CRT TV vs Modern TV for retro games

[Keatah]

Doesn't LED have burn-in concerns? Unless you meant LED backlit.

 

That..

[Keatah]

 

Crazy! I've got a few flats and a fishbowl and I've never noticed.

 

Sometimes I look at my lone curved screen (a 13" SonyI found at the dump), which is later, and not very curved at all, and compare it to my memory of my 19" Emerson (or RCA, can't recall which) I had in the early 90s as a kid....which I swear had a bubble curve so big that the centerpoint of the screen was a minimum of 2 inches ahead of the corners!

Oh, they're out there. Believe it. Some of the older SD flats had a tendency to compress the image towards the center of the screen (or technically, probably the sides got stretched). So a scrolling background would do this trippy warp thing, would shrink down and expand back out. So yes, there are "fishbowl or die!" folks.

 

The cheaper the set, the more curvature they'd sport. It takes extra electronics (which sony excelled at) to set up a non-linear velocity in the beam to compensate for different distances at the edges vs the center. Ideally, every phosphor would be equidistant from the gun. In a fishbowl, that is so. In a flatscreen, the beam, moving at a single fixed velocity will cover more distance at the edges than it will at the center. So you stretch and compress and the stretch again. Repeat. If you have electronics to compensate, it will look perfectly linear because the beam speeds up in the center and slows at the edge.

 

Test it out with your garden hose on the garage door.

[Asaki]

Looked at CRTs on eBay for the heck of it, and found one of those infamous "naked person in the reflection" auctions @_@ I feel so lucky.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27-RCA-ColorTrack-Stereo-Monitor-TV-Model-F26051EM-With-Remote-TV-Works-Good/222691759311?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49056%26meid%3Dc30a5a71a94543a796a10990404e8709%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D222691759311&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253A0d696b2c-bb11-11e7-9ee0-74dbd180fee7%257Cparentrq%253A5dc5ae0015f0aa14438744fffffe4ab2%257Ciid%253A1

[juansolo]

I sold my scaler and have all my older consoles now running on CRTs. In addition to this I've been acquiring CRTs when people have been binning them or they've been going cheap. Tweaking them for good pictures is not for the feint of heart (huge voltages kicking around in the back of a CRT. Really don't even think about going in there unless you know what you're doing). But I've picked up a load of them for buttons of late as everyone has been offloading them (I now have a fair few spares should I require them). Sharpness of image entirely depends on the quality of the unit and how well set up it is. BVM/PVM monitors can be stupidly sharp and look just goddamn gorgeous. Domestic sets and monitors might not be as good, but again, a bit of set up can do wonders for them.

 

It's not a nostalgia thing for me. I genuinely believe that some things look better through a CRT. For example Cannon Fodder on the Amiga. Put that on your panel and it just looks shit. The characters are made up of so few pixels and they all just blend into one another with the background. However run it through a period Commodore/Philips monitor and it just looks right and actually brilliant. The same goes for a lot of old consoles that just were designed with CRTs in mind. The most obvious being the N64 that looks terrible on a panel. The anti-aliasing that was put in there to look better on CRTs just looking plain nasty on a panel.

 

There is a point when things changed however. Probably the original Xbox, when the panel became king. But I personally prefer all the previous consoles/computers on CRT. Yes that does mean RGB and sourcing cables and mods to get the best out of them. Which I know a lot of people are not prepared to do. In which case you're compromising anyhow so your picture is going to be bad regardless of what you run it through. But modding them, using good cables, using quality monitors can yield lovely results. It's a lot of faff, but amazingly it's not a lot of money at the moment because people are as good as giving away the displays.

[Video]

Yes, setup makes a hell of a difference. You can get a calibration DVD on the cheap, and even using the onboard remote settings can net you a great picture, even panels need setup. It always surprised me how many people never set up their sets, or only jack up brightness to the max finding up with horrible washed out colors, (or bleeding on CRTs) most people don't know, don't care, or whatever. Properly adjusted sets also reduce wear on the TV, as well as your eyes.

[Kismet]

 

It doesn't stretch on a CRT (any more than it does on an HDTV with bars) does it?

 

 

 

Depends if you have a widescreen CRT. I do. You can tell it to pillar-box or stretch it.

 

That said, It is unplugged 99% of the time because the flyback transformer makes a high pitch noise. To me that high pitch whine is as bad as nails on a chalkboard.

[KeeperofLindblum]

Apparently I shouldn't have thrown the word "authentic" in my post near the front... I wasn't saying it with any sort of snobby or elitist intent I promise.

 

That's just generally what people want with CRT. The authentic experience of what the consoles were originally designed for. There's a reason CRT looks proper with these old systems... They were built with CRT TV setup in mind. That's not to say LCD is incorrect or wrong in any way... It's just that they were originally intended to connect to CRT TVs with the blur and zero input.

 

Either way, get what suits ya! I'm fine with breaking free of an upscaler, but I don't feel like investing in a CRT setup either. Maybe if I could get one for basically nothing with little effort... (IE not finding random craigslist ads or anything along that line.) Basically it's gonna have to be I trip over it or get the random chance of it.

Edited October 28, 2017 by KeeperofLindblum

[NinjaWarrior]

You need component cables.

 

I was using Component Cables, Same Results

[Blazing Lazers]

Threads like these make me wonder if I'm the only one on here using a late-model HDMI equipped CRT for newer consoles like the 360, PS3, and beyond. Even in just 720p they games look amazing!

[keepdreamin]

Threads like these make me wonder if I'm the only one on here using a late-model HDMI equipped CRT for newer consoles like the 360, PS3, and beyond. Even in just 720p they games look amazing!

 

While they support that resolution, I don't think any of those sets actually display 720P. What you're most likely seeing is an upscale to 1080i.

[djour]

The reason I don't use

 

Threads like these make me wonder if I'm the only one on here using a late-model HDMI equipped CRT for newer consoles like the 360, PS3, and beyond. Even in just 720p they games look amazing!

The problem is that these CRTs are HI-Def. The games still don't look quite right and the light guns won't work with these sets. You get the negatives of CRT and Hi-Def all in one set.

[Austin]

The problem is that these CRTs are HI-Def. The games still don't look quite right and the light guns won't work with these sets. You get the negatives of CRT and Hi-Def all in one set.

 

He's talking about using them with modern systems, not classic systems. Traditional light guns don't even exist for modern systems.

 

I can vouch that modern systems look pretty great on HD CRTs (I've owned two different types now). I can't say it's worth the hassle of getting them into your home though (unless the price is "free", as Blazing Lazer's was).

[NE146]

 

He's talking about using them with modern systems, not classic systems. Traditional light guns don't even exist for modern systems.

 

 

Is the PS2 not considered modern anymore? Wow time moves fast

[djour]

 

He's talking about using them with modern systems, not classic systems.

I know. My point was that they run the middle ground of older and newer tech. Unfortunately, while they do both, they aren't the best at either, making them a mediocre choice.

 

They top out at 1080i, they suffer from the same convergence issues as a traditional CRT, they are heavy AF (190 lbs for the 34 inch), and the largest one was 40". In the end HD CRT falls short of what a modern LCD can do.

 

Unfortunately, because they are HD, they don't make the cut for older systems either. No scanlines, no light guns, 16:9 orientation.

 

I looked at these when setting up my game room and decided it was better to have a SD CRT and an LCD to fit the needs of modern and retro gaming.

[djour]

 

Is the PS2 not considered modern anymore? Wow time moves fast

If you blink, what you just bought is old.

 

The PS2 will be 18 years old in March, the OG XBox 18 in 2 weeks, PS3 is 11 years old and the 360 is 12. Even the Wii is 11 years old.

[F34R]

I have a 36" Trinitron and we love it for retro gaming. It only cost me $10 and a hernia to get it into place. If you have room for one, go for it.

 

As far as a comparison, here is my shameless plug for a video we made on the subject:

 

That was a nice video lol. The dialogue was funny for sure. Sub'd.

 

That large Sony you have in there. Would love to know your opinions on getting one now. What model is it, etc.?

 

I personally use a Sony KV-27FS100 for N64 and anything before that. I don't mind using a 22" AOC computer LCD for some capture via HDMI if need be, but I have the gear to do captures from the component/CRT/NES/SNES, etc. as well.

 

I prefer CRT for the older consoles.

[djour]

That was a nice video lol. The dialogue was funny for sure. Sub'd.

 

That large Sony you have in there. Would love to know your opinions on getting one now. What model is it, etc.?

 

I personally use a Sony KV-27FS100 for N64 and anything before that. I don't mind using a 22" AOC computer LCD for some capture via HDMI if need be, but I have the gear to do captures from the component/CRT/NES/SNES, etc. as well.

 

I prefer CRT for the older consoles.

Thanks for the sub and the compliment. We use AverMedia Live Gamer Portable for HDMI and component. We had a Roxio when we did the Atari 2600 Adventure, but the picture was pure shite.

 

That Sony was my holy grail. KV 36FV310 and I picked it up about a month ago. Until then, I also had the KV-xxFS100 model (a 32" that can be seen in the Saturday Morning Showdown video). While I really liked the FS100, the FV310s are often referred to as the best consumer level SD CRTs ever made. The picture seems a little better than the FS100, and it added a second component input as well as a separate audio connection for the S-Video. I previously had to use an audio splitter with my setup.

 

I would rather have the 32" instead of the 36", but it's not like I can go to the store and pick one up. I searched Craigslist off and on for a few months before one came available. IMO, If you find a FV310, GET IT.

[Blazing Lazers]

The reason I don't use

 

The problem is that these CRTs are HI-Def. The games still don't look quite right and the light guns won't work with these sets. You get the negatives of CRT and Hi-Def all in one set.

 

Oh, I keep spare regular, SD CRTs around for the lightgun stuff. Which is mostly Virtua Cop on the Saturn, plus a few other Dreamcast lightgun gems. Wii "lightgun" games that use the motion detector bar thing seem to work well on all types of sets. All other games from older RF only systems (which I usually run through a VCR) all the way up to Component output systems like my modded Xbox and PS2 look really good Even my Nuon players look good on them. Rather than getting the worst parts of both new and old, I see it as getting the best of both. I get the 4:3 format (which actually works really well for a lot of game types), the black and white color depths, little to no input lag, plenty of built-in inputs of literally everything from RF coax to HDMI, and with the HDMI high enough for me 720p and 1080i resolutions. Blu-Rays and DVDs look great on these types of sets.

 

He's talking about using them with modern systems, not classic systems. Traditional light guns don't even exist for modern systems.

 

I can vouch that modern systems look pretty great on HD CRTs (I've owned two different types now). I can't say it's worth the hassle of getting them into your home though (unless the price is "free", as Blazing Lazer's was).

 

Yep, and I remain in your debt for giving this set to a good home

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/220148-pendingon-hold-free-samsung-hd-crt-4x3-television-dcmdva-area/?hl=%2Bfree+%2Bcrt+%2Bva&do=findComment&comment=2894683

 

...if anyone is interested in looking for something similar.

 

I know. My point was that they run the middle ground of older and newer tech. Unfortunately, while they do both, they aren't the best at either, making them a mediocre choice.

 

They top out at 1080i, they suffer from the same convergence issues as a traditional CRT, they are heavy AF (190 lbs for the 34 inch), and the largest one was 40". In the end HD CRT falls short of what a modern LCD can do.

 

Unfortunately, because they are HD, they don't make the cut for older systems either. No scanlines, no light guns, 16:9 orientation.

 

I looked at these when setting up my game room and decided it was better to have a SD CRT and an LCD to fit the needs of modern and retro gaming.

As stated above, I've also obtained other sets as spares, both full and widescreen. One of which can be seen here (and is still available):

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/256741-interest-check-flat-wide-hd-crt-whdmi-in-and-remote/?hl=%2Bhdmi+%2Bcrt&do=findComment&comment=3588686

 

Just of a sample size of HDMI CRTs that I've seen in the wild, they're MUCH more common in Widescreen format than in fullscreen. I actually prefer to have more vertical space, though. Vertical shmups (say, Blazing Lazers, to give a totally random example), FPSs, and most older games that were made with square screens in mind are notably more enjoyable that way. My widescreen CRTs are great for side-scrolling shmups and platformers, and of course movies. Just from having experienced so many of these and of modern LCD and LED flatpanels, I'd give an edge to the HDMI CRT over any LCD, but not over an OLED set. It's the OLED sets that finally equal and even surpass even high-end CRT sets in terms of color quality, even black levels. It's really noticeable if you happen to watch a lot of older black and white movies and TV shows. And of course, no CRT does 4K.

[Asaki]

I was using Component Cables, Same Results

Just sensitive to the minute amount of lag that the wireless Wiimotes create?

[djour]

 

Oh, I keep spare regular, SD CRTs around for the lightgun stuff. Which is mostly Virtua Cop on the Saturn, plus a few other Dreamcast lightgun gems. Wii "lightgun" games that use the motion detector bar thing seem to work well on all types of sets. All other games from older RF only systems (which I usually run through a VCR) all the way up to Component output systems like my modded Xbox and PS2 look really good Even my Nuon players look good on them. Rather than getting the worst parts of both new and old, I see it as getting the best of both. I get the 4:3 format (which actually works really well for a lot of game types), the black and white color depths, little to no input lag, plenty of built-in inputs of literally everything from RF coax to HDMI, and with the HDMI high enough for me 720p and 1080i resolutions. Blu-Rays and DVDs look great on these types of sets.

Not sure if I have room for a 3rd set, but now I'm curious as to how it would look. I'm going to look for one locally so I can do a side-by-side comparison.

[mbd30]

If you blink, what you just bought is old.

 

The PS2 will be 18 years old in March, the OG XBox 18 in 2 weeks, PS3 is 11 years old and the 360 is 12. Even the Wii is 11 years old.

 

The PS2 is about as old as the Colecovision when the PS2 came out. But it still seems far more modern than the Colecovision in the year 2000.

[Flojomojo]

The PS2 is about as old as the Colecovision when the PS2 came out. But it still seems far more modern than the Colecovision in the year 2000.

 

It's always so depressing to think about stuff like that! But in 1982, the year 2000 was The Distant Future.

 

[Blazing Lazers]

Not sure if I have room for a 3rd set, but now I'm curious as to how it would look. I'm going to look for one locally so I can do a side-by-side comparison.

They are worth keeping a watch out for, especially since they've never been too common. I've only ever seen sets made in 2004-2006 and then only on higher end sets. One of mine, nice Panasonic widescreen, was actually a floor display unit made in 2005 that I got from a local TV store as they were closing in 2015. They had it set to a "VIVID" display mode that at times looks almost HDR-like.

 

For your search, it'll likely be up to Craigslist. I still watch for these, but as anybody keeping an eye out for CRTs on Craigslist knows is that nobody ever takes proper pictures of the inputs. You'll find yourself messaging a lot of people before lucking into one.

[djour]

For your search, it'll likely be up to Craigslist. I still watch for these, but as anybody keeping an eye out for CRTs on Craigslist knows is that nobody ever takes proper pictures of the inputs. You'll find yourself messaging a lot of people before lucking into one.

You're preaching to the choir on that one. I spent years upgrading CRTs from Craigslist and thrift stores, though Goodwill no longer has CRTs in my area. It's to the point I can nearly tell the model of Trinitron or I'Art from the front bezel. Not because I'm a savant, but the amount of Google searching I've done figuring out if a drive across town was worth it.

 

BTW, anyone looking for Sony Trinitrons in the KV xxFV310 models (xx being the screen size), they have a unique border around the screen that has a nearly blue hue.

[mbd30]

 

It's always so depressing to think about stuff like that! But in 1982, the year 2000 was The Distant Future.

 

 

You can tell that we're kind of hitting a wall in technology. We're as chronologically distant from the PS3 and XBOX 360 as those consoles were from the original Playstation and N64. But the leap from PS3 to PS4 does not seem as big as that.