C-64 Mini Coming Soon...

[Zippy Zapp]

 

*sigh* Fine, I will give some points for not being vaporware but I still think this is little more than brand vampirism, in particular since the C64, disk drives and emulators, and games are still so plentiful. As with the Genesis HD, the one thing for which I can give credit is the native HDMI output as very few, if any, plebs have composite or s-video monitors, and certainly a lot of elites have moved on -- I hover somewhere in-between.

 

I don't really need one of these, as do most people that still own their original Commodore hardware. But think about it from the perspective of the people that are no longer into C64, perhaps they sold off their systems and games years ago. This is a decent plug and play solution for them. There are probably way more people that would buy this and have a little slice of retro then there are people that will buy the old Commodore setup again.

 

So when you look at it that way and the fact that it is in fact properly licensed, it is not bad for the target audience. I don't think current Commodore owners are the target market.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Zippy Zapp

[+OLD CS1]

Already considered in the section you quoted. I suspect the opposite is true: if you had a real system before I believe you are more likely to want to obtain a real system, again, and be successful considering current prolific availability. These are for those who never had and are curious, only had for a short time, those who want easy integration into their modern entertainment system, some who will want to hack it or otherwise tear it down, hipsters and other Hot Topic dwellers, and few others.

 

My cynicism and condescension remains firm. But, as I point out to those who come 'round and shit up other threads, I should from here on out practice what I preach and keep my negativity to myself.

[Hwlngmad]

I am interested to see how this product will do. While I understand that it offers nothing really new, it still lines up with the retro offerings today of having a 'plug and play' unit to experience console/computer gaming from the past. However, I would have preferred something similar to the ZX Spectrum Next, but this still looking interesting and will have to see how good it is and if it is worth picking up.

[amiman99]

For $69, I could pick it up if I see it.

 

I have C64C, and 2 modded DTV64s, it's not going to hurt if I get one more

[+DZ-Jay]

The crappy game selection is very easy to explain: You see, we're spoiled. Spoiled rotten. We all played the best games back in the day, but that's because they circulated around, cracked, on BBSs and floppy swaps. To some great extent, these pirate libraries still exist and are published on the Internet, so we all still have a chance to play them.

 

However, a lot of the companies that made these classic games are either out of business or were eventually acquired by bigger fish, which means that sorting out the copyrights and ownership is either very hard, impossible, or absolutely futile. This is similar to some "bargain bin" collection of DVDs, where you find 5 "Hollywood blockbuster" movies on one disc for $1.00, but it's like "Home Alone 3," "Ghostbusters 2," and "Jaws VII," or whatever -- all direct to video fodder.

 

Go ahead, try to negotiate with modern Activision super-mega-corp for the rights to re-publish "Ghostbusters" on the C=64. Or see if you can sort out the porting rights of the "Gyruss" between developer Parker Bros. and publisher Konami. Chances are that Parker Bros. don't even remember ever having a computer game team, and Konami wouldn't care either way.

 

It sucks that the commercial viability and availability of these properties is so convoluted. But hey! We can still all download those floppy images from c64.com, so who cares!

 

-dZ.

[carlsson]

Activision though has cooperated with AtGames for their latest Flashback units so I see a glimmer of hope that the rights to their games on other formats may be within reach. Perhaps less so Electronic Arts, though if neo-retro really becomes a big thing, they might want to do something about their back catalogue to which extent themselves have the rights.

 

The selection on THEC64 is similar to what the C64DTV managed to bring, perhaps even more UK oriented this time around which also could be due to the developers are in the UK and despite we're writing 2018 and the whole world is connected through Internet, I think it is easier to negotiate with other companies on a local basis than companies on the other side of the planet.

 

By the way, it seems THEC64 is more or less sold out in the first batch going to vendors, which is an interesting surprise. Sure it represents one of the biggest selling home computers through time and has received a lot of free publicity but that beyond the backers in the crowdfunding, the first retail batch would be booked up before launch was more than I had anticipated.

[zetastrike]

Will this actually be sold in US retail stores? I can't imagine it would sell all that well, it doesn't have NINTENDO stamped on it. I can already see all the videos from American youtubers who bought it, laughing at the games for not being on the NES and getting all the history behind it wrong. I'm American btw and hate how tribal we are with old games.

[carlsson]

Time will tell. I believe they're launching it in Europe to begin with, as likely the market and demand is big enough for them to handle at the investment costs they're likely having.

 

(For that matter, most rest of the world seems to be just as N* crazy as you paint the US to be, so in that matter there is no real difference)

[Zippy Zapp]

I have asked the question about USA retailers and this is the response I got:

 

Thec64 Coming asap please keep checking the retailers page on www.thec64.com for updates and additions

Asap yes, thanks

 

 

I think it will sell quite well in USA. There are plenty of people into the classics as evidenced by the sales of the other retro consoles. Besides remember how well the original direct to tv 64 sold here in the states, especially on QVC and Radio Shacks version. And that was way before it was cool to have all these retro consoles.

[Greg2600]

I'm now hearing that you will be able to add roms to the unit, as long as they are D64? If so, are all the cassettes converted to D64? Would multi-disk games work somehow? I know for my Ultimate 1541 I use a text file that lists the D64 disks.

[carlsson]

A brief rundown of some common file formats:

 

TAP is a format that describes the changes in signal on the actual tape. Used to preserve originals, not overly common elsewhere in the C64 scene, perhaps more common on the VIC-20. In order to convert one of those, one needs to parse the content of the file and output one or many PRG files (see below). Part of the content may be lost in the process, for instance content temporarily stored in the tape buffer but which isn't part of the main program.

 

PRG is the raw format of a program file, which consists of the two byte load address followed by all the data in the program. Both machine code and BASIC programs are stored in this format. Data files that would appear as SEQ or USR on a floppy disk may be found in the PRG format too, since these three formats mostly are equivalent.

 

T64 is a synthetic tape format, which actually contains at least one PRG file plus some extra headers containing the name of the program. Not at all as complex as the TAP format, and also much smaller. It doesn't have any real equivalent on a real C64, only used in emulation for easy distribution of single programs with the loading headers. You can easily extract PRG from a T64 with the right tool.

 

CRT is similarly a synthetic cartridge format, which contains a PRG file designed to be run from a memory location where the cartridge maps to, plus headers. You are likely to be able to extract PRG from CRT, though you may need to know a little about the content in order to use it as a PRG.

 

D64 represents the higher level of a floppy disk. You put PRG files on the image, and the tool used will generate the directory.

 

Alas if you have a bunch of T64 images, you can extract the PRG from each of those (so-called single filed programs) and store onto one or many D64 images.

 

How the SD slot on the C64 Mini will function, if you can have swap lists, if its emulator is powerful enough to enable true drive emulation is too early to say right now, but at least T64 through PRG to D64 should not be a problem.

[White Flame]

CRTs really don't really contain a PRG file in any meaningful sense. Especially when it come to utility cartridges, their functionality is very much dependent on banking and hardware integration, which is named but not described in the CRT format. Emulators contain the actual knowledge of what the various cart types need integration-wise in order to run.

 

But yeah, the simplest non-banking game carts would be reasonable candidates for conversion to PRG, by adding some bootstrap/launch code as well as banking out some of the built-in ROMs depending on the cart's size.

[carlsson]

Fair enough, just in case someone would want to run utility cartridges like e.g. TFC3 on their C64 Mini. Frankly I don't know why the emulator would be restricted to the D64 format if it e.g. has a version of VICE that itself supports all those formats from the same SD card.

[+OLD CS1]

[thetick1]

The review is pretty cool. I'm just very glad to see a quality, new retro console actually shipped!

 

I have 2 C64s / 2 1541 DD in the game room and also a C64DTV in the living room, so I will not be getting this one. Regardless this is pretty cool product but needs to have a smoother way to load many different games from USB. Also it would have been nice to have 3 USB ports as I'm sure the virtual keyboard would be agonizing. The video/audio delay is expected but seems pretty minimal so hopefully only hard core enthisests would even notice.

 

The board review was great. A20 running linux with board pins for SD card and serial/JTAG will make this baby a retro gamer toy as hardware mods are likely being worked on now.

 

I would like to buy the full sized North American version with a functional keyboard if that version ever ships! 2 USB ports would be fine for this model. I'm also assuming the USB game load would be a smooth process by the time full version ships.

 

And finally my brother is interested in getting one of these when the North American version is out. He's not much of gamer but did ask about getting a modern console for the living room to play the c64 games he remembers.

Edited March 26, 2018 by thetick1

[Eltigro]

Yeah... came here to post the 8-Bit Guy's video. He did an excellent review of it, I think. I kinda wanted one before and still thinking about it.

[ToddL]

I was under the impression that you'd be able to switch between NTSC and PAL, but based on The 8-Bit Guy's video it seems like a PAL unit is being sold in Europe and a different NTSC unit will be sold in North America.

[Greg2600]

Seems okay, but I won't buy until they can improve (custom) game loading.

[White Flame]

I'd still like to see a review that compares the performance with a RPi3 running VICE, and especially break down how good the SID and CRT settings are.

 

But I'm not the market for this; if you're already doing a lot of emulation, you've surpassed what this offers, probably even for a family room TV device.

[Swami]

Im still concerned about latency. 130ms and is that tv model dependent? Audio is over 600ms.

 

Also the joystick. How good is it?

 

Will the USA release be better?

[carlsson]

I understand there was a firmware update last Friday, May 11 which addresses some issues like input lag. Exactly how much improvements it means in practise is unknown to me, but it really seems like they're trying to support their customers in an evolving process. Supposedly once they have distribution in North America, I'm sure those units will at least have the latest available firmware, even if more updates may be in order over time.

[+OLD CS1]

Color me impressed at this point.

[Swami]

Anyone know if the PAL titles on this one will run by SD card on the North American one, or do you need this European one to play PAL roms and the North American one to play NTSC?

[carlsson]

Perhaps they will sell a device that always emulates a PAL C64, but designed so it outputs a HDMI signal better compatible with North American TV sets? After all, the division of PAL and NTSC is obsoleted when it comes to new products, though other differences in video format seem to still remain.

[+frankodragon]

Ashens also did a review on the C64 Mini and he wasn't impressed with the controller and the lack of USB ports.