Terrible classic-era game ideas that should be forgotten

[Flojomojo]

Hardcore Skyrim sounds like hell on earth to me. It's good to have choices.

 

I am trying to get into an MMO called Crusaders of Light that has auto play for the tedious bits -- which, in an MMO, is pretty much everything except a serious dungeon raid -- and it seems like a "good enough" use of my time. Naturally, there are people who want to do all the micromanagement themselves.

 

I remember some people griping about the D&D aspects of KOTOR, the pseudo-turn-based combat with numbers flying around. For me, that's a good middle ground of action and tactics.

[+davidcalgary29]

Terrible: games that allow progression through hazards with randomly-timed hazards, like the rock "islands" in the final sequence of Mask of the Sun.

 

Also not missed: disk-based adventure games that required frequent saves...and frequent re-loading when your character got fried. And games at the end of the 3.5" disk era which came with a crazy amount of floppies (like the Sierra games).

[Flojomojo]

Terrible: games that allow progression through hazards with randomly-timed hazards, like the rock "islands" in the final sequence of Mask of the Sun.

 

Also not missed: disk-based adventure games that required frequent saves...and frequent re-loading when your character got fried. And games at the end of the 3.5" disk era which came with a crazy amount of floppies (like the Sierra games).

So true. I think the industry turned a corner when LucasArts skewered Sierra in Monkey Island. It's an in-joke, but I laughed out loud for a long time over this.

[awhite2600]

Badges and Achievements.

 

Maybe I'm old school, but I'd rather just say that I made it to Level X or got XXXX score. I don't need to earn a badge for collecting 100 stars or mark an achievement for moving the first 5 pixels in a game without getting killed.

[Flojomojo]

Badges and Achievements.

 

Maybe I'm old school, but I'd rather just say that I made it to Level X or got XXXX score. I don't need to earn a badge for collecting 100 stars or mark an achievement for moving the first 5 pixels in a game without getting killed.

What is your policy on leaderboards? High score tables? Should they be reset at the end of the day?

 

[BydoEmpire]

 

 

Pay per play, limited lives, "game over."

This was how most of us started out with video games. We would insert a coin and play until we "died." When home consoles came along, they were their own thing at first, with a timed game (Combat's 2:16 of shooting action) or a win state. Later on, arcade ports aped the arcade style, complete with limited tries and a "game over" screen. That was exciting at first, like having your favorite arcade games at home! I'm gratified to know that the upcoming Mario Odyssey will not have any of this stuff.

Completely disagree. The thing that was cool about that was that the better you got at the game, the longer you could play. That's the motivation! Every game could be the one where you get one level farther. When it started going downhill was when the games basically put a time limit on your quarter. No matter how good you got, you weren't playing more than 3 minutes... then arcade games started sucking. Just my 2c.

Getting the difficulty curve right is tricky. If it gets too hard too fast it's not fun, and if it takes too long to get challenging you end up spending too much time on the boring, "easy" levels. IMHO that's a matter of tuning, not the system itself.

 

I'd rather have the random encounters. With the fixed/shown encounters it just means you always have an encounter in certain areas unless you want to do whatever micro-game element the game expects you to do to avoid them (running past them, hiding, etc) which just wastes time.

Agreed - I like a degree of randomness in games, RPGs included. It's a matter of tuning. Too many random encounters and it gets tedious. Having everything be exactly the same every time is boring.

[Flojomojo]

In theory, procedurally generated games like Roguelikes and No Man's Sky and Spelunky should solve that. In practice, sometimes machine-designed levels are boring.

 

Remember the OTON X, which was supposed to make games for you? The Indiegogo failed so a bunch of the files don't load, but here's a good summary with screenshots.

[awhite2600]

What is your policy on leaderboards? High score tables? Should they be reset at the end of the day?

 

I'm fine with leaderboards and high score tables. As for being reset at the end of the day...that was more of a technology factor in older hardware in the days before flash storage or battery backup.

 

P.S. Love the Seinfeld reference.

[BydoEmpire]

I love joysticks but I hope we've forever abandoned non-ergonomic ones that put too much pressure on your wrists (PainLines, etc).

[mbd30]

That's preferable to replaying the same early parts of a level over and over again, just to die at the hard part. Every time I get sent back to the beginning, I lose a big chunk of motivation to try again.

 

 

Then don't die.

[mbd30]

Badges and Achievements.

 

Maybe I'm old school, but I'd rather just say that I made it to Level X or got XXXX score. I don't need to earn a badge for collecting 100 stars or mark an achievement for moving the first 5 pixels in a game without getting killed.

 

Agree but this idea is more modern era than classic era.

[NE146]

lol you are on the wrong board if 3 lives and game over is something you dislike.

[Video]

Timed missions, and protect missions. In general these things just ruin otherwise good games. If I'm playing anything for action, those two things just throw a hammer into the whole point of the game. If your playing a more casual game, wtf is the point of adding that?

 

Jrpgs. I understand where they come from, system limitations etc. But by even the mid 90's this style of game was obsolete. Before that we played those because its what we had, now days they just serve no purpose. You can get the desirable RPG elements without the slow pacing of a menu system and turn based battle system.

 

Button timing events. I bought (deposit game here) because that's what I wanted, not simon says.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Video

[spacecadet]

Jrpgs. I understand where they come from, system limitations etc. But by even the mid 90's this style of game was obsolete. Before that we played those because its what we had, now days they just serve no purpose. You can get the desirable RPG elements without the slow pacing of a menu system and turn based battle system.

 

JRPG just means "Japanese role playing game". It's not an actual genre. Most of the modern ones don't have the features you dislike anymore, although I dislike "active" battle systems in RPG's (real RPG's that the console RPG genre is based on were always turn-based), so I prefer the older ones in most cases. Most modern JRPG's are not a hell of a lot different from something like Fallout 4, although the characters almost universally have more fabulous hair.

[Tanooki]

Badges and Achievements.

 

Maybe I'm old school, but I'd rather just say that I made it to Level X or got XXXX score. I don't need to earn a badge for collecting 100 stars or mark an achievement for moving the first 5 pixels in a game without getting killed.

 

I can not agree more with this. The fact I couldn't easily disable the damned nuisances in PS3 games when I used it nor on other things for awhile until various systems allowed their notifications to be turned off was just infuriating to me. I've played home consoles since the NES hit me in 1985 Christmas and I've never once felt an undying need to have some video game give me a digital handy for a good job passing a stage, blowing up 3 people with one shot, because I watched a cutscene or some dumb FMV, you fill in the blank. I find it grating and more so I find it pathetic. The fact gamers these days have so little imagination or self worth they have to have the game tell them they did something special so they feel good is awful, and worse that it's broadcast online so you can just find more outlets to brag and be obnoxious.

 

It's like why can't anyone be ...damn I've died 50times in World 4 of Super Mario Bros 1 f**kin Lakitu!, but damnit I DID IT! and be happy? Now it's like 'You found a Mushroom!' or 'Kill three bloopers with fire in World 2-2' here's a silver achievement/trophy. Really?

 

Problem is with including it here, this is a modern thing from the last decade or so.

[phoenixdownita]

 

I can not agree more with this. The fact I couldn't easily disable the damned nuisances in PS3 games when I used it nor on other things for awhile until various systems allowed their notifications to be turned off was just infuriating to me. I've played home consoles since the NES hit me in 1985 Christmas and I've never once felt an undying need to have some video game give me a digital handy for a good job passing a stage, blowing up 3 people with one shot, because I watched a cutscene or some dumb FMV, you fill in the blank. I find it grating and more so I find it pathetic. The fact gamers these days have so little imagination or self worth they have to have the game tell them they did something special so they feel good is awful, and worse that it's broadcast online so you can just find more outlets to brag and be obnoxious.

 

It's like why can't anyone be ...damn I've died 50times in World 4 of Super Mario Bros 1 f**kin Lakitu!, but damnit I DID IT! and be happy? Now it's like 'You found a Mushroom!' or 'Kill three bloopers with fire in World 2-2' here's a silver achievement/trophy. Really?

 

Problem is with including it here, this is a modern thing from the last decade or so.

.... so that's what it was!!!!!! A NES hit you (very hard I must add) in 1985 and you're still recovering ....

 

... but I understand what you mean .... badge for the first pixel painted, the first corner turned, the first crate opened, the first 1 min alive etc...etc.... are just so stoooooopid.

[CatPix]

 

JRPG just means "Japanese role playing game". It's not an actual genre. Most of the modern ones don't have the features you dislike anymore, although I dislike "active" battle systems in RPG's (real RPG's that the console RPG genre is based on were always turn-based), so I prefer the older ones in most cases. Most modern JRPG's are not a hell of a lot different from something like Fallout 4, although the characters almost universally have more fabulous hair.

It's like French fries. Just because it has "Japan" in the name doesn't mean that all RPG Japan made are JRPG, and that RPGS made out of Japan are automatically not JRPG.

JRPG is the name for any RPG game that use those old fashioned scheme of turn based battle, overheard view, and if you're going retro/pixelart, those horrible bubblyhead character whose head is as big as their entire body.

[BydoEmpire]

It's like French fries. Just because it has "Japan" in the name doesn't mean that all RPG Japan made are JRPG, and that RPGS made out of Japan are automatically not JRPG.

JRPG is the name for any RPG game that use those old fashioned scheme of turn based battle, overheard view, and if you're going retro/pixelart, those horrible bubblyhead character whose head is as big as their entire body.

I totally agree. Having played many 8-bit CRPGs prior, my first JRPG was quite a revelation. What do you mean I don't roll my own characters? I have to start with this specific guy? Wow, he has more than 6 hit points and I'm not going to have to play six hours just to get to level 2! IMHO JRPGs are definitely a genre, with specific defining characteristics. All that said, I've gone back to preferring CRPGs.

[Flojomojo]

Western style RPGs are typically more hardcore, stat-based, open world, and JRPGs are more about story and follow a linear path. The distinctions probably don't mean as much as they once did, as everyone borrows from everyone else. I've seen "KRPG" thrown around lately, to describe the distinct flavor of RPGs dished out by Korean developer Kemco.

 

the characters almost universally have more fabulous hair.

 

You're right of course, but I need to know ... when you say fabulous, what exactly do you mean?

 

• informal

  amazingly good; wonderful.

  "a fabulous two-week vacation"
• having no basis in reality; mythical.

  "fabulous creatures"

[spacecadet]

It's like French fries. Just because it has "Japan" in the name doesn't mean that all RPG Japan made are JRPG, and that RPGS made out of Japan are automatically not JRPG.

 

Nonsense. And it's not like french fries at all. French fries doesn't even have to do with the country at all and never did. It's a method of cooking that didn't even come from France.

 

JRPG stands for Japanese role-playing game. That's what it means. It's not just a style of RPG. It is literally just an RPG from Japan. Yes, all RPG's out of Japan are automatically JRPG's. All RPG's from elsewhere are automatically not. Simple!

 

People started using the term because for one thing, in the beginning JRPG's were all in Japanese! Initially these games were largely not even imported into the US. To play them, you needed to know the language. Those who coined the term initially did so to differentiate between RPG's in English and RPG's in Japanese.

 

But when they started to be imported, the term stuck because most of them had certain traits that made them uniquely Japanese. But this was never universal.

 

Some of them still do have common traits, others don't really except for maybe the visual style. But what hasn't changed and will never change is that the "J" in "JRPG" stands for "Japanese", and Japanese means Japanese. You're free to invent your own term for RPG's that have certain traits that you think make them a distinct genre from anywhere in the world, but you can't call them JRPG's anymore than you can call them racing games. That term is taken and already has a specific meaning.

Edited July 28, 2017 by spacecadet

[CatPix]

French fries were named like that because US Soldiers during WWI saw them being made in Belgium, of which half of the population speak French.

They called it French fries, the name stuck. The real origina of French fries is no relevant to the name. Try going around and call them "Belgian fries".

 

In French, brass knuckles are called "American fists" because US soldier in WWI had them. Does that make all of them American?

 

In the same fashion, US football is "American football". Does it become "another football" when it's practiced outside of America?

 

JRPG were first "that flavor of RPG from Japan" but now, they are their own thing. If you make a RPG game that looks, plays, feels like a RPG from Japan, it's a JRPG. The fact that it's not from japan, or that Japanese programmers do other style of RPG doesn't change the meaning of JRPG.

You're totally right, JRPG mean "RPG with a specific gameplay, invented in Japan.

Else, calling all RPG made in Japan JRPG make no sense.

Or else, is Super Mario Bros a Jplatformer?

Is Syberia a FPNC?

Is Miner49er an AmericanArcade?

Naming games from their country of origin is a nonsense in general, unless they are specific.

JRPG are specific, different from other RPG. We call them JRPG because Japan made a speciality of that type of game. Today they no longer have the monopoly on this type of game, and they don't even make only those games.

 

Would you call Fallout 4 a JRPG if it was from Japan? How does that make any kind of sense?

Edited July 28, 2017 by CatPix

[phoenixdownita]

It seems the "French fries" plot thickens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_fries#Etymology

"Thomas Jefferson had "potatoes served in the French manner" at a White House dinner in 1802"
"Some claim that fries originated in Belgium"
"Some people believe that the term "French fries" for deep fried potato batons was introduced when American soldiers arrived in Belgium during World War I"
"Many Americans attribute the dish to France and offer as evidence a notation by U.S. President Thomas Jefferson: "Pommes de terre frites à cru, en petites tranches" ("Potatoes deep-fried while raw, in small slices") in a manuscript in Thomas Jefferson's hand (circa 1801–1809) and the recipe almost certainly comes from his French chef, Honoré Julien."
"By the late 1850s, a cookbook was published that used the term French fried potatoes."


WOW, that's a lot of possibilities.

[jce3000gt]

I second the not having high scores saved, on consoles at least. I'd like my SF2 score on my SNES to be stored in a battery so I can try to beat it. On the PSX when the first Street Fighter Alpha/Zero came out and stored my scores I was blown away and have ever since to try and beat them when go back and play it and SFA3.

[Flojomojo]

CatPix, Phoenix ... I love you both, but you're wrong and Spacecadet is right. They're "frenched" as in

 

When vegetables such as beans, peppers or potatoes are cut into long thin strips, the preparation process refers to the vegetables as being "frenched". To "french" meat is to separate a portion of the meat from the bone, such as a chop or a rib, by cutting the pork from the end of the bone.

 

 

Besides, here in 'Murica we call them Freedom Fries. Fuck yeah!

[RevEng]

The uncertain etymology of French Fries is indeed distressing. Thank goodness we at least know where the word "poutine" came from!

 

What was this thread about, again?

 

The JRPG thing is just a definition disagreement. For some, the style is the core principal. For others, the region and culture can't be divorced from the definition. If you're in one group, you'll never be persuaded with any argument from the other side, because the dividing line is completely arbitrary.

 

This same regional definition disagreement occurs all over the place. Anime comes to mind - there's division over whether an American show in the anime style, like Avatar, is actually anime. Pick your religion if you like, but you're not going to convert anyone.