Atari 130 XE Cheap-A$$ Construction

[+toddtmw]

Okay, I've always known the 130XE's were cheap. I hear all the things people say about them, but I just opened one up for the first time, and ... wow.

 

The case and keyboard are held together by 4 screws.

 

The bottom RF shield doesn't have the little thin piece of cardboard to keep the pins from shorting to the shield. The board just feels flimsier, I was shocked they wasted 8 screws holding the board in.

 

It's a wonder any of these even work anymore.

 

Was the Commodore 64 constructed so cheaply? I mean, I get the impression the reason they went so cheap was to compete with Commodore. How did Commodore undercut Atari so much if they did not use similar cheap construction?

 

-Todd

[+doctorclu]

Friend of mine had a 65XE once and that computer literally flew apart from use.

[+toddtmw]

I mean, I've heard of cutting corners, but Tramiel cut complete neighborhoods...

[Rybags]

It's not that bad... the PCB is the worrying part though.

In the modern day such construction is par for the course. With something like a PVR the board will be screwed into standoffs that are part of the case base. Buttons are usually part of a single casting and activate cheap-arsed microswitches.

 

Commodore was able to manufacture cheaply thanks to vertical integration. If you have your own chip fab then there's a big fraction of your machine that doesn't have a supplier's margin tacked on.

[+davidcalgary29]

I feel worse for the users who got stuck with the 800XE with the buggy GTIA.

[Rybags]

I've got one... but the rarity of the machine makes it worth it.

[flashjazzcat]

XEs are fine, apart from some especially bad PCBs with very delicate traces. I have a bunch of XLs and XEs and the failure rate after thirty-odd years is more or less equal. XE keyboards suffer from Mylar failures, but XL keyboards suffer from Mylar, switch and flex failures too. Apart from the especially shitty XE PCBs (very dark green with crappy traces), XEs are no more difficult to work on and no more prone to damage from desoldering, etc. The lack of sockets on the XEs is an inconvenience, but many 800XLs didn't have sockets either. XEs are much easier to work on in one sense, since the keyboard can be properly positioned without refitting the top case. PCB heft and thickness is the same on the XL and XE. Soldered-on dead MT DRAMs on the XE are one of the biggest irritations.

 

Sure, I prefer XLs, but at the end of the day, if 130XEs were uniformly complete trash, I guess none of them would be working thirty years after they were manufactured.

[Marius]

I feel worse for the users who got stuck with the 800XE with the buggy GTIA.

 

Not all 800XE have buggy GTIA, and some 65XE and 130XE had buggy GTIA too.

 

I have a 1985 800XE which is excellent.

[Marius]

Okay, I've always known the 130XE's were cheap. I hear all the things people say about them, but I just opened one up for the first time, and ... wow.

 

The case and keyboard are held together by 4 screws.

 

The bottom RF shield doesn't have the little thin piece of cardboard to keep the pins from shorting to the shield. The board just feels flimsier, I was shocked they wasted 8 screws holding the board in.

 

It's a wonder any of these even work anymore.

 

Was the Commodore 64 constructed so cheaply? I mean, I get the impression the reason they went so cheap was to compete with Commodore. How did Commodore undercut Atari so much if they did not use similar cheap construction?

 

-Todd

 

Well you say it yourself: the computers do still operate after 30+ years. I love them - a lot! - ...

 

 

Please take in mind that it's exact what people tend to say when they compared 800xl to the Atari 800.

[+Faicuai]

Okay, I've always known the 130XE's were cheap. I hear all the things people say about them, but I just opened one up for the first time, and ... wow.

 

The case and keyboard are held together by 4 screws.

 

The bottom RF shield doesn't have the little thin piece of cardboard to keep the pins from shorting to the shield. The board just feels flimsier, I was shocked they wasted 8 screws holding the board in.

 

It's a wonder any of these even work anymore.

 

Was the Commodore 64 constructed so cheaply? I mean, I get the impression the reason they went so cheap was to compete with Commodore. How did Commodore undercut Atari so much if they did not use similar cheap construction?

 

-Todd

 

Correct.

 

What you see is EXACTLY what you get. :-(

 

Besides the original 800 and 800 XLs, I also got my hands on a 130XE in need of repair.

 

Anything XE belongs to Tramiel's era (Atari last-and-final wave of production). Cheap construction, cost-cutting-to-the-bone was the main-and-only the order of the day. LONG gone are the days of Sunnyvale / "Jay-Miner era" quality, and these XEs are just a FAR cry, in terms of overall quality. It seems to have inherited all the traits of the Commodore-64, which looks (and structurally feels) like a kids' toy next to a 800, Apple II, etc.

 

There is NOTHING in the XE line, for instance, as a Rev-C Atari 800XL (fully socketed) with high-quality ALPS keyboard. Zero. And MUCH less the original, "Made in USA" Atari 800 quality, with specially-finished, "anodized" black external screws, and fully-socketed / high-quality internals, that are easy to work with, for maintenance purposes.

 

Long gone, too, is that 130XE I once get for repairs. Not my cup of tea, though.

[Gunstar]

Yep, cheap as hell. But that's exactly what I could afford back in the day, and all I cared about were the custom chips and 128K memory of the 130XE when all other systems with that kind of memory were much more expensive. But once I found out that an XL upgraded to 256K with Rambo was 99.99% compatible with expanded memory capable software (only a couple of incompatible demos since Antic/CPU halt thing was never REALLY used)), I sold off my 130XE and got a solidly built 1200XL with Rambo memory. The difference in the keyboards alone is a revelation, from worst in the industry (outside of touch/chicklet keyboards) to one of the best! Not quite "tank" like as the 800, but still slightly better than the later XL's, certainly a world away from the cheap 130XE. But, as stated, XE's are lasting 30+ years, so far, with a little tender-loving care and repair.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Gunstar

[brenski]

i agree they're cheap design - pretty much what Tramiel era was about. But there's also something about them - they certainly look more "space age" than the XL range.

[Gunstar]

i agree they're cheap design - pretty much what Tramiel era was about. But there's also something about them - they certainly look more "space age" than the XL range.

They certainly would have fit the set of Red Dwarf better than the Vic20/C64's they did use...

Edited August 22, 2017 by Gunstar

[BillC]

Okay, I've always known the 130XE's were cheap. I hear all the things people say about them, but I just opened one up for the first time, and ... wow.

 

The case and keyboard are held together by 4 screws.

 

The bottom RF shield doesn't have the little thin piece of cardboard to keep the pins from shorting to the shield. The board just feels flimsier, I was shocked they wasted 8 screws holding the board in.

 

It's a wonder any of these even work anymore.

 

Was the Commodore 64 constructed so cheaply? I mean, I get the impression the reason they went so cheap was to compete with Commodore. How did Commodore undercut Atari so much if they did not use similar cheap construction?

 

-Todd

My brother told me about a stereo store, that also sold computers in the 80s, that a friend of his was part owner of. When they received a shipment of C64s they would open them up, plug them in and run them for 24 to 48 hours. Typically about 75 to 80% would fail during this burn-in test and would be returned to the distributor, this saved the store having to deal with customers returning these machines.

 

The same stereo store upgraded the RAM in my 400, in late 1982/early 1983, with a Mosaic 64K Select memory board. Before this it was very limited in the software it could run as it was an early model that came with only 8K,

[Xebec]

XE keyboard mylar fails .. are another joy of XE Ownership.

 

And I've encountered the Trace problem, and have a 130XE that will forever be a 64KB 130XE because of it..

Edited August 22, 2017 by Xebec

[+DrVenkman]

XE keyboard mylar fails .. are another joy of XE Ownership.

 

And I've encountered the Trace problem, and have a 130XE that will forever be a 64KB 130XE because of it..

 

Why can't you jumper the lifted trace(s)?

[Xebec]

 

Why can't you jumper the lifted trace(s)?

 

I spent some time trying to do that.. and can't get the second set of RAM to work.. so it went back in the box.. and out came my 256KB 800XL PAL and U1MB 800XL NTSC instead

[+DrVenkman]

 

I spent some time trying to do that.. and can't get the second set of RAM to work.. so it went back in the box.. and out came my 256KB 800XL PAL and U1MB 800XL NTSC instead

 

Heh. Well, that's one way to handle it, lol. I'm sure someone could fix it if you ever get the hankering. Alternately, since 64K is still usable, you could pop another U1MB into it.

[Xebec]

 

Heh. Well, that's one way to handle it, lol. I'm sure someone could fix it if you ever get the hankering. Alternately, since 64K is still usable, you could pop another U1MB into it.

 

 

I was hoping to get the 128KB working just to have a plain 128KB 8-bit .. But yeah, the U1MB is possible..

 

Next purchase though is reserved for 1 or 2 Incognito boards .. The original 800 is a beautiful beast

[+DrVenkman]

 

 

I was hoping to get the 128KB working just to have a plain 128KB 8-bit .. But yeah, the U1MB is possible..

 

Next purchase though is reserved for 1 or 2 Incognito boards .. The original 800 is a beautiful beast

 

I hear you there. I want one of Candle's new Incognito 2 boards for one of my 800's as well, but I also want another U1MB to stick into one of my 1200XL's. Plus another couple UAV boards for one of my 7800's and maybe one of my 5200's.

 

So many toys, so little time and money - kids in college are cramping my style.

[+toddtmw]

Can you still buy incognito boards?

[+DrVenkman]

Can you still buy incognito boards?

 

Nope. Back at the first of the year or so, Candle teased everyone with images of his Incognito 2. Lotharek now shows it on his website but it's not yet available to order. Looks like it'll be a regularly-available product at some point like the U1MB is, which will be great.

[Lord Thag]

I've had several of every model of Atari computer over the years (excepting the 800XE), and I have yet to have one fail me yet... with the exception of the 130XE, which worked perfectly until one day 3/4 of the onboard RAM failed in one go. I added a RAM expansion that bypassed the onboard RAM and it still works like a charm. The 130XE's unreliability is *relative* to the rest of the line, not computers in general. Compared to the vast majority, they are rock solid little machines. I have had close to 10 commodore Vics and 64s fail in that same time frame. Nothing against Commodore computers, they were fine little machines, but they do not hold up as well, in my experience.

[JamesD]

I have a 130XE. The board quality and construction is similar to other machines of the time.

Having so many chips soldered to the motherboard is certainly a drawback, especially the RAM, but I don't think they ever expected the machines to be in use 30 years later.
Let's face it, the $9 chip computer can emulate the Atari now, so you can see why they would think that.

My 130 had a bad trace in the keyboard Mylar, but it's worked well otherwise.
Really, my main complaints with the machine are all about the keyboard.

[+Larry]

My original 130XE from about 1984 (?) is still going, although the keyboard failed. The only one I lost is one I killed, myself. The boards are not great, but better than many I've seen. I sure that Atari never envisioned us going inside and replacing everything but "the kitchen sink" when they designed it. And for all the bad rap that Jack gets, he was competing with the C64, and if he hadn't stepped in and cut costs, we likely would not be discussing this here today. So for one, I'm grateful to Jack T., and while I wish he had done some things differently, I don't lose sight of the good he did.

 

-Larry