TOM2 ST usb mouse adapter work on XEGS?

[Swami]

Is this ebay seller confused? I have read on here about using an ST mouse on an 8-bit, but some say it must be supported, others say it works like a joystick. I can't figure out if this TOM2 adapter can be supported or work like a joystick with a USB mouse on an XEGS or 800xl. Thanks.

 

Your previous message

Do these TOM2 adapters work with the Atari XE systems, specifically XEGS for playing games with a mouse? Thanks.

Answer:

Hi.
No, it works only with ATARI ST family computers.

Regards

Your friend from eBay

This ad from UK does not mention XE and XL: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOM2-Adapter-USB-Mouse-Joystick-for-AMIGA-ATARI-ST-TT-Commodore-64-128-/172007029169?hash=item280c6af9b1:g:xD0AAOSwA3dYi2uP

 

This one from Poland (original makers?) does:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Amiga-Atari-XE-XL-ST-C64-C128-Mouse-Gamepad-Joystick-USB-adapter-TOM-Rev2-/231881879211?epid=726385678&hash=item35fd3caeab:g:rXAAAOSwr7ZW6~aI

 

 

[+Nezgar]

ST mouse will work with the 8-bit but requires specific support from the program using it. It definitely does not work as any normal controller like a joystick. I've used it on GUI desktop software like GOES. There's little else you can use it with...

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

There are some games that can use the ST mouse. One of them is BombDown, which gets much easier to play when using an ST mouse.

 

BTW here's how to convert your ST mouse if you want the right button to work on the 8 bit Atari.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[+wood_jl]

That adapter APPEARS to be some new generation of "smart" USB adapter, after reading the description.

 

I've been using this old-style passive adapter with the ST and an optical mouse with a USB end for several years......

 

 

.....which wasn't "real" USB support because only certain "USB" mice would work with it. Back in those days when there were still a few computers around with [iBM} PS/2-style mice ports, a lot of the mice featured USB plugs but shipped with PS/2 adapters. Although you're plugging in a USB connector into it, the adapter is appealing to the PS/2 nature of the mouse itself. Hence later actual USB-only mice wouldn't work with it. However when you did have a mouse that would work with it and some Atari 8-bit software that could use an ST mouse, it worked with the 8-bit, too, which was cool.

[+wood_jl]

If you do try one of those new adapters, could you give us a little mini-review?

[martinez]

There is a Tom2 reviev already on YT, submitted by larek (youtube.com/watch?v=b5yR4HXQjYw)

It's in Polish language, so here is my brief summary:

1. The device as it is won't fit Atari joystick port; the dongle is a bit too large. So you have to buy (cheap) joystick port extension cable with it.
2. Once you have Tom2 plugged in, it works with 8-bit Atari with flying colors. Larek had it tested with: XE computer (modified), XEGM with expanded memory, and stock 800XL
3. Logitech gamepad for PC - performed excellent on Atari as joystick controller
4. Microsoft wireless PC mouse - worked excellent on Atari as ST/amiga mouse.

Edited September 11, 2017 by martinez

[Swami]

Okay. Based on martinez's translation of larek's video, I bought this one since it came with a mouse I am hoping is guaranteed to work, before I test it with others, and should get here about five times as fast. Hopefully it is not some knock-off as it is a UK reseller who does not appear to be making much profit unless it is in a shipping markup or got a bulk deal. I'll write a review when I get it and test it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172122464015

[Gunstar]

ST mouse will work with the 8-bit but requires specific support from the program using it. It definitely does not work as any normal controller like a joystick. I've used it on GUI desktop software like GOES. There's little else you can use it with...

Plenty of later art/paint programs support it also, and a few other 8-bit games, like Operation Blood and Special Forces (light gun games) use it too. Usually the mouse is used from joystick port two, except for some of the art/paint programs use it in port 1. ATOS, Diamond, BOSS desktops all use an ST or Amiga mouse if chosen.

[+CharlieChaplin]

ST mouse will work with the 8-bit but requires specific support from the program using it. It definitely does not work as any normal controller like a joystick. I've used it on GUI desktop software like GOES. There's little else you can use it with...

 

Quoting the A8FAQ - ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq

Subject: 8.7) What programs are designed to work with a mouse?Programs that use the Atari STM1 Mouse or compatible:- 8Bit-Mouse (BPAUG)- Artprog- Atari Rechner Simulation mit UPN, (c)1985 MTC Mouse Tecnology Corp.- Black Magic Composer by Sven Tegethoff for Ulf Petersen, 1991- Bomb Down by The Roemer/U.N.O.- BOSS-X by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, 2003- The Brundles by KE-Soft, 1993 (hold SPACE at boot for configuration)- The Brundles Editor by KE-Soft, 1994- CardStax 2.1 by David A. Paterson, 1993- Catch 88 by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Celebrity Cookbook by David Sullivan/Total Control Systems for U.S.A. Media- Click! by Chris Martin, 2008- Copy F'n'F by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Datenbank by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Diamond GOS by Reeve Software- Diamond Develop by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond News Station by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond Paint by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond Write by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Enigmatix! by Stephen A. Firth for Page 6, 1993- EORoid by Daniel Kolakowski for Wolf Software Ltd, 1994- Faecher Patience by Kemal Ezcan for Zong mag, 1993- Fig-Forth by Matt Symonds for Pulsar Software, 1988- FireBall (a Breakout game, requires SAM)- GOE demo by Total Control Systems/David Sullivan, 1988 - Guntris by Richard Gore, 1996- Hardwaretester/Peripheral Test 2.0 by Florian Dingler, 2008- Hong Kong by KE-Soft / Kemal Ezcan (ZONG mag.), 1993- KE-Mouse drivers by KE-Soft- Klony 2010 by Arkadiusz Lubaszka for ArSoft, 2010- Knight Quest by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Kriss Kross by Simon Trew, 1992  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Macao XL by KE-Soft (ZONG mag.)- Mau Mau X by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Maus Calculator, by AMC Verlag, (c) by Peter Eilert- Minesweeper by Harald Schoenfeld for PPP, 1992- Mine Sweeper by Raindorf Soft- Mine Sweeper 3 - M.O.S. (from Abbuc mag.)- Mouse-DOS by KE-Soft (ZONG mag.)- MS-Copy 1.1 by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew for New Atari User #42 1990- Multi-Player by Madteam- Multi-DOS- Numblines by Jaroslaw Kucisz & Tomasz Kucisz for Utopia Software, 1997- Operation Blood, P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of Our 5oft for Mirage and  ANG, 1992- Othello by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Pad 1.2 (Padnoid) by Nelson Ramirez / New Age, 1995- Pad 1.83 by Nelson Ramirez, 2014- Patience by Kemal Ezcan for KE-Soft, 1993- P-Graph(s) by ??? - QUICK Ed Character Editor by PPP- SAM (Screen Aided Management) by Power Per Post & Raindorf Soft (a GUI!)- SAM Budget (80 column spreadsheet program, requires SAM)- SAM Convert (text files to/from the SAM Texter format, requires SAM)- SAM Creator (SAM Painter files to/from Micro-Painter format, requires SAM)- SAM Designer (drawing and design / desktop publishing, requires SAM) - SAM Memobox (card filing program, requires SAM)- SAM Monitor (view and change memory, requires SAM)- SAM Painter (128 color paint program, requires SAM)- SAM Texter (80 column word processor, requires SAM)- Shanghai by Peter Sabath for Activision, 1987- Special Forces (Operation Blood II), P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of  Our 5oft for Mirage and ANG, 1993- Sprint XL (from Abbuc)- Tommingi by Tomek Borygo- TRS Desktop by Tristesse, 2006- Unriagh II by Uwe Hartwig, 1986- Vanish by Kemal Ezcan for KE-Soft, 1993- Vier gewinnt - See also Fandal site search for games that use the Atari mouse:  http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=mouse&butt_details_x=x- See also AtariMania lists of programs using the Atari mouse:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/mcm6wwo  http://preview.tinyurl.com/oa7gklkPrograms that use the Zobian Controls RAT (which never shipped):- Business Manager by Reeve Software, 1986- Rich Man's Word Processor, by Mark Rogalski for Computer Software Services- The RAT was equivalent to the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Mouse #26-3025;  programs designed for the Atari Touch Tablet or for paddles would have also  been at least somewhat usable with the RAT.Programs that use the Zobian Controls SuperRAT (which never shipped): - No released programs.  The SuperRAT as depicted in marketing was either the   Amiga mouse or the Commodore 1351 (which?????); see below for lists of    compatible programs.  (Some customers who ordered a SuperRAT actually   received "The Best" mouse by Best Electronics, a mouse fully compatible   with the Atari STM1.)Programs that use the Amiga mouse:- Black Magic Composer by Sven Tegethoff for Ulf Petersen, 1991- Bomb Down by The Roemer/U.N.O.- Global War by P.M.M. Elfinger & D.J. Garbowski for L.K. Avalon, 1993- Klony 2010 by Arkadiusz Lubaszka for ArSoft, 2010- Multi-Player by MadTeam - Najemnik - Powrot by LK APM for Krysal Software- Operation Blood, P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of Our 5oft for Mirage and  ANG, 1992- Pad 1.83 by Nelson Ramirez, 2014- Samurai's Game by Rafaell Soft for Krysal Software, 1992- Special Forces (Operation Blood II), P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of  Our 5oft for Mirage and ANG, 1993- TRS Desktop by Tristesse, 2006- See also Fandal site search for games that use the Amiga mouse:  http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=amiga+mouse&butt_details_x=xPrograms that use the Commodore 1351 mouse (mouse for Commodore 64/128):- Klony by ArSoft, 2006

[Brentarian]

Slor's AtariNet can use an ST mouse and it works quite well.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243627-atarinet-binaries-available-for-download

[Gunstar]

Programs that use the Zobian Controls RAT (which never shipped):- Business Manager by Reeve Software, 1986- Rich Man's Word Processor, by Mark Rogalski for Computer Software Services- The RAT was equivalent to the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Mouse #26-3025;  programs designed for the Atari Touch Tablet or for paddles would have also  been at least somewhat usable with the RAT.Programs that use the Zobian Controls SuperRAT (which never shipped): - No released programs.  The SuperRAT as depicted in marketing was either the   Amiga mouse or the Commodore 1351 (which?????); see below for lists of    compatible programs.  (Some customers who ordered a SuperRAT actually   received "The Best" mouse by Best Electronics, a mouse fully compatible   with the Atari STM1.)

I don't know about the Zobian Controls RAT, but I ordered and received the Super Rat and software back in the day. The desktop sucked, big time, but luckily, soon after, Diamond came out and I used it with it. Now the Super Rat was nothing like the one-button black/silver/red RAT, it was just a standard looking off-white two button mouse. It must have been the "BEST" mouse. I'd take a picture to show it, but I gave it to a friend a couple of years back when his STM1 stop working. I do remember waiting a couple months for the Super RAT, and eventually I sent a trace through the mail. A week later I finally received my mouse. I probably would never have received it if I hadn't sent the trace. Very sleazy company. However, the mouse is still working over 30 years later. I do remember being surprised as it wasn't the mouse pictured in the ads, but it worked great and was actually better than the Amiga mouse.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Gunstar

[Swami]

Well I have not tried this USB mouse adapter with any of the programs on the mouse supported list yet, since that was not so much my long-shot hope, but tried it with missile command and missile command plus. It does not work in trackball unsupported mode. Cross-hairs just jitter around and slowly work their way to the upper left corner. There is some rudimentary control where if you move it at a certain angle it will slide along in that cardinal direction until it hits the edge of the screen. Tried it with the optical mouse they sent, my Kensington Expert trackball USB mouse, and then as "experimental controls", I tried it without the adapter, with the alfa data trackball in both atari and amiga mode and my CX22 in trackball and joystick mode. No surprise, only the joystick mode on the CX22 worked decent. It sounded like there was some hope of this working with the adapter from the larek video. Basically, it is trying to read the mouse data as joystick data and failing miserably. I will later try to activate missile command trackball mode and then some of the supported files. BTW, the left-click mouse button always worked as a fire button in all of the above configurations.

 

If anyone has a trackball supported missile command rom you know works on the XL/XE machines with the Shift-T command or whatever, could you please post it? Same with a few of the supported mouse files. Thank you. I have seen this kind of crap behavior in Stella using mice. I will have to think if there is some magic solution.

[leech]

I have the TOM+ that I use with my Falcon, I'll have to try it out with one of the 8bits.

[Swami]

There is a Tom2 reviev already on YT, submitted by larek (youtube.com/watch?v=b5yR4HXQjYw)

 

It's in Polish language, so here is my brief summary:

 

1. The device as it is won't fit Atari joystick port; the dongle is a bit too large. So you have to buy (cheap) joystick port extension cable with it.

2. Once you have Tom2 plugged in, it works with 8-bit Atari with flying colors. Larek had it tested with: XE computer (modified), XEGM with expanded memory, and stock 800XL

3. Logitech gamepad for PC - performed excellent on Atari as joystick controller

4. Microsoft wireless PC mouse - worked excellent on Atari as ST/amiga mouse.

 

 

Does larek say which Logitech gamepad he used as a joystick?

[Swami]

I tried the trackball mode of missile command plus. It worked great with CX22 in trackball mode and worked great with the alfa data trackball mouse in atari ST mode. Very disappointing - it worked very crappy using the included mouse and my Kensington Expert Trackball mouse with the TOM2 adapter. It did not wander off to a corner like in missile command joystick mode, but mostly jittered around a lot when I moved the usb mouse, but with no correspondence to the mouse direction. I am surprised that if the TOM2 adapter is supposed to make a usb mouse function as an ST mouse, that the ST mouse would work great, but the TOM2 adapter with usb mouse would not work at all.

 

P.S. Edit: Latest info is that newer firmware revisions (i.e., after 2.01) may not support same mice. This would be a little complicated since gamepad support comes with revision 3. See the comment by MsMadLemon under this video

 

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Ds2-qgEjg]

 

I'll have to try the different firmware revisions, but need a male-to-male USB cable, currently on its way. Hopefully, we do not need to have two different adapters loaded with different firmware versions to support a mouse and gamepad.

[Swami]

That adapter APPEARS to be some new generation of "smart" USB adapter, after reading the description.

 

I've been using this old-style passive adapter with the ST and an optical mouse with a USB end for several years......

 

2010_12_03 Atari ST USB Mouse Adapter.JPG

 

.....which wasn't "real" USB support because only certain "USB" mice would work with it. Back in those days when there were still a few computers around with [iBM} PS/2-style mice ports, a lot of the mice featured USB plugs but shipped with PS/2 adapters. Although you're plugging in a USB connector into it, the adapter is appealing to the PS/2 nature of the mouse itself. Hence later actual USB-only mice wouldn't work with it. However when you did have a mouse that would work with it and some Atari 8-bit software that could use an ST mouse, it worked with the 8-bit, too, which was cool.

Having learned about these in some more detail, the Jerry (apparently after the mouse, like the R.A.T.) and other first gen of these would only support a few specific mice. The TOM supported just about any USB mouse and by rev 3.0 of firmware, gamepad and keyboard (as mouse/joystick), the TOM2 (or TOM Rev2) is just the TOM with a more updated firmware, something in the hardware like a different chip and a firmware update app you can use on your PC. TOM+ has input ports for both DB9 2nd gen console controllers and the USB trio of TOM2.

[+remowilliams]

I've got some Tom2s and they worked great with a couple different USB gamepads and mice. I've tried the gamepad function on A8s, C64, Amiga, ST and the mouse function on C64, Amiga and ST.

One thing to note is that the Tom2s might need to be set for different modes for what you're looking to do, they come by default set to Amiga mouse control I believe. There is no A8 mouse mode that I'm aware of, but if something supports an ST or Amiga mouse that should work.

One other thing to note is that like all USB/mice converters I've seen, newer mice with higher DPI move much faster than their old original Atari/Commodore counterparts.

I've been using this old-style passive adapter with the ST and an optical mouse with a USB end for several years.... which wasn't "real" USB support because only certain "USB" mice would work with it.

These type of adapters (which is most of them that I've seen, other than the Tom2s) only support USB mice that are capable of PS/2 protocol communication.

[Swami]

I've got some Tom2s and they worked great with a couple different USB gamepads and mice. I've tried the gamepad function on A8s, C64, Amiga, ST and the mouse function on C64, Amiga and ST.

 

One thing to note is that the Tom2s might need to be set for different modes for what you're looking to do. They come by default set to Amiga mouse control I believe.

 

One other thing to note is that like all USB/mice converters I've seen, newer mice with higher DPI move much faster than their old original Atari/Commodore counterparts.

Crap. Thank you. I was apparently over-sold on the "just plug it in and it works" comments. Also, I thought that manual was outdated since it does not describe TOM2. Now, if I am on an XEGS, but my ST mouse works directly, I suppose I should use ST mouse button presses, since there is no 8-bit configuration protocol.

adapter_tom_instruction_en.pdf

[leech]

Having learned about these in some more detail, the Jerry (apparently after the mouse, like the R.A.T.) and other first gen of these would only support a few specific mice. The TOM supported just about any USB mouse and by rev 3.0 of firmware, gamepad and keyboard (as mouse/joystick), the TOM2 (or TOM Rev2) is just the TOM with a more updated firmware, something in the hardware like a different chip and a firmware update app you can use on your PC. TOM+ has input ports for both DB9 2nd gen console controllers and the USB trio of TOM2.

Yeah, I really like my TOM+. The chips in the Jaguar were called TOM and JERRY too, weren't they? Anyhow, with the TOM+ you are supposed to be able to plug in a DB9 mouse/gamepad/joystick into a PC and have it work as well. Wish I'd known that before I'd bought the Raphnet DB9 to USB adapter, but what can you do....

[Swami]

Got the Tom2 to work with generic optical mouse, Microsoft wireless mouse and my Kensington expert mouse-fully optical- in st mode playing missile command plus on xegs. It seems jittery and imprecise compared to the direct st mouse and cx22. So far I prefer these original equipment products to the Tom2 with optical mice. I'm able to score st least twice as high with them on missle command. The standard optical mice were worse than the expert trackball mouse. I'm going to try firmware updates, st support games and game pad as joystick next: Logitech F310 and wireless F710. I also ordered an opto- mechanical Kensington expert trackball mouse 4.0 from 1994 as it feel like the high dpi optical may be part of the issue with modern mice.

 

Just for reference: CX22/80 is rougly 40dpi, Atari ST mouse is 300dpi, typical modern optical mouse is 1000dpi, high resolution optical mouse is 1600dpi or more.

[martinez]

 

Does larek say which Logitech gamepad he used as a joystick?

 

Nope, he didn't say. Only mentioned, that manufacturer provides a list of controllers tested compatible.

 

Looks like Logitech Rumblepad 2... but it's just my guessing, based on quick google search. Larek is a member here, nothing wrong if you PM him a question.

 

One thing to note is that the Tom2s might need to be set for different modes for what you're looking to do, they come by default set to Amiga mouse control I believe.

 

That's right. As stated in manual, there are three different settings available to use Tom2 as a mouse: Amiga, ST and C64/128. So if it won't work p&p, it's worth try to change Tom2 settings and test again.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by martinez

[+remowilliams]

Anyhow, with the TOM+ you are supposed to be able to plug in a DB9 mouse/gamepad/joystick into a PC and have it work as well. Wish I'd known that before I'd bought the Raphnet DB9 to USB adapter, but what can you do....

 

Hah, that I did not know. I just plugged it in with a USB A/A cable and the PC does recognize it as 'e4you Tom' controller 2 axis/2 buttons. I don't have an actual controller plugged into it though because I don't appear to have a DB9 gender changer handy...

 

As a note the two controllers I've used so far with the Tom2 are a Logitech Dual Action controller (G-UD8) and an iBuffalo classic USB gamepad (BSGP801)

[Swami]

Tried out the TOM2 with my wired logitech F310 rumble pad and it worked really well in general, except that with Pitfall, it seemed to have problems with pushing right and fire (jump) at the same time. I end up jumping straight up when trying to get a vine or jump from one alligator to the next or bounce off the end of the vine.

 

I have not been able to get my wireless F710 rumble pad to be recognized by the TOM rev2. The rumble button works, but the mode button will just blink and the TOM rev2 adapter blinks rapidly. Just checked and reinstalled latest revision, version 5. I just contacted larek about it.

[greblus]

I have not been able to get my wireless F710 rumble pad to be recognized by the TOM rev2. The rumble button works, but the mode button will just blink and the TOM rev2 adapter blinks rapidly. Just checked and reinstalled latest revision, version 5. I just contacted larek about it.

 

Strange. My F710 works fine with Tom2. Have you tried to change modes: XInput (X) / DirectInput (D). As far as I remember it works in Direct Input mode.

 

W.

Edited September 28, 2017 by greblus

[Swami]

Yes. I tried both x and d. F310 works in d mode. F710 is not working in either. What version of firmware are you using. I am using version 5.