What Atari sales numbers do we have for their systems? (Research thread)

[DracIsBack]

 

I'm not talking about 1986. I'm talking about throughout their respective lifespans. The NES obviously dominated TV and magazines in terms of coverage, but the SMS had a good amount as well. The 7800 was virtually non-existent in those areas, with just a few notable exceptions. That's the disparity I'm talking about.

 

It's easy to overlook another part of advertising ... retail advertising. Ie. flyers, store displays etc. Flyers often far out distribute retail ads. Atari did seem to spend a fair bit on retail advertising for its systems. In fact, it felt that that was where the bulk of its spend went as opposed to magazine ads/tv ads etc.

[DracIsBack]

These aren't hardware numbers, but I think the fact that there were only 59 licensed Atari 7800 games, while the Sega Master System has 341 games, counts for something. SMS had a "long tail" in Brazil, but both machines looked pretty well dead in the United States by the time the Genesis arrived on the scene.

 

Yeah. The Genesis and Turbografx sucked up a lot of the retail space. Sega tried to release a budget SMS 2 with Alex Kidd as the bundled game (I actually had one) and SMS versions of initial Genesis games but it really didn't last long in North America and then the door was quietly shut on the system. I remember desperately trying to find Sonic and Spider-Man in Canada for it and no dice.

[Lost Dragon]

Random Question, but...

 

When even official sales figures are listed,do they include machines given away during promotional events?.

 

 

Taking the Lynx as an example, Kellogs (The breakfast ceral manufacturers) held a competition to win 1001 lynxes.

 

These are not purchases per say, so would they of been included and should they count in the total number of units sold?.

 

 

Walls Ice Cream were another i remeber Atari teaming up with during the 2600 era.

 

I often see Ex-Atari UK marketing Man Darryl Still talk about sales generated by software bundles for the ST and boosts in sales due to film tie ins etc.

 

But nobody ever seems to ask the impact competition giveaways had, which i find odd as 1 thing Atari is so often criticised for, is lack of advertising and promotion when it comes to it's hardware.

[Bill Loguidice]

Random Question, but...

 

When even official sales figures are listed,do they include machines given away during promotional events?.

 

 

Taking the Lynx as an example, Kellogs (The breakfast ceral manufacturers) held a competition to win 1001 lynxes.

 

These are not purchases per say, so would they of been included and should they count in the total number of units sold?.

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... Wouldn't those type of giveaway numbers basically be rounding errors? If we're talking max in the thousands, rather than a more significant number like tens of thousands, fo giveaways, store displays, etc., does it really add that much to the final figures that are generally rounded off anyway?

[+cvga]

Random Question, but...

 

When even official sales figures are listed,do they include machines given away during promotional events?.

 

 

Taking the Lynx as an example, Kellogs (The breakfast ceral manufacturers) held a competition to win 1001 lynxes.

 

These are not purchases per say, so would they of been included and should they count in the total number of units sold?.

 

 

Walls Ice Cream were another i remeber Atari teaming up with during the 2600 era.

 

I often see Ex-Atari UK marketing Man Darryl Still talk about sales generated by software bundles for the ST and boosts in sales due to film tie ins etc.

 

But nobody ever seems to ask the impact competition giveaways had, which i find odd as 1 thing Atari is so often criticised for, is lack of advertising and promotion when it comes to it's hardware.

 

 

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment... Wouldn't those type of giveaway numbers basically be rounding errors? If we're talking max in the thousands, rather than a more significant number like tens of thousands, fo giveaways, store displays, etc., does it really add that much to the final figures that are generally rounded off anyway?

 

Unless Atari ran the promotion, those giveaways would have likely counted in the sales totals anyhow. Just because it was free to a Kellogg's customer doesn't mean that no one purchased it.

[Lost Dragon]

I never see the promotional giveaways Atari and it's advertising partners ran really touched upon from a UK perspective let alone global, so it's hard to gauge just what percentage of a platforms total sales were in part due to them.

 

In cases of systems like the 2600, i would assume they'd be miniscule to the point of barely worth including, but the more troubled systems like the Lynx and Jaguar, they might have a bigger influence?.

 

 

The Kellogs give away was the first i am aware of to promise so many machines up for grabs.

 

Magazine competitions etc usually offered readers the chance to win one of single digit numbers of machines on offer.

 

Just thought it might make for a new line of questioning if Ex-Atari marketing people are interviewed in the future.

 

I think by now the likes of Darryl Still have firmly established what a mammoth task it was to try and market the Jaguar with such a small team and limited budget, the long term effect of bundling the ST with so much free software, etc etc.

 

It'd be nice to hear how Atari came to partner with it's promotional partners and what effect it had compared to say TV advertising, was it more cost effective for them etc?.

 

It'd just be nice to see familar faces asked some new questions and i am sure they'd welcome some as well.

 

[CatPix]

Unless Atari ran the promotion, those giveaways would have likely counted in the sales totals anyhow. Just because it was free to a Kellogg's customer doesn't mean that no one purchased it.

Indeed. They probably get them at discount price because it's also a sort of promotion of the system, but they are not gifts.

And even if they were, those units moved from "inventory" to "customer" so they would be considered sold, just sold at total loss, and not "gone from inventory".

Also, as said, those figures would be neglictible, unless we talk about sales for a year or for a specific place... or a system that sold poorly like the Jaguar, where figures are sketchy and unclear, like this quote :

 

From the introduction of Jaguar in late 1993 through the end of 1995, Atari sold approximately 125,000 units of Jaguar. As of December 31, 1995, Atari had approximately 100,000 units of Jaguar in inventory.

 

Officially, the Jaguar was retired in 1996. When? and did they manage to sell those inventory? (as opposed to brokers selling those unsold units after Atari was merged).

Also, if we consider that the Jaguar was sold in the US, Europe and Japan, this is a case where having precise numbers matters

(Japan : 5 units sold. That would be amusing.)

Edited February 14, 2019 by CatPix

[Lost Dragon]

It's just an area that never really seems to get the same degree of coverage the way for example the software bundles during the ST era receive. .The Discovery and Power Packs for example.

 

 

Atari often pointed to how they prefered to use very limited advertising budgets to run adverts in magazines and comics compared to TV advertising. .

 

But the subject of how they decided on consumer tie in based advertising never really gets looked at.

 

 

A handful of VCS units given away by Walls Ice Cream doesn't warrant much more than a footnote, but it must of had some effect or why return to that aspect and offer far higher volumes of units, when approaching Kellogs to ensure the Lynx would be featured on so many UK Breakfast cerals? .

 

I remember the promotion on boxes of that awful Start, sports based ceral, but would assume it was running across all of the Kellogs range at that time.

 

You received a Lynx pin badge just for entering if my hazy memory is correct.

 

I don't remember Atari trying anything similar (numbers wise espically) for the XEGS or Jaguar..

 

There were 800XL's, ST's, Jaguar's, Lynxes etc up for grabs in very small numbers in compos run by UK comics like Eagle and 2000AD and various games based magazines but i cannot remember anything else quite like the Lynx and Kellogs promotions. .

 

But it's been a lot of years past

[+davidcalgary29]

It's just an area that never really seems to get the same degree of coverage the way for example the software bundles during the ST era receive. .The Discovery and Power Packs for example.

 

 

Atari often pointed to how they prefered to use very limited advertising budgets to run adverts in magazines and comics compared to TV advertising. .

 

But the subject of how they decided on consumer tie in based advertising never really gets looked at.

 

 

A handful of VCS units given away by Walls Ice Cream doesn't warrant much more than a footnote, but it must of had some effect or why return to that aspect and offer far higher volumes of units, when approaching Kellogs to ensure the Lynx would be featured on so many UK Breakfast cerals? .

 

I remember the promotion on boxes of that awful Start, sports based ceral, but would assume it was running across all of the Kellogs range at that time.

 

You received a Lynx pin badge just for entering if my hazy memory is correct.

 

I don't remember Atari trying anything similar (numbers wise espically) for the XEGS or Jaguar..

 

There were 800XL's, ST's, Jaguar's, Lynxes etc up for grabs in very small numbers in compos run by UK comics like Eagle and 2000AD and various games based magazines but i cannot remember anything else quite like the Lynx and Kellogs promotions. .

 

But it's been a lot of years past

 

Atari's consumer contests/promotions could probably be the subject matter of another thread (and may have been). Atari Canada ran innumerable ST contests with Smarties and Kit-Kats. I must have submitted about fifty entries, but didn't win anything. Atari had long-running contests in association with the widely-circulated Toronto Sun. And there was also a ST contest on an easy listening station around the same time, but I didn't win anything in that, either, although I was sure I was the only audience member who must have known what an ST was.

 

Atari Canada had a few Lynx promotions, but I don't recall seeing anything for the Jaguar.

[Lost Dragon]

Really appreciate the Atari Canada Promotional info.

 

Only other UK ones that spring to mind:

 

Colgate Toothpaste via it's Paint-A-Poster compo..16 VCS systems on offer.

 

Finders (Boys leather shoes).. Looked like just 1 VCS on offer judging by advert :-))

 

Weetabix:100 VCS units with Pac-man up for grabs.

 

Walls Ice Cream..come up with original name for an ice lolly inspired by video games..win 1 of 100 VCS systems.

 

Focus seemed to be on getting VCS then Lynx in homes via these compos.

[godslabrat]

Extra credit to you all for turning a Biff thread into something actually useful.

[Lost Dragon]

Extra credit to you all for turning a Biff thread into something actually useful.

:-))

 

I've just gotten bored of the same old Atari related subjects being thrown about, especially from a UK perspective.

 

Since Darryl Still seems to be the only Atari UK P.R manager that can be found, the poor soul gets asked the same Q's every time.

 

Thought if nothing else he might want to be asked about something a bit new,if obscure,when it came to Atari and it's marketing approach.

 

As for Kellogs Start though..bleugh.. Wretched ceral.

 

Designed to improve performance at sports..replaced last year with a Cars 3 ceral :-))

Edited February 15, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

Necrobump after reading a few new to me interviews with Bob Gleadow Atari UK MD and Sam Tramiel, from back in the day.. 

 

They and other P. R statements by Atari at the time, really highlight the issues facing documenting actual sales figures. 

 

Magazines like Retrogamer use Darryl Still as a sole source of information on the Lynx for example, yet Atari UK Sales Director, Peter Staddon never used as a source. 

 

 

 

Peter was there from the launch of the Lynx, was the person giving comments about how Lynx sales had been 'very encouraging'  since Atari cut the price from £179 to £129...but still wouldn't give actual sales figures. 

 

 

Bob Gleadow arrived at Atari UK in October 1986...

 

 

In an interview of Autumn 1991,focusing on the ST, he's all over the place with figures. 

 

 

Talks of 30,000 ST machines being SHIPPED by end of '86

 

 

ST picking up steam in' 87

 

Sales in '88 being slowed dramatically by the world wide D-Ram shortages (having earlier stated it'd disturb but not damage ST sales)... 

 

Then he jumps to 1990,saying ST sales were flat (150,000 sold) and that Atari had run short of ST' s in '89.

 

Claims sales for 1991 of 50,000 ST's with Atari expecting to sell a further 130,000 throughout Autumn/Winter.. 

 

Sam Tramiel is even worse.. 

 

The STE he said, gave European ST sales a bit of a boost and had Atari enthusiasts in the USA very excited... 

 

Stacey was doing very well... 

 

 

The Lynx was going to do very very well for Atari, Atari planning to shift between 500-700,000 machines in 1990.

 

 

Later interview saw him say by end of 1991 Atari would have sold around 800,000 machines, it was on projection, the MKII Lynx would see sales pick up. 

He never directly answers the question of how many units have actually been sold.. 

 

It's always talk of doing well, on target.. and then straight into bashing rival hardware. 

 

The Gameboy sucks.. 

 

When Madonna did a world tour and reached Japan, her PC's and Macs broke down, but the Stacey kept on going. 

 

The A3000 was a joke compared to the TT, flickered like crazy in High  Res mode, TT was rock solid. 

 

 

 

When Commodore annouced it had sold 200,000 A500 machines, Atari cried foul saying they were 'padding' the figures and Atari estimated actual Amiga sales to be around 140,000 and by contrast Atari had surpassed it's target UK ST user base of 250,000 and had to fly in ST"s from Taiwan to met demand. 

 

 

There was a call for the industry to dig deep and pay for proper, independent market research and there to be  an independent audit body, which could monitor distribution numbers and validate actual sales figures. 

 

People were having to take manufacturing claims on good faith. 

 

And now because there was never an audit body and writers are going off vague memories from single sources and piecemeal scraps of documentation, a lot of speculation is being recorded as fact. 

[Lost Dragon]

Also found Laurence Siegel (Atari Entertainment Division) talking Lynx sales. 

 

Starts off well, saying 500,00 sold worldwide in 1990...

 

Then goes onto say in 1991,Atari would do somewhat more, company was selling all the machines it could make. 

 

Then starts talking software, more than 50 titles to be available by end of 1991 as Atari preparing for the SNES more than the GB. 

 

 

Yet GB was in direct competition with Lynx... ?

[Lostdragon]

Necrobumping this thread in order to point out there were a good few sources from Atari UK, who might have been able to assist with UK Lynx sales, other than Darryl Still. 

 

As well as Bob Gleadow, Atari UK MD, sources like.:

 

Peter Staddon,whom Darryl replaced as Marketing Manager and also Matthew Brown, Lynx Product Manager, who's role Darryl also took on at the same time. 

 

 

Magazines like RetroGamer were far too quick to take the claims of single sources, going along with suggested sales numbers, as fact. 

 

I'd loved to of read insights from Bob, Peter and Matthew regarding the Lynx, but never saw them used as sources. 

[Lostdragon]

Necrobump, but having just finished reading Karl Morris's excellent book on the Atari Lynx.. 

 

Pete Mortimer of Telegames interviewed. 

 

He again makes clear there were never any official total Lynx sales figures given by Atari, he personally  thinks sales might of been near the high end 3 million claim, but doesn't even have software sales figures for their own titles on Lynx. 

 

Would be difficult to find actual number, but thinks it might be around 200,000..

 

 

I've no idea why magazines like Retrogamer allowed writers to run figures like 3,000 units sold, as FACT, when it's really just speculation and best guessing. 

 

We've said it time and time again, Atari were loathe to release actual sales figures for hardware. 

[Lostdragon]

On 9/1/2017 at 12:07 AM, jhd said:

Back in the early-1980s, the business press often reported approximate/estimated market share data for Atari (and its competitors), but I cannot recall having seen any hard production or sales numbers. I do not have my notes handy, but I can to see what specifically was reported, if that is of any value.

 

Frankly, I would be surprised if a company was willing to publicly release this information.

John Skruch joins the list of those already mentioned, giving numbers, but not actual numbers. 

 

I have seen him quoted as saying the 800XL sold almost 500,000 units through 1984 (I assume he meant in the USA),... 

 

But it's not a verified number, doesn't state if that was to consumers or retailers..