition ... obviously NOS. The same can't be said about vendors on AliExpress. A few times I've ended up putting in a claim because the parts were in such poor cosmetic condition. AliExpress vendors tend to just wrap them up in cellophane, which is a pain to extract from the pins without bending or breaking them. https://www.utsource.net/sch/HM4864P-2 - as an example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I bought a nice lot of new "old stock" Texas Instrument chips off ebay for what I considered a great deal. Les than a $1 a chip. http://www.ebay.com/itm/25x-TEXAS-INSTRUMENTS-TMS4164-15NL-16-Pin-Dip-DRAM-New-/332081794334?epid=1801591024&hash=item4d519e0d1e:g:G1sAAOSw44BYbW6C TMS4164-15NL 16-Pin Have you ever put them in an Atari 8-bit computer? If so, did they work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) UTsource, sometimes it's reclaimed stuff though, but it passes all the tests. If anything is wrong, I've had the part replaced or refunded without a hitch.. Edited January 18, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NISMOPC Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Have you ever put them in an Atari 8-bit computer? If so, did they work? Yup! Saved a few 65XE's with these. No reason they shouldn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) AliExpress is good and cheap source for 4164 chips. Edited January 18, 2018 by Wilheim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NISMOPC Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) For reference from approved vendor list that I found (dated Dec. 8th, 2003) ========================================================================= ========================================================================= PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION 137339-001 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY MT4264N-12 137339-002 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin HITACHI_AMERICA_LTD HM4864P-2 137339-003 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INTEL 2164A-15 137339-004 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TOSHIBA TMM4164P-3 137339-005 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin OKI_SEMICONDUCTOR M3764-15 137339-006 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS4164-15NL 137339-007 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU MB8264A-15M 137339-008 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU SB9589-15P 137339-009 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY 4264N-15A 137339-010 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=100ns,tCAC=70ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INMOS IMS2600P-10 137339-011 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MOTOROLA MCM6665-15 137339-012 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS 4164-12NL Edited January 18, 2018 by NISMOPC 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) For reference from approved vendor list that I found (dated Dec. 8th, 2003) ========================================================================= ========================================================================= PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION 137339-001 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY MT4264N-12 137339-002 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin HITACHI_AMERICA_LTD HM4864P-2 137339-003 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INTEL 2164A-15 137339-004 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TOSHIBA TMM4164P-3 137339-005 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin OKI_SEMICONDUCTOR M3764-15 137339-006 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS4164-15NL 137339-007 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU MB8264A-15M 137339-008 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin FUJITSU SB9589-15P 137339-009 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=100ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MICRON_TECHNOLOGY 4264N-15A 137339-010 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=100ns,tCAC=70ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin INMOS IMS2600P-10 137339-011 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=150ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin MOTOROLA MCM6665-15 137339-012 IC,DRAM,64Kx1,tRAC=120ns,tCAC=75ns,NMOS,Tri,16pin TEXAS_INSTRUMENTS TMS 4164-12NL This is a great list, but do some of these require the newer ANTIC? CluaseB was saying that those 64x1s that have 256 cycle refresh, need the new ANTIC. The 400, 800, 1200XL and initial 600/800XLs had the older ANTIC. Later 600/800XL and XEs have the newer ANTIC. Does this list apply to the newer ANTIC? For example: TI TMS4164-15NL are 256 cycle refresh. Will it work in a 1200XL with the older ANTIC? Edited January 19, 2018 by ACML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If you'll use the additional refresh bit circuit to allow for the use of the older ANTIC then yes, they can be used. Otherwise, no. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 If you'll use the additional refresh bit circuit to allow for the use of the older ANTIC then yes, they can be used. Otherwise, no. Thank you for the clarity on this. What I learned; [1] 64Kx1 DRAM with a 256 cycle refresh requires the newer 8 bit (counter) ANTIC. [2] 64Kx1 DRAM with a 128 cycle refresh can use either version of the ANTIC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Without opening the system, is there a way to tell which version of the Antic one has? Of course now that I think of it, if you're trying to replace ram on a black screened 800xl it's a redundant question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 You just repeated the same, same as before. So it sure sounds like you learned nothing from my 'clarity'? You can use either ram with either ANTIC if you will supply a refresh circuit for older ANTIC when using them with 256 cycle refresh ram. AtariLeaf, not redundant at all. Of course, if already under the hood all you need to do is look at the number on it, but as to a way to discover the difference without looking, I do not know of a way. And it's a good question. Refresh bars on the left side of the RF picture can be seen - has anybody counted them in a side by side compare before? I sure haven't, not too sure as to what I'm looking for either. One of those things I never got around to actually doing. Finding an old ANTIC, finding a new ANTIC and the work of recording a difference in the RF screen they make. And I may not understand the issue well enough myself in the first place - the difference may not show itself here as I can only imagine it might. Don't have a working Atari station as it were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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