ColorComputerStore Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Hello, I picked up an Atari 800XL a few months back and will soon start to enjoy it. I understand that they came with BASIC revision B and later Atari models had a less buggy version called revision C. To upgrade the 800XL, are the two options (1) buy a revision C cartridge or (2) upgrade the BASIC ROM? For option 2, would I just buy something like this off of eBay? https://www.ebay.com/itm/162564860327?ul_noapp=true I do have a EPROM burner so is another option to find revision C online and burn it to EPROM? In either case, is it a matter of popping out revision B ROM and putting in revision C? (assuming the ROMs are socketed.) Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 All methods should work. If you dont find the Rev. C ROM theres an article on how to patch B to C. http://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n5/revisioncconverter.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 burn it to rom and swap it up.. that's the best way to go about it... but you could cannibalize the rev c cart to do so.. that leave things looking nice and official inside the Atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) Hello, I picked up an Atari 800XL a few months back and will soon start to enjoy it. I understand that they came with BASIC revision B and later Atari models had a less buggy version called revision C. To upgrade the 800XL, are the two options (1) buy a revision C cartridge or (2) upgrade the BASIC ROM? For option 2, would I just buy something like this off of eBay? https://www.ebay.com/itm/162564860327?ul_noapp=true I do have a EPROM burner so is another option to find revision C online and burn it to EPROM? In either case, is it a matter of popping out revision B ROM and putting in revision C? (assuming the ROMs are socketed.) Thanks Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming? IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs. If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad. But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics Edited October 27, 2017 by zzip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming? IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs. If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad. But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics IIRC it was Rev.A(cartridge) that would lock-up. Rev.B added some extra bytes to the program every time it was saved, the extra bytes could be removed by using LIST to write the file to disk, then using ENTER to reload it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 A and B would lockup. B was worse. B also make your programs grow in size when saving/loading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 While you're at it, burn extra Rev. C eproms and replace the ROM in the old Atari Basic carts too Learning how to use the eprom burner I got from DropCheck has been on my to-do list for a long time.. I have lots of 600XL's and 800XL's that would be an easy chip swap upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 While you're at it, burn extra Rev. C eproms and replace the ROM in the old Atari Basic carts too Learning how to use the eprom burner I got from DropCheck has been on my to-do list for a long time.. I have lots of 600XL's and 800XL's that would be an easy chip swap upgrade. It wouldn't just be a chip swap in the Rev.A BASIC cartridge, its PCB used 2-4k 24-pin ROM chips. I have done it using a 16k EPROM cartridge PCB, disabling a trace to the edge connector as per the post linked below to make it only 8k. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/178027-memtop-issue-with-cartridge/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2223087 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColorComputerStore Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Depends what you want Basic for, do you plan on programming? IIRC, the worst bug in Rev B was that it would sometimes freeze while you were typing in programs. If you aren't typing in programs, then B wasn't all that bad. But if you are planning on doing Basic programming, you may want to check out one of the improved 3rd party basics Yes, I plan to program. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColorComputerStore Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 If I burn an Eprom, what modern Eprom is recommended? I have a TL866A Eprom programmer. As for the cartridge route. The C version is the one with the silver label? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundGammon Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Compute magazine had a program that would copy basic in to ram, load a patch that would turn it into Rev. C! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 My 800XL came with Rev C. Check your machine before you go thru the effort to swap out roms. This link will tell you how. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/231854-in-search-of-basic-b-cartridge/?do=findComment&comment=3114448 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just buy the chip on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Atari-800-XL-computer-console-C-Basic-IC-chip-genuine-part-C024947A-01-AMI/162564860327?hash=item25d99ee9a7:g:BmsAAOSw7ehXRtWU It's cheap and is OEM!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) good place to deal with and to be honest good prices and sometime you can make good deal with them... better place to get stuff. and yes mostly cheaper with shipping than the places here in the states... they have a websites too... Edited October 28, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColorComputerStore Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just buy the chip on eBay https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Atari-800-XL-computer-console-C-Basic-IC-chip-genuine-part-C024947A-01-AMI/162564860327?hash=item25d99ee9a7:g:BmsAAOSw7ehXRtWU It's cheap and is OEM!! Actually, I saw that and it was one reason that got me to post. I had asked the seller if it is just a matter of plugging the chip into the internal ROM socket and the seller said they didn't know. Kinda made me nervous that they didn't know. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I you have the socket it fits in it will work... not all machines are socketed... and some pretty weird stuff is out in the wild... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Actually, I saw that and it was one reason that got me to post. I had asked the seller if it is just a matter of plugging the chip into the internal ROM socket and the seller said they didn't know. Kinda made me nervous that they didn't know. Thanks It's a 24 pin ROM, just like the one already in there. If your mobo has sockets, it's plug it in and you're off. Easy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 If I burn an Eprom, what modern Eprom is recommended? I have a TL866A Eprom programmer. As for the cartridge route. The C version is the one with the silver label? Cartridge route you refer to is null and void being false flag fake news as in you can't get there from here. Atari used extra special custom chips for all their game cartridges with odd pin outs and chip select polarities such that a standard eprom equivalent doesn't exist. So you can't just plug and play. On purpose. Think about the piracy that would have existed if this hole were not plugged solid. 2364 at 300ns speed is the eprom used there, due to lack of popularity you may find that finding an eprom burner that does 2364 eproms may be a challenge. But if you have that and you have the code and you can find those eproms, then it's a done deal. Otherwise you can purchase an adapter board that converts a standard 2764 over to 2364 pinout and use that to sport a 2764 on your XL/XE mother board. http://store.go4retro.com/2364-adapter/ I've done this manually using a 2nd stacked socket but it is a hack job and it looks like a hack job. And that part can't be fixed. The 23xx adapter also available there might be made to work for Atari game cartridge eprom if it were a SINGLE 8k chip, but the vast majority of game cartridges are using two 4k chips which don't fit the 2364 pin wise to begin with. Cartridge route then really doesn't exist, takeaway is it's not plug and play precisely because Atari made it that way on purpose. eBay guy is just being honest, he's never done it so he wouldn't know but that's the exact chip you need and it just drops in there and works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) Use TurboBasic or Basic XL/XE. No reason for generic Atari basic any more. Edited October 28, 2017 by scotty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) so why couldn't he dump the rev c rom and burn it to an eprom and put it in his machine exactly? Or get a rom floating about the net? and do the same.... In any event I still suggest the Atari Freak route... it will work... it will be very clean and cheapest.. as for using the cartridge ...rev c came on cart and evryone can plug in a cartridge.. you loose the cartridge port for anything else though... and I have put a prom in a generic cart with basic c burned to it... but again the best most beautiful way is to buy the chip and put it in to the mobo Edited October 28, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) It wouldn't just be a chip swap in the Rev.A BASIC cartridge, its PCB used 2-4k 24-pin ROM chips. I have done it using a 16k EPROM cartridge PCB, disabling a trace to the edge connector as per the post linked below to make it only 8k. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/178027-memtop-issue-with-cartridge/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2223087 thanks Bill, that's the way to take those useless rev a carts and make them useful, well the cart shell anyway. With all these new old stock and ancient hoards coming to the surface it was time to bring the info back to light. Edited October 28, 2017 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColorComputerStore Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Use TurboBasic or Basic XL/XE. No reason for generic Atari basic any more. Can you gives me links that would expand my knowledge on those two? I've never used an Atari so I'm not up to speed on the various BASICs. I assume with the two you recommended, the downside is only people with said BASICs can use programs written with them? Or do they compile to machine code? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Can you gives me links that would expand my knowledge on those two? I've never used an Atari so I'm not up to speed on the various BASICs. I assume with the two you recommended, the downside is only people with said BASICs can use programs written with them? Or do they compile to machine code? Thanks Turbo-Basic XL was released by Frank Ostrowski in 1985, it's compatible with Atari Basic but faster, compilable and with additional commands. At the end of this post you can find language and two manuals: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/176545-topic-for-newbies/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Most of the knowledge base can be found at http://seriouscomputerist.atariverse.com/pages/language/language.basic.htm# Turbo Basic and Basic XL/XE can except all of the Atari Basic syntax, but Atari Basic can not except any of the added improvements of TBXL or BASIC XL/XE. Atari basic can be compiled with MMG basic compiler or ABC datasoft compiler. Turbobasic also has a linker and runtime to combine source code to self loading file (com, or xex, or ANY extension you want to use. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Yes, I plan to program. Cheers Forget Atari Basic, get Tubobasic XL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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