Dropcheck Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I'm done with the first attempt to trace the board. I'll let it rest for a day or so then recheck all connections. I find when I have chips on both sides of the board that it's best to do at minimum three whole pin to pin checks. I always seem to 'find' mistakes. So has anyone discovered a socketed mystery chip in their P:R device? I don't want to try desoldering the PLCC chip if I don't have to, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 So far not a peep from the guy I contacted that should have all of the IP on this device. If by some miracle we connect up, I'll be sure to ask him for the Rockwell chip datasheet so that the IO assignments can be determined. Because nothing I've found in the wild matches up with it being in a 44 pin SMD package. Sounds good. IMHO this Rockwell-chip is something like a PIC or ATmega today - I would wonder if Rockwell "just" uses his 6507 CPU and 6532 RIOT, mix them together with a ROM for the firmware and that´s all. So the most important part is the firmware itself. The hardware could be replaced by an ATmega or similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 So has anyone discovered a socketed mystery chip in their P:R device? I don't want to try desoldering the PLCC chip if I don't have to, As has been previously discussed, it is most likely a custom made chip for ICD based on the Rockwell microcontroller. There is really no sense in trying to build a new board around it, because quite frankly you will probably never find a source for it. On the other hand if the code that runs inside it could be extracted or someone drops the original source code in our laps, then something like a 6507, 6532, and an EPROM could be utilised to run it pretty much as is, aside from some code tweaking as to how stuff gets remapped in memory. Otherwise as tf_hh suggested, you could start over completely with a modern and readily available microcontroller chip, but that of course would require a lot of new code to make it fly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 As has been previously discussed, it is most likely a custom made chip for ICD based on the Rockwell microcontroller. There is really no sense in trying to build a new board around it, because quite frankly you will probably never find a source for it. I'm not sure it was really a custom made chip. It was probably just a custom masked rom. But even then, it wouldn't change too much the situation. On the other hand if the code that runs inside it could be extracted It is always possible. "Just" need to decap one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 I'm not sure it was really a custom made chip. It was probably just a custom masked rom. But even then, it wouldn't change too much the situation. Yes I agree. Although the SMD package did not appear to be the standard way they packaged their microcontroller offerings at that time period. Or at least I haven't found any datasheets that match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just to continue a completely useless endeavor( ) I've finished a second retrace. I'll start the final one this morning. Now that I have some confidence in the tracings I can start labeling some of the pins of the mystery chip with their obvious functions. Without more info, I doubt I'll de solder the chip. There's just two much potential for toasting it. But at least we'll have a schematic ready to go to make a replacement board if more info comes in later. Once I've done the third retrace I'll post the schematic here. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 As promised: Here's the preliminary schematic of the ICD P:R connection device. I say preliminary because at this time I have not verified it by making a clone board and populating it and testing for function. It would help if someone else also could trace their board and verify my work. I could always have made a mistake. ICDPRConnection.pdf 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The pinouts of the microcontroller look like a match for the 44-pin PLCC version of the R6500/1 from the 1987 Rockwell Controller Products Databook. https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_rockwelldaControllerProductsDatabook_44977877 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) If I am not mistaken this appears to be a metal mask programmed chip... it would require the program data to be extracted and then written to the same series chip that allows for otp or other method to make more chips. What really gets me is the chip appears to have been full flow control capable and still wasn't implemented completely yet again... My eyesight not being the best anymore... can you confirm the rom type? I doubt we could get more manufactured, but the minimum quantity for such a run would indicate there must be a pile of these already made and sitting somewhere in the USA... If my assumption is correct, making your own fully decked out version on another chip entirely might serve to make a full featured interface... Edited November 30, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 It doesn't seem to specify the exact rom type, but I'm not sure it is metal mask. Whatever, metal or silicon, it is mask programmed. May be another question to ask to Mr. Gustafson? : http://atariage.com/forums/topic/257373-spartados-early-versions/page-4?do=findComment&comment=4165638 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The pinouts of the microcontroller look like a match for the 44-pin PLCC version of the R6500/1 from the 1987 Rockwell Controller Products Databook. r6500-1.png https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_rockwelldaControllerProductsDatabook_44977877 If that is true, then there is a way to 'read' the rom on the 40 pin DIP version. It ain't easy, but it has been done. http://e4aws.silverdr.com/hacks/6500_1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 If that is true, then there is a way to 'read' the rom on the 40 pin DIP version. It ain't easy, but it has been done. http://e4aws.silverdr.com/hacks/6500_1/ Oh yeah! I remember watching a fascinating youtube video of a presentation by Jim Brain about exactly this at VCF MW: https://youtu.be/U6eUAXNGW9M He's the guy behind Retro Innovations, (maker of the 2364 adapter I like) maybe he'd be willing to use his existing tools to dump our chip. Contact form here: http://www.go4retro.com/contact-us/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) That's the guy I had do a R6500/1 dump of the MicroStuffer device. He's kinda setup to do 40pin DIP. So I guess I'd have to cobble together a PLCC to DIp adapter. Or find one on the net. updated schematic: ICDPRConnection2.pdf Edited December 1, 2018 by Dropcheck 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) On second checking I wonder it is really the R6510 mpu? Edited December 1, 2018 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I think I have to label the mystery chip as the R6510 chip and so I've decided to make the 'final' change to the schematic to reflect that. I'll get the adapter designed later tonight and post it either tonight or in the morning. ICDPRConnection3.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Here's the schematic and gerber files for the adapter. Adapter.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Found my P:R:C today. It is Rev3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Looks like they may have added additional circuitry for revision 4. Perhaps for stability or compatiblity's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 How does the case open? I'll pop mine open tomorrow and take a look at the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 How does the case open? I'll pop mine open tomorrow and take a look at the board. Just 4 plain phillips screws to open the case, and you're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Some final changes. Sorry....... I think I have to label the mystery chip as the R6510 chip and so I've decided to make the 'final' change to the schematic to reflect that. I'll get the adapter designed later tonight and post it either tonight or in the morning. I decided to let the last trace out of board connections rest for a few weeks. Then I did one final trace to see if I came away with any differences. Sad to say I did at least on the parallel connector. There were some simple cosmetic changes to how I described other connections as well. So delete any previous P:R board schematic you have from me. Here's the schematic and gerber files for the adapter. Delete this adapter file from your computer. The 6500/1 and R65C10 chips appear to be different enough that there is not a one to one correlation in pins. The R65C10 is the CMOS version but appears not to have a reset option for ROM dumping. ICDPRConnection01062019.pdf Edited January 6, 2019 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.