Wrathchild Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, ivop said: but it's enormously bloated .NET Core targets Windows/Linux/OS-X so saying don't use C# because of bloat is akin to telling @JAC! he shouldn't have used Eclipse and Java for WUDSN Most Dev's machines are not going to bat an eyelid at the overheads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 JAC! did a marvelous job with WUDSN, but it's not my cup of tea. Vim/mads/make/bash is enough for me 6 minutes ago, Wrathchild said: Most Dev's machines are not going to bat an eyelid at the overheads True. My machine has eight cores, sixteen threads at 3.5GHz and 16GB RAM. But still I'm a supporter of the suckless project. Remember that atari800 ran at 100% emulation speed on a 486DX66 with 64MB back in May 1994. On FreeBSD. And Windows, Linux, Falcon, et cetera. It could not run Numen (if that were available at the time ), but it ran like 90-95% of all software. An RMT editor/player should, IMHO, not need more than a simple dual-core running at 1.5GHz. But anyway, this is my opinion. If I want such an editor, I should write one myself Perhaps I came across a little harsh. It's just a request to whomever picks up the glove and writes a new editor. But if that person is more comfortable with whatever programming language or GUI lib, so be it, and I'll adapt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I'd like to do it, but I still have many other projects, and very ambitious plans for the tracker. So no idea if I'll ever start. But multi-platform is a must. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 19 hours ago, R0ger said: and very ambitious plans for the tracker. Perhaps you shouldn't raise the bar too high at first? An open source, cross-platform tracker that is somewhat equal to the current RMT, would already be very nice! And remember, release early, and release often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Sure ! Mark 2030 in you calendars ! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JAC! Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 6:55 PM, ivop said: True, but it's enormously bloated. Qt has become leaner and leaner throughout the years. I Well, looks like this on my disk ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 hours ago, JAC! said: Well, looks like this on my disk ? Quite fat indeed, but it would be more fair to compare runtimes, not SDKs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 12:32 AM, R0ger said: I'd like to do it, but I still have many other projects, and very ambitious plans for the tracker. So no idea if I'll ever start. But multi-platform is a must. What exectly you have on mind. New playback routine, file format and editor, or just a new front-end to RMT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, baktra said: What exectly you have on mind. New playback routine, file format and editor, or just a new front-end to RMT? Something completely new, and very different. My goal is the tracker to be easily extended. It might actually end up being target platform independent, so it could be used for making music for Sid or AY or whatever really. I want something which allows experiments. Let's say I come up with new sounds using something not heard before. I would like it to be possible to simply add short piece of assembler code, say what features it supports, what tone table it uses, and with no change to tracker itself, I should be able to use it. Same with samples and soft synths. Over the years there were many cool experiments in this area, only reason why it's not used more is missing tracker. That means completely new playback routine, which wouldn't even be fixed binary, but would be linked together from bunch of asm sources, completely new format vague enough to contain anything, and of course, completely new front end, again, flexible enough. So I guess now you understand why you might not live long enough to see it. But your kids might ! Edited July 19, 2020 by R0ger 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 The thing is there are so many POKEY settings that are unknown. I am in the midst of documenting one now lol. A new tracker might be useful in importing your own custom AUDCTL/SKCTL settings, note tables, and whatever else is needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 It seems like a waste of time to rewrite an editor when there are so many available already, doesn't it ? There are these two which are open source, cross platform and under development: https://openmpt.org/ https://milkytracker.org/ Any more (not counting all the outdated ones) ? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the mod format (minus the samples) ? Is it a good fit for Pokey ? There's also https://www.deflemask.com/ which supports many platforms but is closed source and they don't seem to be interested in supporting the A8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 12/7/2020 at 1:24 AM, rensoup said: It seems like a waste of time to rewrite an editor when there are so many available already, doesn't it ? There are these two which are open source, cross platform and under development: https://openmpt.org/ https://milkytracker.org/ Any more (not counting all the outdated ones) ? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the mod format (minus the samples) ? Is it a good fit for Pokey ? There's also https://www.deflemask.com/ which supports many platforms but is closed source and they don't seem to be interested in supporting the A8 Sorry, mod format is not appropriate for 8-bit Atari. None of those trackers can be used as a replacement of RMT. I believe a possibility would be to give RMT a new UI with more convenience features, but that would require awful lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, baktra said: Sorry, mod format is not appropriate for 8-bit Atari. None of those trackers can be used as a replacement of RMT. I believe a possibility would be to give RMT a new UI with more convenience features, but that would require awful lot of work. I don't know that much about either format but just wondering if you have examples of compatibility problems ? Yes a GUI seems like pointless work since there are some many trackers available... What about https://famistudio.org/ for the nes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) Maybe this project could be revived? https://www.deflemask.com/ EDIT: oh, well... you mentioned it :] Edited December 21, 2020 by zbyti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Or maybe this? http://www.hivelytracker.co.uk/ https://github.com/pete-gordon/hivelytracker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, rensoup said: I don't know that much about either format but just wondering if you have examples of compatibility problems ? Yes a GUI seems like pointless work since there are some many trackers available... What about https://famistudio.org/ for the nes ? The biggest problem are instrument definitions. Mods are in essesnce patterns, songlines and sampled instruments. POKEY instruments require very specific approach. No samples, but programming POKEY registers. So those trackers would have to be enhanced to support POKEY. Even that wouldn't be easy. Some music creators import patterns and songlines from mods to RMT and redo just the instruments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 hours ago, zbyti said: Or maybe this? http://www.hivelytracker.co.uk/ https://github.com/pete-gordon/hivelytracker The things I like about Famistudio is the fact it uses C#, it's actively developed, and apparently easier to use than regular mod trackers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 4 hours ago, baktra said: The biggest problem are instrument definitions. Mods are in essesnce patterns, songlines and sampled instruments. POKEY instruments require very specific approach. No samples, but programming POKEY registers. So those trackers would have to be enhanced to support POKEY. Even that wouldn't be easy. Some music creators import patterns and songlines from mods to RMT and redo just the instruments. Of course instruments would require an extra editor but the options are: Write an editor from scratch Hack RMT Use an existing editor and add an instrument editor (and audio output) ? My worry is that a mod pattern editor wouldn't be able to handle all the Pokey specifics. @ivop mentioned linked channels, but perhaps there's more ? Is direct control of the Pokey registers required in some cases ? Would the range of numbers allowed by the .mod format for effect suit Pokey ?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 12 hours ago, rensoup said: Of course instruments would require an extra editor but the options are: Write an editor from scratch Hack RMT Use an existing editor and add an instrument editor (and audio output) ? My worry is that a mod pattern editor wouldn't be able to handle all the Pokey specifics. @ivop mentioned linked channels, but perhaps there's more ? Is direct control of the Pokey registers required in some cases ? Would the range of numbers allowed by the .mod format for effect suit Pokey ?... The mod format is not suited for POKEY. But the tracker would be able to import/export the RMT format, if the in-memory representation of the tune ( arrays, lists, trees) would allow it. And that's doable. Having POKEY instruments is almost all about its registers. For me, writing a new GUI for RMT in Java (WinLinMac and out of the box midi support) is tempting, but too big spare time project for one man, given my experience with Turgen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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