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TOM2 ST usb mouse adapter work on XEGS?

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Also version 5 and in Atari ST mode it works quite nice (although mechanically this pad is not that great).

What do you mean when you say Atari ST mode? Are you talking about mouse emulation with the gamepad? OR do you have to set a mouse to ST mode and then swap it out for the gamepad?

 

Also, what is this in the manual about pressing and holding buttons 9 and 10 to enter mouse emulation mode for gamepad. Button 10 is select, but button 9 has no assignment. Is button 9 Start?

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No. By default it comes pre-configured for the Amiga computer. So I followed the users manual and connected USB

mouse first to change configuration:

 

ATARI ST/TT/FALCON

1) Turn off ATARI and connect adapter with usb mouse to Port 1.

2) Turn power on and after 1 sec. (try not less not more) press and hold LEFT mouse button.

3) Next quickly press 5-6 times RIGHT mouse button.

4) After that LED should off for a second and the fastly blinks 2 times.

5) Release holded button.

6) Power off and then on ATARI again.

 

I also noticed that it works correctly after pressing mode button on the pad (pad will remember this setting later on).

 

And BTW it's likely that I'm wrong and the above was not necessary at all. The manual (even in polish) seems unclear

and a bit confusing :)

Edited by greblus

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No. By default it comes pre-configured for the Amiga joystick. So I followed the users manual and connected USB

mouse first to change configuration:

 

ATARI ST/TT/FALCON

1) Turn off ATARI and connect adapter with usb mouse to Port 1.

2) Turn power on and after 1 sec. (try not less not more) press and hold LEFT mouse button.

3) Next quickly press 5-6 times RIGHT mouse button.

4) After that LED should off for a second and the fastly blinks 2 times.

5) Release holded button.

6) Power off and then on ATARI again.

 

I also noticed that it works correctly after pressing mode button on the pad (pad will remember this setting later on).

I did this configuration with the mouse and TOM2 when I first got it and set it to Atari ST and, like I said, all mice and the F310 work, so I assume the TOM2 remembers the ST setting and this is not the problem. Mode button light on F710 just blinks a few times and then turns off. On the F310 the mode button light is either on (flight?) or off (sports?). May have those switched as I am at work and don't recall. I will try re-configuring mouse and then swapping to F710. It did not really specify in the manual a way to configure joystick for ST or Amiga, just mouse, so that was why I was confused.

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And BTW it's likely that I'm wrong and the above was not necessary at all. The manual (even in polish) seems unclear

and a bit confusing :)

That's okay, any assistance from someone who has a working F710 with the TOM2 is appreciated.

 

I'm assuming you are using this on an ST computer and not an 8-bit. Could be the XEGS is the problem, although it mystifies me that it is good with F310 but not F710 unless there is some driver support issue.

 

I think I mentioned this earlier, but although all my standard mice (move them around on desktop) would do the configuration step okay, wireless or not, when I tried to use my Kensington Expert trackball mouse, I had to configure a standard mouse and then swap it. Perhaps this is the case here.

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That's okay, any assistance from someone who has a working F710 with the TOM2 is appreciated.

 

I'm assuming you are using this on an ST computer and not an 8-bit. Could be the XEGS is the problem, although it mystifies me that it is good with F310 but not F710 unless there is some driver support issue.

 

I think I mentioned this earlier, but although all my standard mice (move them around on desktop) would do the configuration step okay, wireless or not, when I tried to use my Kensington Expert trackball mouse, I had to configure a standard mouse and then swap it. Perhaps this is the case here.

No, it's on 600xl. See how it misbehaves when mode led is off:

 

https://youtu.be/vFTZtYSN8bI

 

Wysłane z mojego LG-K220 przy użyciu Tapatalka

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Anyhow, with the TOM+ you are supposed to be able to plug in a DB9 mouse/gamepad/joystick into a PC and have it work as well.

 

Do you have any details on this? I just tried a DB9 gender changer with a standard 2600 stick and got nothing.

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Do you have any details on this? I just tried a DB9 gender changer with a standard 2600 stick and got nothing.

I'll give it a shot, since there is nothing in the manual on it. Most all the output seems to go out the DB9 on the side opposite to the USB port (narrow end), so it's possible you plug the old DB9 peripheral (atari joystick) into the port adjacent to the USB on the TOM+, then use a DB9 to USB adapter for the output and the USB port on the TOM+ is just a red herring for this application.

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I have not heard back from Elektronika4u for 2.5 days on the F710 issue and have been very thorough, even tried the reset option of taking out a battery, pressing L1/L2 and reinserting battery, with no effect, so unless I hear back, I will conclude the F710 wireless is incompatible with the XEGS. Maybe the rumblepad 2 wireless would work, but not investing in one now, since I have a wired F310 that works with the XEGS.

 

Edit: So, within 10 minutes after posting this, they responded. They said they have an F710 there and it works. So, I asked them if they have seen it work on an XEGS. As greblus posted earlier, it does work on the 600XL, and presumably the supported Atari ST, Amiga and Commodore machines. Other possibility is some recent small hardware change in F710 messed with newer supply, as the one I have is only a few months old.

 

Edit #2: Larek replied and said his gamepad in his video is a Wired Rumblepad 2 used on the XEGS and does not have an F710. He suggested I try factory resets before giving up, so I will try to figure those out.

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No, it's on 600xl. See how it misbehaves when mode led is off:

 

 

Wysłane z mojego LG-K220 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Odd. It behaves like you are using a mouse for the menu with the mode button off. This is what it does with a mouse on the TOM2 in the Ultimate SD Cart menu.

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2) Turn power on and after 1 sec. (try not less not more) press and hold LEFT mouse button.

3) Next quickly press 5-6 times RIGHT mouse button.

4) After that LED should off for a second and the fastly blinks 2 times.

5) Release holded button.

6) Power off and then on ATARI again.

 

This is next level "up up down down left right left right B A" ! ;)

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Odd. It behaves like you are using a mouse for the menu with the mode button off. This is what it does with a mouse on the TOM2 in the Ultimate SD Cart menu.

 

Unfortunately it's not a mouse emulation (tried it with Klony 2010).

 

W.

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I am happy to announce that by rolling the firmware version back from v5 to v3, I have been able to get my Logitech Wireless F710 to work with the TOM2 adapter on the XEGS!!! Also, on the wired F310 and wireless F710, I can use the left analog stick or the dpad on both gamepads. :)

 

The issue with jumping to the left or right from a standstill in Pitfall is still an issue and seems worse with the analog stick, but the dpad and analog stick are great for the many other games I've tried. This could be an issue with other games that involve precise simultaneous pushing of fire and direction. I was hoping the stick would work better than the dpad for this issue.

 

I am sad that the two very old mice I found from the 1980's are not recognized by the TOM2. One is a CH Products DT225 PS/2 4 Button Trackball and the other is an IBM Convertible 2-4 button track-rollerball PS/2 Mouse pn 139660.

 

I would like to get an old mouse or trackball with 200dpi or less to see if the slight jitter and imprecision with mice on the TOM2 are due to the high dpi moving things too fast. It might also make the gameplay more fun with more rolling involved. Although this is a bit counter-productive to the idea of replacing old ST mice with modern, readily available peripherals. The Expert Mouse 4.0 and Personal System Note are still on the way.

 

Update: In the continued nickel and diming to death research into this device, I ordered an active PS/2 to USB adapter from amazon for the 1980's mice. Seems newer PS/2 mice have protocol converter built in so PC can recognize a PS/2 device in a USB port, but older equipment (1980's) does not, so you need an adapter that has the protocol converter built into it.

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Quoting the A8FAQ - ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq

Subject: 8.7) What programs are designed to work with a mouse?Programs that use the Atari STM1 Mouse or compatible:- 8Bit-Mouse (BPAUG)- Artprog- Atari Rechner Simulation mit UPN, (c)1985 MTC Mouse Tecnology Corp.- Black Magic Composer by Sven Tegethoff for Ulf Petersen, 1991- Bomb Down by The Roemer/U.N.O.- BOSS-X by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, 2003- The Brundles by KE-Soft, 1993 (hold SPACE at boot for configuration)- The Brundles Editor by KE-Soft, 1994- CardStax 2.1 by David A. Paterson, 1993- Catch 88 by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Celebrity Cookbook by David Sullivan/Total Control Systems for U.S.A. Media- Click! by Chris Martin, 2008- Copy F'n'F by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Datenbank by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Diamond GOS by Reeve Software- Diamond Develop by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond News Station by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond Paint by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Diamond Write by Reeve Software, requires Diamond GOS- Enigmatix! by Stephen A. Firth for Page 6, 1993- EORoid by Daniel Kolakowski for Wolf Software Ltd, 1994- Faecher Patience by Kemal Ezcan for Zong mag, 1993- Fig-Forth by Matt Symonds for Pulsar Software, 1988- FireBall (a Breakout game, requires SAM)- GOE demo by Total Control Systems/David Sullivan, 1988 - Guntris by Richard Gore, 1996- Hardwaretester/Peripheral Test 2.0 by Florian Dingler, 2008- Hong Kong by KE-Soft / Kemal Ezcan (ZONG mag.), 1993- KE-Mouse drivers by KE-Soft- Klony 2010 by Arkadiusz Lubaszka for ArSoft, 2010- Knight Quest by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Kriss Kross by Simon Trew, 1992  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Macao XL by KE-Soft (ZONG mag.)- Mau Mau X by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Maus Calculator, by AMC Verlag, (c) by Peter Eilert- Minesweeper by Harald Schoenfeld for PPP, 1992- Mine Sweeper by Raindorf Soft- Mine Sweeper 3 - M.O.S. (from Abbuc mag.)- Mouse-DOS by KE-Soft (ZONG mag.)- MS-Copy 1.1 by Mirko Sobe / MS Software, requires BOSS-X- Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew for New Atari User #42 1990- Multi-Player by Madteam- Multi-DOS- Numblines by Jaroslaw Kucisz & Tomasz Kucisz for Utopia Software, 1997- Operation Blood, P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of Our 5oft for Mirage and  ANG, 1992- Othello by Simon Trew, 1991  - Supports Multi-Mouse ST Mouse Driver by Simon Trew- Pad 1.2 (Padnoid) by Nelson Ramirez / New Age, 1995- Pad 1.83 by Nelson Ramirez, 2014- Patience by Kemal Ezcan for KE-Soft, 1993- P-Graph(s) by ??? - QUICK Ed Character Editor by PPP- SAM (Screen Aided Management) by Power Per Post & Raindorf Soft (a GUI!)- SAM Budget (80 column spreadsheet program, requires SAM)- SAM Convert (text files to/from the SAM Texter format, requires SAM)- SAM Creator (SAM Painter files to/from Micro-Painter format, requires SAM)- SAM Designer (drawing and design / desktop publishing, requires SAM) - SAM Memobox (card filing program, requires SAM)- SAM Monitor (view and change memory, requires SAM)- SAM Painter (128 color paint program, requires SAM)- SAM Texter (80 column word processor, requires SAM)- Shanghai by Peter Sabath for Activision, 1987- Special Forces (Operation Blood II), P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of  Our 5oft for Mirage and ANG, 1993- Sprint XL (from Abbuc)- Tommingi by Tomek Borygo- TRS Desktop by Tristesse, 2006- Unriagh II by Uwe Hartwig, 1986- Vanish by Kemal Ezcan for KE-Soft, 1993- Vier gewinnt - See also Fandal site search for games that use the Atari mouse:  http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=mouse&butt_details_x=x- See also AtariMania lists of programs using the Atari mouse:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/mcm6wwo  http://preview.tinyurl.com/oa7gklkPrograms that use the Zobian Controls RAT (which never shipped):- Business Manager by Reeve Software, 1986- Rich Man's Word Processor, by Mark Rogalski for Computer Software Services- The RAT was equivalent to the Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Mouse #26-3025;  programs designed for the Atari Touch Tablet or for paddles would have also  been at least somewhat usable with the RAT.Programs that use the Zobian Controls SuperRAT (which never shipped): - No released programs.  The SuperRAT as depicted in marketing was either the   Amiga mouse or the Commodore 1351 (which?????); see below for lists of    compatible programs.  (Some customers who ordered a SuperRAT actually   received "The Best" mouse by Best Electronics, a mouse fully compatible   with the Atari STM1.)Programs that use the Amiga mouse:- Black Magic Composer by Sven Tegethoff for Ulf Petersen, 1991- Bomb Down by The Roemer/U.N.O.- Global War by P.M.M. Elfinger & D.J. Garbowski for L.K. Avalon, 1993- Klony 2010 by Arkadiusz Lubaszka for ArSoft, 2010- Multi-Player by MadTeam - Najemnik - Powrot by LK APM for Krysal Software- Operation Blood, P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of Our 5oft for Mirage and  ANG, 1992- Pad 1.83 by Nelson Ramirez, 2014- Samurai's Game by Rafaell Soft for Krysal Software, 1992- Special Forces (Operation Blood II), P. Kalinowski & P. Bulkowski of  Our 5oft for Mirage and ANG, 1993- TRS Desktop by Tristesse, 2006- See also Fandal site search for games that use the Amiga mouse:  http://a8.fandal.cz/search.php?search=amiga+mouse&butt_details_x=xPrograms that use the Commodore 1351 mouse (mouse for Commodore 64/128):- Klony by ArSoft, 2006

 

I pulled together some games from the list. Do you know anything about these mouse drivers, like KE mouse and Multi-Mouse by Simon Trew? Do these load as part of the game rom or are they something you somehow load ahead of time?

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Alright,

 

here are the mouse programs I have in my collection atm. Note that this includes only half (or less?) of the available mouse-programs for the A8.

 

Think I will update my collection soon, because I have just bought a) The BEST trackball (which looks like a trackball, but acts either as an ST or an Amiga mouse) and b) The Handy mouse and already got them. The Best trackball works very good and seems to have a resolution 2-4 times higher than the ST mouse (furthermore it is switchable between ST and Amiga mouse, so all A8 mouse programs work with it). The Handy mouse is very small and thus, like it says, very handy but it has no switch and it seems not to work with every mouse program, no clue why (will do some further testing here). While the Best trackball works fine with Missile Command and Missile Command+, it does not work with Slime (trackball only it seems?), whereas the Handy mouse does NOT work with any of these three programs...

 

Most A8 programs are using the mouse in port 2, but some (like MC, MC+ and others) require the mouse to be in port 1. And errm, it is no good idea to keep the mouse always connected to port 2, since there are some A8 programs that (even though they do not support a mouse) react to it as if auto-fire has been enabled or in some other strange way...

 

The Multimouse drivers by Simon Trew were available thru page 6 magazine and also as a PD diskette. The driver diskette contained drivers for ST-mouse, Amiga-mouse, Touch Tablet, Trackball and Joystick to be used in port 2, as well as a patch for TB XL and docs. Think the author said that one must first load / install the driver from DOS manually and then load a desired program. Lazy as I am, I simply appended the ST-mouse driver to all of his programs (and once more the Trackball driver to all of his programs), so I had a single/unified file which I could load automatically (as Autorun.SYS under DOS or simply with a gamedos or a bootloader). But I also kept the original driver-diskette in my collection. Afaik, atarimania has all his programs available with a joystick driver, thus you have to use them with a joystick in port 2...

 

P.S.: You can find the KE mouse programs in your other thread...

MOUSE_programs.zip

Edited by CharlieChaplin

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Hmmm,

 

just visited atarimania and read the (PDF) manual for Slime and noticed the following:

 

- my original red Synapse cart of Slime seems not to work with Trackball (or ST-mouse) at all; when I press "T" I get the options screen, but nowhere does it display something to change the controller type; simply pressing T (no matter if once or several times) does not make it work with Trackball or ST-mouse...?!?

 

- the PDF manual at atarimania mentions loading instructions for tape and disk, but not for cart. Alright, no-one needs loading instructions for a cart, but reading further, the manual says that one has to press the Option key to get the options screen, pressing "T" will change the controller type to trackball, while "S" will change it to joystick

 

So, maybe the trackball mode works only with the tape/disk version of Slime and does not work in the cart version (which is 400/800 only, since it requires OS-B) ?!? Someone should take a look at the code to confirm if I am right or wrong with this guess...

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Alright,

 

here are the mouse programs I have in my collection atm. Note that this includes only half (or less?) of the available mouse-programs for the A8.

 

Think I will update my collection soon, because I have just bought a) The BEST trackball (which looks like a trackball, but acts either as an ST or an Amiga mouse) and b) The Handy mouse and already got them. The Best trackball works very good and seems to have a resolution 2-4 times higher than the ST mouse (furthermore it is switchable between ST and Amiga mouse, so all A8 mouse programs work with it). The Handy mouse is very small and thus, like it says, very handy but it has no switch and it seems not to work with every mouse program, no clue why (will do some further testing here). While the Best trackball works fine with Missile Command and Missile Command+, it does not work with Slime (trackball only it seems?), whereas the Handy mouse does NOT work with any of these three programs...

 

Most A8 programs are using the mouse in port 2, but some (like MC, MC+ and others) require the mouse to be in port 1. And errm, it is no good idea to keep the mouse always connected to port 2, since there are some A8 programs that (even though they do not support a mouse) react to it as if auto-fire has been enabled or in some other strange way...

 

The Multimouse drivers by Simon Trew were available thru page 6 magazine and also as a PD diskette. The driver diskette contained drivers for ST-mouse, Amiga-mouse, Touch Tablet, Trackball and Joystick to be used in port 2, as well as a patch for TB XL and docs. Think the author said that one must first load / install the driver from DOS manually and then load a desired program. Lazy as I am, I simply appended the ST-mouse driver to all of his programs (and once more the Trackball driver to all of his programs), so I had a single/unified file which I could load automatically (as Autorun.SYS under DOS or simply with a gamedos or a bootloader). But I also kept the original driver-diskette in my collection. Afaik, atarimania has all his programs available with a joystick driver, thus you have to use them with a joystick in port 2...

 

P.S.: You can find the KE mouse programs in your other thread...

 

Thanks for all the information and files. Since I don't have any floppies or a 1050, only SIO2PC, it will be interesting to see if I can get the KE-soft mouse drivers to work with the games by the SIO2PC device.

 

I have an Alfa Data ST/Amiga switchable trackball, a Kraft switchable trackball and a Quickshot switchable mouse. They all work fairly well, except the alfa data mouse buttons are a little tricky. I got the trackballs I got because I like the right hand trackballing with multiple fingers and the left click at my thumb. Just gotten used to it. I suppose one could just as easily use your thumb for the trackball and fingers for the mouse. I like the Quickshot because it has the more modern ergonomic curve for your hand and sounded like it worked well.

 

So far, I've only seen the minesweeper games work as well with the TOM2 as with an original ST mouse.

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Hmmm,

 

just visited atarimania and read the (PDF) manual for Slime and noticed the following:

 

- my original red Synapse cart of Slime seems not to work with Trackball (or ST-mouse) at all; when I press "T" I get the options screen, but nowhere does it display something to change the controller type; simply pressing T (no matter if once or several times) does not make it work with Trackball or ST-mouse...?!?

 

- the PDF manual at atarimania mentions loading instructions for tape and disk, but not for cart. Alright, no-one needs loading instructions for a cart, but reading further, the manual says that one has to press the Option key to get the options screen, pressing "T" will change the controller type to trackball, while "S" will change it to joystick

 

So, maybe the trackball mode works only with the tape/disk version of Slime and does not work in the cart version (which is 400/800 only, since it requires OS-B) ?!? Someone should take a look at the code to confirm if I am right or wrong with this guess...

 

It wouldn't be the first time, I suppose. Missile command seems to have various version that work with trackball "and/or" ST mouse depending on cartridge, disk and the particular machine. I've heard Missile Command Plus works with CX22 but not with the mouse on some machines, but it works with both on my XEGS. If it went from disk to cart, it is possible there are different versions and machine compatibilities. Perhaps something of a side effect of there being eight different 8-bit machines and re-releases.

 

Thanks for the slime info, so now I won't get too manic from inadvertently using the xex version.

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Right. I was just amazed about what you have to do to change modes :)

I know. For switching between Atari and Amiga, a switch would have been nice, like on the 2600daptor adaptors (except in reverse USB to DB9). It has auto-detect for mouse vs gamepad vs keyboard, but not between atari mouse and amiga mouse - maybe some difficulty in doing this, but a dipswitch should not have been a problem. Some people apparently don't like dip switches.

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I updated mine to firmware 5 and it stopped working on my Falcon, so went back to 3 as well.

Hey Leech,

What kind of experience have you had with the TOM2/+ on the Falcon as far as mice and gamepads. Have you used them with games involving speed and precision? Any glitchiness? I just observed that Tommingi has much better mouse performance on the 800xl with the TOM2 than on the XEGS or even Altirra. I've observed that the TOM2 glitchiness with the mouse is very game and machine dependent, while my ST/Amiga mice from the 80's & 90s are always flawlessly smooth and precise.

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Hmmm,

 

just visited atarimania and read the (PDF) manual for Slime and noticed the following:

 

- my original red Synapse cart of Slime seems not to work with Trackball (or ST-mouse) at all; when I press "T" I get the options screen, but nowhere does it display something to change the controller type; simply pressing T (no matter if once or several times) does not make it work with Trackball or ST-mouse...?!?

 

- the PDF manual at atarimania mentions loading instructions for tape and disk, but not for cart. Alright, no-one needs loading instructions for a cart, but reading further, the manual says that one has to press the Option key to get the options screen, pressing "T" will change the controller type to trackball, while "S" will change it to joystick

 

So, maybe the trackball mode works only with the tape/disk version of Slime and does not work in the cart version (which is 400/800 only, since it requires OS-B) ?!? Someone should take a look at the code to confirm if I am right or wrong with this guess...

 

I just read you may need to use CTRL+T for this, rather than just "T". I would be interested in whether that works for the cart version, along with disk and tape.

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I see a couple things in this thread I can comment on (disclaimer: based on my memory) so I will... hopefully it helps someone:

 

The Rat from Zobian Controls was mentioned earlier. That was a piece of junk. It was basically a Tandy/Radio Shack Analog Mouse adapted to work with an Atari via the X/Y POTS (e.g. pair of paddle controllers). The problem was jumpiness in the signal. I tried to add support for our Business Manager software adding a little graphical menu selection up front (6 images that one could point to and click to launch that part of the software) via The Rat. I experimented with as many ideas as my 15 year old brain could devise, but could never get it to work particularly well to solve the jitter issue. Consequently the Rat didn't really go anywhere. I can't imagine Matthew Zobian ever made any money off of it after paying for those color ads in Antic magazine.

 

The Atari ST mouse uses the 4 joystick pins (up/down/left/right) to send its signal to an Atari in pairs for the X/Y axis. Basically (don't recall exactly) one might see 0, 2, 1, 3 if going up and 3, 1, 2, 0 if going down on the two bits being used for a given axis. The challenge there was reading the data fast enough. I added a bunch of DLIs to sample the joystick and then would process the data in between every frame. I think David Sullivan mentioned using the PIA interrupt or something so he may have had a better/more efficient technique than did I for all I know. In a nutshell, 2 bits for X and 2 bits for Y was how that worked.

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