Metal Jesus Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 There's the cartridge generation. Then the spinning disc generation. Then the PC installer generation. And currently the DLC/online generation. ..what next? Clearly it will be the eyes flickering, downloading now, VR experiences of 2199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Seems like they're scum that go against the wishes of the people who developed the software they're exploiting for free. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sq72ra It's shady stuff like this along with the Retron 5 business that will discourage future contributions to free software under General Public License. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Jesus Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It's shady stuff like this along with the Retron 5 business that will discourage future contributions to free software under General Public License. I ended up talking to Daniel (libretro) for about 2 and half hours the other night... this situation is way more complex than it seems. He asked me to include a disclosure statement in the video, which I was happy to do. I guess they need to change their licensing wording if they want to have more control over who uses their software and for what... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Jesus Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Here is my PREVIEW VIDEO of the Seedi prototype: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I ended up talking to Daniel (libretro) for about 2 and half hours the other night... this situation is way more complex than it seems. Actually, it's pretty damn simple. They don't like that someone is making money off their work but they don't have a legal leg to stand on to fight it because that is allowed with open source projects. If they had legal grounds to stop it they would have taken their concerns to the Free Software Foundation but they won't because they know they're not in the right here and the Seedi guys are complying with the licensing terms. So instead they take their complaints to Twitter and try to shame the company into submission. I like the Libretro guys, there's nothing that will end the respect I have for them but I feel that these tactics are completely beneath them and it makes me question their commitment to open source when they attack a company that is complying with the license Libretro chose to use. Open source means open source whether they like it or not. It's not exactly the same but it is similar to public domain. Can you release a film into the public domain and then say "yes, it's in the public domain, but you have to pay me $5 every time you watch it. Thx!" No. You can't do that, it defeats the purpose of public domain. Just like adding extra conditions to an open source license, as they're trying to do here, is not a valid use of an open source license because then it's no longer open source. This is not new information to Libretro. They had the same problem with Hyperkin and the Retron5. However, that was a situation where a company was covertly using open source software and wiping their ass with their licensing obligations. This is not the same. I don't think I've ever seen a crowdfunding project try to adhere to open source licenses to the level that Seedi is. I know that they've had other issues like not being forthcoming with what kind of Pi they're using, but open source is not one of their problems. Seedi is operating in the right licensing wise. If Libretro doesn't like it then Open Source is probably not the license for them. I know on Twitter they mentioned that Seedi "spit in their face" and broke a "gentleman's agreement" and if that's what this is all about then they need to be up front with that and show us what happened. And of course neither of those things have anything to do with open source. You don't have to get along with the people who use your open source software, that's another condition you can't tack on to the license. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Jesus Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Seedi is operating in the right licensing wise. If Libretro doesn't like it then Open Source is probably not the license for them. I know on Twitter they mentioned that Seedi "spit in their face" and broke a "gentleman's agreement" and if that's what this is all about then they need to be up front with that and show us what happened. And of course neither of those things has anything to do with open source. You don't have to get along with the people who use your open source software, that's another condition you can't tack on to the license. This is where he and I landed after our long chat...and you are 100% right. But try explaining that in 140 characters on twitter to people who feel they have moral battles to fight... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 SD&R thank you very much. I've been hoping to see a nice post made like that and did back when the self indignant nerd rage hit the iffy Retron 5 but at least there they had some grounds to stand on. As long as the Seedi people comply and there's no legal abuses to smother them with they can just groan and grouse like babies but it is what it is. Don't make code public if you don't want it used if you don't properly set it up to be legally blocked from usage. Isn't the MALI400 GPU what is in the New3DS? If I'm not off on that, gives an idea of the graphics cap/performance potential of sorts. Looks decent I could even see caring about that compared to that retrofreak device given it can like that fire up whatever system roms too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Jesus Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Isn't the MALI400 GPU what is in the New3DS? If I'm not off on that, gives an idea of the graphics cap/performance potential of sorts. Looks decent I could even see caring about that compared to that retrofreak device given it can like that fire up whatever system roms too. The Mali400 is a couple years old...but looking at this demo, it certainly seems like it could run most mid90s era games just fine: https://youtu.be/3OX9cLKDEdo?t=4m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It's funny how "classic some of these SOCs are. Here's an Anandtech story from 2011 https://www.anandtech.com/show/4760/arms-mali400-mp4-is-the-fastest-smartphone-gpufor-now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataridave Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 MetalJesusRocks had the Seedi in a YouTube video today. It looks cool, but whoever’s making it decided not to get the copyrighted BIOS files, and that’s annoying. How the heck is an average Joe Schmo like me supposed to legally get a hold of those files? Email people at Sega and Sony Computer Entertainment, assuming I even know (I don’t) who to contact?? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=PlayStation+bios+download 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 There's this paradise for emu and they tend to have such things, other than Nintendo first party stuff due to a pull request -- at least from the publicly viewed website that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 I agree, DJ. What I'd want, theoretically, is a system like this but with retro controller inputs. Or, just Genesis pin controller ports but the option to buy converter cables for Turbo Grafx and Neo Geo pads. If something had those options, plus the bonus option of running MAME (like this does) without the need of extra hardware in order to have said controller ports, I'd be more ready to provide my money, and might be more comfortable with the idea of selling my modded Duo for a more modern replacement that would theoretically last longer. In this case though, the Cart/controller port add on looks almost laughably last minute, and the system as a whole still doesn't give me the confidence it's genuinely real. Anyone notice the clear green casing "limited edition" version console they have on their listing doesn't even have any components in it? It's just a hollow green shell. They also claim their PS3-knock off pad they admit they got from a supplier will somehow come with a matching clear green shell, despite the fact they've made it very clear they're not actually making the controllers, but simply buying pre-existing pads from China. Like I mentioned before, the one that came in a little pc case about a year or two ago looked like a much more realistic vision, and that didn't even release. I have a tough time believing what looks like an external DVD drive in a cradle is somehow the answer for all my retro cd-based console needs. And I'm sorry, but Seedi? Really? The name doesn't help quell my fears... Colors and controller shells are minor details in the scheme of things. And the name Seedi,despite how it sounds, might turn out to be pleasantly practical and apple to an equally practical product. --- The external controller/cartridge thing is an off-the-shelf Retron product IIRC. Perhaps something like this doesn't need redesigning. And I'd rather not wait for all custom design details to get worked out. It in and of itself could be its own kickstarter. I use 4 ready-made controller boards by default when I'm commissioned to build an emulator rig. More if want them. Off-the-shelf is good. It's what they're there for! --- When buying one of these newfangled retro-replacement systems not everything is going to be complete and 100% included. It isn't reasonable to expect that. The old original systems always had optional and upgrade controllers and other gadgets. --- My only concern here is the emulator authors vs hardware builders. Seems there are more problems cropping up about licensing terms and who can use what. It's an ongoing issue. Maybe there's going to lockouts or tivoisation on either the hardware or software side as a less than ideal solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I've been following this campaign and it surprises me that we haven't seen any significant surge in pledges since Metal Jesus' video. I expected it to get fully funded within hours of it going up. I thought MJ's video was great, it showed the system works well in some areas but needs improvement in others. He also explained a delicate issue of the risk that goes with crowdfunding in a very fair way. Maybe a little too well, if that's ever a bad thing (for Seedi maybe). I'm still watching this campaign play out and I'm sure they'll get a little surge towards the end but I wonder if it'll take them to the goal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Perhaps the problem isn't as much the campaign but the host. Kickstarter doesn't take your money unless you hit 100%+ of the goal. I thought indiegogo just takes it. Perhaps people are more justifiably nervous given all the other sopping turd consoles and even game projects that failed on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Does anyone know of a place to track crowdfunding participation overall? I know about the trackers/predictors for individual campaigns, and of course Kickstarter has self-serving cumulative things like this, but I'd love to see a simple line graph of the number of people/dollars funding projects over time. I'll bet it looks like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It's the creator's choice. They can go with "flexible" or "fixed" campaign. Flexible is the one where the creator gets the money regardless of the goal. Fixed works like KickStarter and it's what Seedi chose so good on them for that. But I'm glad that IGG has that negative reputation that all of their campaigns take the money regardless. It's what they cultivated with such a dumb practice. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 "This Seedi thing is someone's low-cost interpretation and variation on a homebrew emulation rig that is trying to appeal to all. You're paying for the time and assembly and configuration work really. It's nothing you can't do yourself if so motivated. You can build them on the cheap, less than $100. Or be elegant and sophisticated with high class hardware. Anodized metallic keyboard, automotive grade case finish, joystick/flightstick with all metal construction. Dual m.2 drives. SuperCapacitor 3 minute battery backup. The options are limitless.So with Seedi you're essentially paying for the cheap hardware and a bit extra for someone to bring it all together for you. Sounds reasonable to me." I can agree with this sentiment. Think of early home computers. Sure, you could buy a S-100 based kit, put it together yourself, customize it, get it to your specs, etc. But it was much easier to buy a fully assembled Apple II. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It's the creator's choice. They can go with "flexible" or "fixed" campaign. Flexible is the one where the creator gets the money regardless of the goal. Fixed works like KickStarter and it's what Seedi chose so good on them for that. But I'm glad that IGG has that negative reputation that all of their campaigns take the money regardless. It's what they cultivated with such a dumb practice. Indeed, the entire concept of flexible funding completely undermines the system of crowdfunding. Essentially, crowdfunding is supposed to be a negotiation between the backers and the creator. The creator promises to make the thing IF the money needed is raised, and the backers agree to fund it IF there is enough interest. If either IF fails, everyone walks away with no harm done. Flexible funding screws the backers, since it means they'll lose their money, and screws a legit creator, since they now have to take this money, obligated to produce something that might now be beyond their means. The only people who benefit from This are the ones who take the money and run. And that is why I will never touch indiegogo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 The Mali400 is a couple years old...but looking at this demo, it certainly seems like it could run most mid90s era games just fine: Yes. And the games it's running are even older. An unspoken-of advantage is the Mali is a known quantity. We know exactly what it can and cannot do. There is no room for uncertainty in the claims and promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Seems like they're scum that go against the wishes of the people who developed the software they're exploiting for free. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sq72ra They are? If the term of the license permits such activity I don't see a problem. Other than someone not wanting someone to do something I don't see an issue. Wishes aren't always granted. I ended up talking to Daniel (libretro) for about 2 and half hours the other night... this situation is way more complex than it seems. He asked me to include a disclosure statement in the video, which I was happy to do. I guess they need to change their licensing wording if they want to have more control over who uses their software and for what... Can you elaborate on the hidden complexity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTIGuy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) Think of early home computers. Sure, you could buy a S-100 based kit, put it together yourself, customize it, get it to your specs, etc. But it was much easier to buy a fully assembled Apple II. BUT The S-100 kit would run COMPLETELY different software and use different peripherals. Its like comparing a built-of-parts PC w/ a 2.5 Ghz CPU and 1 gig of RAM vs. a 68k Mac in the 2000s Edited October 12, 2017 by TheTIGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I didn't know that there was an option on that dumb funding site. You're right, even as a choice it's a choice that should never have been given and deserve to have people think they just take it and run. Problem is Seedi is saddled with that belief. If you have to do this, use kickstarter as it's an all or nothing only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Seedi console BS? WHO SEEN THAT COMING? You know a funny thing? IMHO Metal Jesus video was fair pointing out the flaws and things not working too well. ALSO a couple weeks ago there was another youtuber, I do not recall the name, typically a Sega fan apparently had a prototype and he had a long video that pretty much showed it as being flawless, perfect and he was acting totally supportive, I am guessing he was in on it or getting some type of kickback because I went looking for the same video a couple days ago to post on atariage and I am positive the video has Totally disappeared, I think in my history I found the link and the video was "NO LONGER AVAILABLE" lol, BIG SURPRISE, it is a external CD hooked up to a Orange Pi, WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL FALLING FOR THIS CRAP???????? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=810vxe3xcnY&app=desktop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You're right! That's guy's video is gone! It was from SegaLordX. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9VBrDDYPBs I wish someone had saved it, I didn't get a chance to watch. All we have is this still apparently: However, the deletion might not have anything to do with Seedi. He deleted his whole channel and Twitter. From a few people in the know it seems he's having some mental health issues. Sucks, I hope he's okay, he seems to have a lot of loving fans. Source: https://twitter.com/jeremycline1975/status/918353103841263616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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