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I will leave this little nugget from CJ that he posted in the Frogz thread however long ago regarding something he is/was working on:

 

It's working as intended. It's not working as players expect. I need to fix this, because regardless of if it is working or not people think it's broken, so in all practical ways it IS broken.

Play testing and listening to feedback is essential.

 

 

In 100% seriousness and my last attempt at providing feedback, if (we don't know, it's just me and WW) players expect the bats to be in the air, maybe they should? That would add another element to the game. You have bats in the air in the top half (or third or whatever) of the screen to contend with as well as zombies lower down. Maybe the bats only do damage a certain % of the time if you don't kill them. I don't know your story line, but maybe only some of the bats are infected and want to get at the hero, the others are just normal bats trying to eat mosquitos so they won't damage us. If I've got 7% health left, I know I need to watch both the air and land. If there's a large wave of zombies and I'm at 100% health, maybe I let 3 bats go to keep myself safer with the potential risk of a bit of health vs concentrating on the bats and having a zombie eat me causing larger damage.

 

This isn't just about the bats, of course, what we are telling you isn't out of malice. It's because there are many of us who have been telling you the same things, legitimately trying to help, for 3 games now. And we're met with the same resistance every single time. I don't know who all is in Reboot. I've only spoken to CJ a handful of times here in PMs. There isn't some secret "reboot haters" circle that has formed.

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I will leave this little nugget from CJ that he posted in the Frogz thread however long ago regarding something he is/was working on:

 

 

 

 

In 100% seriousness and my last attempt at providing feedback, if (we don't know, it's just me and WW) players expect the bats to be in the air, maybe they should? That would add another element to the game. You have bats in the air in the top half (or third or whatever) of the screen to contend with as well as zombies lower down. Maybe the bats only do damage a certain % of the time if you don't kill them. I don't know your story line, but maybe only some of the bats are infected and want to get at the hero, the others are just normal bats trying to eat mosquitos so they won't damage us. If I've got 7% health left, I know I need to watch both the air and land. If there's a large wave of zombies and I'm at 100% health, maybe I let 3 bats go to keep myself safer with the potential risk of a bit of health vs concentrating on the bats and having a zombie eat me causing larger damage.

 

This isn't just about the bats, of course, what we are telling you isn't out of malice. It's because there are many of us who have been telling you the same things, legitimately trying to help, for 3 games now. And we're met with the same resistance every single time. I don't know who all is in Reboot. I've only spoken to CJ a handful of times here in PMs. There isn't some secret "reboot haters" circle that has formed.

 

Well I suppose I should look at things differently. I get your version of the bats and I also get why you were asking why only 1 shot blew up the car. The thing was I was trying to make the player see a trashed car (because its all banged up) and then blow it up easily because of the fact that it has been beaten down so badly. But now that I think about it most players WOULD asume the car would take more shots to blow up because it is a CAR. regarding the wolf I can see how players who are unfamiliar with the skinwalker ranch stories could be confused as to why he takes so many shots and never actually dies.

 

You kind of do have to use a strategy similar to what you described with the bats the way the game is NOW its just not restricted to the top half of the screen. But I still get where you are coming from.

 

 

I need to consider how others will perceive certain things regardless of my intentions. I did include information about the wolf in the manual and it does explain that he cant actually be killed, but not everyone reads manuals. (Like me)

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Well I suppose I should look at things differently. I get your version of the bats and I also get why you were asking why only 1 shot blew up the car. The thing was I was trying to make the player see a trashed car (because its all banged up) and then blow it up easily because of the fact that it has been beaten down so badly. But now that I think about it most players WOULD asume the car would take more shots to blow up because it is a CAR. regarding the wolf I can see how players who are unfamiliar with the skinwalker ranch stories could be confused as to why he takes so many shots and never actually dies.

 

You kind of do have to use a strategy similar to what you described with the bats the way the game is NOW its just not restricted to the top half of the screen. But I still get where you are coming from.

 

 

I need to consider how others will perceive certain things regardless of my intentions. I did include information about the wolf in the manual and it does explain that he cant actually be killed, but not everyone reads manuals. (Like me)

This is one of the many reasons why extensive testing periods is important. The feedback can and should be taken to create a better game. Not just via bug fixes, but with gameplay alterations, enhancements and improvements. It's all a part of the process of polishing your product. It's a time consuming process, but it's arguably the most important part of it.

 

To be developing games, it is also important to be heavily invested into games yourself. You should understand what makes a game fun, and to do this involves having a lot of experience actually playing games. If you can't or don't do this, then it's even more important to heed the feedback from the folks that do.

Edited by Austin
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Well I suppose I should look at things differently. I get your version of the bats and I also get why you were asking why only 1 shot blew up the car. The thing was I was trying to make the player see a trashed car (because its all banged up) and then blow it up easily because of the fact that it has been beaten down so badly. But now that I think about it most players WOULD asume the car would take more shots to blow up because it is a CAR. regarding the wolf I can see how players who are unfamiliar with the skinwalker ranch stories could be confused as to why he takes so many shots and never actually dies.

 

You kind of do have to use a strategy similar to what you described with the bats the way the game is NOW its just not restricted to the top half of the screen. But I still get where you are coming from.

 

 

I need to consider how others will perceive certain things regardless of my intentions. I did include information about the wolf in the manual and it does explain that he cant actually be killed, but not everyone reads manuals. (Like me)

 

Well, that's a start.

 

Just a word of advice: If you now go back to your walled garden hate chamber facebook club and have a long rant about AtariAge, Reboot, etc.... don't expect any further sympathy.

 

I really hope you internalize all this advice, put the games before their release dates, and actually make something of quality that people would want to play someday. Honestly, this game isn't it. It's not bug free, it doesn't look particularly fun due to lack of game advancement (from the video) and the graphics glitch out. A tilt-gun isn't going to magically fix any of this, and sounds like it'll make it a hell of a lot worse. Consider not selling this, work on it until it really is finished, then come back and try another few rounds of play testing/feedback before even attempting to make a box and manuals. The manual should be the last thing, until you are done you don't know what you need to put in it.

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..... The manual should be the last thing, until you are done you don't know what you need to put in it.

... also consider you have proven time and time again that you (and your associates) are capable of producing nice packaging and manuals so if I were you I wouldn't even worry about it anymore.

 

That you already proved, so focus on the game content/mechanics etc.... the rest you can do apparently well and in somewhat short timespan (I believe at a point icemanxp300 was involved in the production but my memory fails me these days, be as it may whoever services you are using seems to be capable of delivering so that's not something to worry about).

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@Jeffery:The other points i picked up reading the earlier pages of this thread were:

 

1) You yourself weren't that keen on doing a zombie game, you sounded as if you felt like there was clearly a gap/demand for such a title, it made sense for it to be the basis of your next project.

 

Just make the type of games you want to make.

 

If they are fun, polished and playable, good word of mouth within the community will sell them.

 

Incentives like blood red carts etc are nice, but only carry a product so far.

 

It will live or die based how people view the game, not what it's packaged in.

 

2)You seem to be going down the Imagitec Design route of game production.....

 

A lot of annoucement, but your over stretching yourself.

 

In this thread alone before you'd finished Jagzombies, you showcased Retropia II on PC, said you'd started on your next project, which you wouldn't share on here but it involved a Gecko and there was talk of a Tempest 2000 Killing game.

 

Ambition is fantastic, but what's the rush to get so much underway? .

 

Also, i was reluctant to bring this next point up, but for better or worse, here goes:

 

People don't have it in for you or anyone on JSIII. ..

 

The very fact we are still here giving you our time, advice etc.

 

You yourself posted some bizzare claims about myself in the past, which i aren't worth mentioning,certain others went out of their way to discredit both myself and my research, Clint has been the victim of false claims of him having lost jaguar game code to give away,made by another person from there, yet he's kindly giving of his time to play test.

 

It's just nonsense..it's not helping the Jaguar community in anyway, it's not seeing better quality software released.

 

Let's draw a line under all of it and start going forward.

 

Take CJ's advice on board. .if this ends up being another excuse for a hate thread on JSIII..people will simply walk away and leave you to find your own path from here on in.

 

People do admire the fact your still coming up with new ideas, still coding, making games even though they aren't sometimes the type you really want to make.

 

There's a vast resource of coding experience and willing play testers etc on here and if you can tap into just a fraction of that, take on board all the critics that's been raised...

 

Your next project very well could be the Killer App you and everyone else has been waiting for.

 

I wish you all the very best for the future.

Edited by Lost Dragon
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I still wish you would look at the code

 

Send it over in a PM and I'll take a look. Just don't accuse me of anything regarding having access to it later. If you can't agree to that, don't bother. Sorry, but I've learnt to be guarded around the people you associate with.

 

Also, more advice: Change the people you associate with, those twisted assholes full of lies and hate will drag you down with them. They don't love the Jaguar, the games or the 'scene' - all they care about is causing drama, spreading lies and boosting their own egos. Like all the developers they've 'helped' in the past, you will be burnt up in their tales and then ejected to make room for the next one. I would not be surprised if they were all blowing smoke up your ass telling you there's nothing wrong with the games, it's all just the haters. You don't need that shit, nobody does. Without the truth it's all pointless.

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A few pennies from me too :)

When I am working on stuff I use a trello board to keep track of all the various bits and ideas. I have a list dedicated to bugs, one for things I need to do, one for stuff that needs a bit more thinking on, and one for stuff that is complete and working. This helps me keep tabs on all the various moving parts easily and visibly (it's free too), and you can move these elements around simply. This is my way of doing things, so may not work. But having a list of bugs each only containing it's own particular bits and pieces, makes it easy to decide to start working on it and know all the relevant info for just that one thing. Then I work on just that one thing until it's done, when I am happy with it, it gets moved to the done pile and the next thing picked up.

 

If you try to attack a project with many moving parts as a single entity, it can get quickly overwhelming and you can get bogged down very quickly, going in for individual parts really helps me, and limits the amount of stuff you need to think about.

RE your mention of skinwalker and people not knowing.. One idea could be a between scene monologue where the main character tells the story of their adventure, just some scrolling text etc, you could then drop hints for the upcoming level.. "I have headed out into the plain, I heard rumours of an old ranch house out here, maybe I can get some shelter. I'm going to ignore the crazy old mans story of the giant unkillable wolf! although with all these zombies.. who can say what is crazy these days,,," *press fire to start level* kind of thing..

 

As has been said by others, there is a variety of experience on here, and generally people want to help, this is all our hobby, we all want to take part in it where we can, helping others do good things and improve our hobby is something we're all here for. Ask those questions, how to change fonts, how to use cart memory etc. You'll learn, and others will learn, everyone will get better!

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Well I suppose I should look at things differently. I get your version of the bats and I also get why you were asking why only 1 shot blew up the car. The thing was I was trying to make the player see a trashed car (because its all banged up) and then blow it up easily because of the fact that it has been beaten down so badly. But now that I think about it most players WOULD asume the car would take more shots to blow up because it is a CAR. regarding the wolf I can see how players who are unfamiliar with the skinwalker ranch stories could be confused as to why he takes so many shots and never actually dies.

 

The skinwalker ranch was a nice touch. I remember years ago listening to a Coast to Coast AM episode dedicated to it and it was some fascinating stuff. I havent heard about it again till this game.

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This game still looks pretty fun, I'll be interested in it too when I see a review or so online. I know you mentioned in a post that Second Opinion Games should get his copy soon and he is likely to be one of the first video reviewers I imagine of the game.

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If it helps at all, I don't mind how long things take as long as they are good at the end... That makes the wait worthwhile!

Laughs like Beavis and says "typical female" :) We're all trying to prevent the premature release (of bad games) so no disrespect meant.

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Looks like the auctions have stopped, is there trouble in paradise?

Maybe they are still making more and out of stock with the ebay orders and presales in the meantime.

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I've stayed out of commenting on anything in here but feel the auction cancellations need addressing. If it is important enough to warrant a pm then shouldn't the rest of the world be aware?

 

 

Looking at the videos again I am wondering if the position of the zombie sprites etc. Actually have any randomness attached, or are they all preprogrammed. In some instances the sight gets moved to the area the next zombie appears in. If so, like a rail shooter, the game would have been coded like a script for one of the game engines (at time xxxx do [email protected]).

 

Doing so would mean the game would be beaten after learning the sequence and, as it is only a short game, that would give it no real replay value.

 

Is it rail shooter style?

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I've stayed out of commenting on anything in here but feel the auction cancellations need addressing. If it is important enough to warrant a pm then shouldn't the rest of the world be aware?

Looking at the videos again I am wondering if the position of the zombie sprites etc. Actually have any randomness attached, or are they all preprogrammed. In some instances the sight gets moved to the area the next zombie appears in. If so, like a rail shooter, the game would have been coded like a script for one of the game engines (at time xxxx do [email protected]).

Doing so would mean the game would be beaten after learning the sequence and, as it is only a short game, that would give it no real replay value.

Is it rail shooter style?

 

It is not a rail shooter. The x position of the zombies are always random. It is however timer based like you said.

 

eBay sales have stopped because the game is undergoing a ROM revision.

Things that were pointed out here such as graphics tearing, game speed and crosshair collision are the things I would like to improve with this revision.

 

Somebody posted my picture of Ants being temporarily discontinued. That game has been temporarily discontinued because additional content is being added.

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I don't get it. A few days ago you were saying everything was perfect. Now you're making a new revision.

 

I mean it's good you're fixing those bugs, but why did you wait so much? They had been pointed out to you a long time ago.

Fixing things post-release makes it much less convenient for your buyers and yourself.

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If it helps at all, I don't mind how long things take as long as they are good at the end... That makes the wait worthwhile!

I seem to remember Sega only give Tantalus between 5 and 6 months to convert HOTD to the Saturn.

 

That could of been so much better if it'd had a longer development period.

 

Think the same developers handled the home versions of Area 51..

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Everyone needs a game tester who won't hold back, and tell them "this is crap, it's wrong, and I don't like it" to make their games better.

 

Thanks, Remo ;)

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