Video Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Don't think there was reviews back when I bought mine in the early 2k era, but reviews would help people make choices for purchases. On the other hand, most are available as ROMs so you can play yourself and see if you would like to purchase. I need to get back into homebrew again, I've enjoyed the ones I've purchased, just had other things hogging my money. I love go fish and want that with the save key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I made a suggestion, several years ago, to post a "milestone icon" next to big seller's. This would be an immediate indicator of popularity. For instance, if a game sells 300 copies, the game could be rewarded with a bronze Atariage symbol. 400 copies - silver, 500 - gold. I will admit, that I have no idea "how many" constitutes a "big seller" - maybe start at 100? Anyway, this would supplement the written review system. As Thomas points out you can currently sort currently by popularity, but I wanted to reply to comment on the validity of the popularity approach; it's fairly skewed. Some games were sold outside of the AA store prior to being added (I think the subscriber pre-sales also fall under this category), some games were/are offered in 2 store entries, etc. Looking at the popularity sort for 2600 games, I see that Sticky Notes is more popular than QB. While that's likely true for the store sales, I doubt it's really the case for most people's working definition of "popular". I personally like to see how my games are doing in the popularity sort, but I don't kid myself that it's not a cooked rating. I'm also not sure it's a good idea to try and boost a game that may be older, and had a less crowded market under which to accumulate purchases, vs a new game that might be subjectively better for the purchaser. I would love to see store software with more emphasis on the reviewer. I follow Nathan's reviews intently, as they're insightful and honest. I'd feel less so about someone that gives 5/5 to everything they've purchased. It would be great to sort by my favourite reviewers, or to give them heavier weights in average review scores. Speaking of reviews, my personal thanks go out to NintenCade360 for breaking the long zero-review streak for The Byte Before Christmas. Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) QB was withdrawn from the store by the author for a while before it returned. So it looks like the sales number was reset then. And probably people now think that it is a bad game, which it definitely is not. For the 5/5 problem, I would suggest that all points are accumulated into a total value with some extra maths. Example: In the voting range of 1..5 points, 3.01 would be the average Reviewer A gives 3.0 points on average, while reviewer B gives 4.5 points on average Now we divide the averages. This means each point from A is worth 1.0 (3.0/3.0) points, but from B only 0.666...(3.0/4.5) points. If now both provide 4 points to a game, the accumulated points are worth (4*1.0 + 4*0.666...)/2 = 3.333... points So the average for the game would be 3.3/5.0. 1 for simplicity only; we should adjust the 3.0 to the average of all reviews; which is 4.57(!) for Atari 2600 homebrews. Edited August 20, 2017 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cvga Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 QB was withdrawn from the store by the author for a while before it returned. So it looks like the sales number was reset then. And probably people now think that it is a bad game, which it definitely is not. For the 5/5 problem, I would suggest that all points are accumulated into a total value with some extra maths. Example: In the voting range of 1..5 points, 3.01 would be the average Reviewer A gives 3.0 points on average, while reviewer B gives 4.5 points on average Now we divide the averages. This means each point from A is worth 1.0 (3.0/3.0) points, but from B only 0.666...(3.0/4.5) points. If now both provide 4 points to a game, the accumulated points are worth (4*1.0 + 4*0.666...)/2 = 3.333... points So the average for the game would be 3.3/5.0. 1 for simplicity only; we should adjust the 3.0 to the average of all reviews. I'm not a fan of that scoring system for multiple reasons.... There won't be enough reviews for a given game or from a given reviewer to make that type of scoring credible Not everyone reviews the same games. It's possible that I could only purchase the best games and legitimately give them high scores while someone else legitimately scores poor games lower. In that situation, their score of a 4 gets more merit than my score of a 4 on the same game. People that tend to give lower scores in general will have reviews that get receive more weight in the overall scoring. I would not be a fan of that. Every game's rating will be affected each time any game is reviewed. If I buy a game, really like it and give it a 5, every other game I've ever reviewed will have it's aggregate score decreased. Similarly, anyone else who has reviewed the same game that I reviewed will see every game that they've ever reviewed move up a little. I love the reviews but care more about what people write than what the final score is (unless they give it a low score). I have no problems with people buying games they think they will like and subsequently giving them high ratings if they enjoyed playing them. Maybe the ratings system should go from 1 to 10 if we really want to see separation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I'm not a big fan of that arbitrary scoring system, either. And I agree with cvga, I think reading the reviews provides more insight than the score itself. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Agreed. But then we could remove the scoring completely. IMO, as it is now, it's not really worth a lot (with a few exceptions) and the results are less good than no results at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) I'm not a fan of that scoring system for multiple reasons.... There won't be enough reviews for a given game or from a given reviewer to make that type of scoring credible Not everyone reviews the same games. It's possible that I could only purchase the best games and legitimately give them high scores while someone else legitimately scores poor games lower. In that situation, their score of a 4 gets more merit than my score of a 4 on the same game. People that tend to give lower scores in general will have reviews that get receive more weight in the overall scoring. I would not be a fan of that. Every game's rating will be affected each time any game is reviewed. If I buy a game, really like it and give it a 5, every other game I've ever reviewed will have it's aggregate score decreased. Similarly, anyone else who has reviewed the same game that I reviewed will see every game that they've ever reviewed move up a little. I love the reviews but care more about what people write than what the final score is (unless they give it a low score). I have no problems with people buying games they think they will like and subsequently giving them high ratings if they enjoyed playing them. Maybe the ratings system should go from 1 to 10 if we really want to see separation. To cover your points There would be no scores displayed until a certain number of reviews. Yup, that's a problem. But my math was only an example, maybe something more clever could be developed That's the core idea. If people always give 5/5 points, those reviews are (not only IMO) less worth than reviews from people who use the full range. That was the problem this math is addressing Yup, the scoring is dynamic. But IMO that would be no problem, as the scores have to be seen in relation, not absolute. Yes, the written comments are what should count. Maybe they would become even better, if there would be no scores at all? And yes, 1..10 would be better. Edited August 20, 2017 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cvga Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 People who always give a 5 are already creating a situation where there score doesn't count as much. For example, if there are 3 of us who give reviews for three games and 2 people give all 5's but I give one game a 5, one a 4 and the other 3, my scores are the only ones that determined which game was rated the highest. I could already claim that my review counted more without any special math. We could create a 'review crew' that would be willing to force rank each game and provide a few comments. That would provide some standardization and allow comparisons between games if you're looking to see how a game ranks compared to other games you already own or see which game the crew prefers between titles you might be considering to purchase. Alternatively, I think there's a homebrew Top 10 list that people can check out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I tried putting in reviews several years ago for a couple games but had problems of some kind. It crashed or something.. I should try again and see if there is any change. I have problaby 25-30 homebrews so could take awhile also have not played a few of them recently.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I tried putting in reviews several years ago for a couple games but had problems of some kind. It crashed or something.. I should try again and see if there is any change. I have problaby 25-30 homebrews so could take awhile also have not played a few of them recently.. It should work fine. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 People who always give a 5 are already creating a situation where there score doesn't count as much. For example, if there are 3 of us who give reviews for three games and 2 people give all 5's but I give one game a 5, one a 4 and the other 3, my scores are the only ones that determined which game was rated the highest. I could already claim that my review counted more without any special math. We could create a 'review crew' that would be willing to force rank each game and provide a few comments. That would provide some standardization and allow comparisons between games if you're looking to see how a game ranks compared to other games you already own or see which game the crew prefers between titles you might be considering to purchase. Alternatively, I think there's a homebrew Top 10 list that people can check out. I think it would be better to lock all of the homebrewers in a room and the last one that is still alive at the end of an hour will have only his or her games sold in the AtariAge store. All other games will be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I just added reviews for all the 5200 games I've played but didn't previously review. I wish the AA community would support the 5200 side of things more. I see the 7800 and some 2600 titles have review counts over 20! That's great. But I think the highest 5200 review count is the wonderful Tempest, with only 7 reviews. I will say that I didn't give them all an Automatic 5-stars review either. I didn't review Ratcatcher yet because I haven't taken it out of the box yet (my 5200 is packed away right now). But I will. I don't know how well the 7800 games sold, but (for example) 5200 Adventure II sold in the hundreds, not to mention you can play the ROM version of the game. Yet only 5 reviews. I'm sure this is how Thomas and other homebrewers have felt over the years, checking back now and then and ... no feedback at all! oh well. I'll add more 2600 and 7800 reviews before end of August, but I need to play them some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 We're now up to 47 reviews added to the store since August 17th. Thanks everyone! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I think it would be better to lock all of the homebrewers in a room and the last one that is still alive at the end of an hour will have only his or her games sold in the AtariAge store. All other games will be removed. My money is on Thomas. His ruthless German efficiency should be more than sufficient to vanquish any rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) I am a ruthless, efficient pacifist. Edited August 21, 2017 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd-w Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I am a ruthless, efficient pacifist. It should be a coding battle - tightest kernel wins. Thomas will have the best code, but Darrell and I will cheat and use the ARM Chris 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Kernel? Just use antic and a couple display lists! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 It should be a coding battle - tightest kernel wins. Thomas will have the best code, but Darrell and I will cheat and use the ARM Chris His Shaolin Temple style defeats your Monkey Style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I wouldn't want to fight Thomas. He is such a nice guy! Votes are always subjective and thus can't be properly normalized. They still give a clue if buyers/players are happy or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Instead of a base 5* review, how about a segmented one? Like have an over all, based on multiple scores? Graphics, gameplay, sound, etc. For instance, I like jammed, great game, a base over all I'd give it a 5, but compartmentally I'd rate graphics low, as only your car looks like anything, and sound? Uh, no. Nice ditty, but fairly basic, so if you took my thoughts on various aspects, I love it but it would get an overall in the 3.5-4 range. Kind of a context thing. Just an over all rating, I'd rate higher cause I like it, or lower cause I don't, and like or dislike is all a single rating will go on, and not necessarily reflect a games true nature. With multiple ratings, you get different ratings cause I like a game, but the graphics are bad, or hate a game, but got to admit the graphics are amazing. (Or sound, or whatever) Edited August 21, 2017 by Video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 QB was withdrawn from the store by the author for a while before it returned. So it looks like the sales number was reset then. And probably people now think that it is a bad game, which it definitely is not. Qb is amazing! I wish there was a box to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Nothing wrong with that, Video. As long as you describe your thoughts like that. IMO you don't need any score then. Scores are for people who are too lazy to read and understand reviews. E.g. Jammed was definitely not designed to look or sound outstanding. It was an attempt to squeeze in as many puzzles (600) into 4K with an adequate UI. So its perfect from a programmers perspective, but probably not that good for players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 E.g. Jammed was definitely not designed to look or sound outstanding. It was an attempt to squeeze in as many puzzles (600) into 4K with an adequate UI. So its perfect from a programmers perspective, but probably not that good for players. RE: Jammed, I consider it a great value, if you are into puzzle type games. There are so many screens. The only thing missing is a box. I have a few boxed Xype games. I'd like to get them all boxed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Bumping the thread, just in case you (yes, you!) forgot to post your review(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Tarzilla Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Bumping the thread, just in case you (yes, you!) forgot to post your review(s). I did leave some, they haven't been approved. For instance LEM, at the top it says 2 reviews but only 1 is visible to the public 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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