Why did opinions on these 2 Zelda games completely change after 10+ years?

[Zap!]

The reviews did great but in the six month~ run time before it was out was a wall of entitled whining and bitching because it didn't look like Ocarina of Time and therefore sucked and was heresy.

 

As much as I like you and have defended you on DP, this is not a cool post. People who have different opinions than you do are not whining nor do WE (I say we because I am one of them) feel entitled to anything. We just think the look was crap, and not Zelda. It's just about having a different opinion. I'm 99% positive that I've been gaming longer than you. Does that make my opinion that TP blows away WW any better than yours? Of course not. I value your input as much as anyone else, there is no place here for name-calling.

[+wongojack]

GTA4 had this happen and it went fairly lower as have other games.

 

Man I tried really hard, but I could not understand what people liked about GTA 4. One more round of darts with my cousin or some stupid date, and I was gonna look for an alien conspiracy as an explanation for brainwashing reviewers into liking sh!+ that sucked. I had to quit before I crashed my car again with the horrible driving controls.

 

I mean, the game is called Grand Theft Auto, why can't they figure out how to make driving a car actually fun?!

[Zap!]

Twilight Princess is a bit more difficult to pin down. I don't remember anyone being in love with it at the time.

 

The reviews were off the charts in terms of positive praise.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess#Reviews

[glazball]

Not surprising that Twilight Princess got great reviews. (wow, it's been over 10 years now since I played it!) We all remember of course that the Wiimote was originally going to be a Gamecube peripheral, and along the way the idea turned into a whole console based around that controller. I didn't realize it then, but in retrospect, the Gamecube version is the "true" version of the game (at least at that time, the HD remaster is probably the best version now). Having to waggle the Wiimote for every swing of Link's sword got old really quick, and I remember talking to my cousin at the time about the best way to rest your arm while playing for extended periods.

 

Gameplay wise, it was fun and deserved (and still deserves) love. But when I'm ready to revisit Twilight Princess, it will be the Gamecube version. I made sure not to make the same mistake this year, which is why I played Breath of the Wild on Wii U - the system it was designed for

 

I think all of the 10/10 reviews for BotW were mainly due to New Nintendo System Euphoria, since most people played it on their new Switch. The game is great, but simply not a 10/10. 9.75 maybe, but not a perfect 10. Nintendo was smart to release the Switch early (instead of the usual holiday-time), since the new Zelda was ready and people were (rightly so) going to praise the game.

[Silverfleet]

I remember when that Zelda tech demo debuted, and how excited I was for a then-next gen Zelda game. When the Wind Waker was announced, I was in the minority that appreciated the art style. Cel-shaded graphics were HUGE back then, and made games look like playable cartoons, and I liked that. While I was a tiny bit disappointed that they didn't carry on the style of the N64 titles, I didn't care enough not to buy the game. I actually pre-ordered it BEFORE I even owned a GameCube! And to this day, it's one of my favorites in the series.

 

After I picked up a Wii, one of my first purchases was Twilight Princess. I really wished I bought the GameCube version. The motion controls were annoying, and as much as I tried to tough it out, I never made it past the opening couple hours of the game. Same thing happened with Skyward Sword. I got to the first dungeon and got annoyed with the motion controls.

 

So, in my book, Wind Waker beats both of the Wii titles on control scheme alone. I do want to revisit Twilight Princess at some point in the future, though. I tried revisiting Skyward Sword recently and just got annoyed again.

[Tanooki]

Zap you may be personally offended but that wasn't my intent really. But objectively staying to the side of it, you have this demo people jinned up in their mind as what Zelda WILL be, not could be. Once 'celda' showed up you saw the same general people bitching and whining that it looked like crap and that they'd not buy the game because it was ugly, not because of the game itself (which they had no idea anyway at the time as it wasn't out.) That comes off as entitled and whining because that's what it was. They felt entitled to a non-game they made themselves believe would be how the game was, and when it was denied to them with 'celda' the whining and bitching went on relentlessly for months, years in some cases for some who would never let it go like they were personally victimized by a video game.

 

I don't think it much has anything to do with how long someone has been gaming, and sure it is opinion to a point what I'm saying, but it's not hard to find old posts and threads online in all sorts of media and forums back when the game was introduced that shows the nerd rage over it and spiteful commentary. That's what I'm basing it on. But if it were relevant I've been gaming since the very early 80s, so if you're older than I and got started in the 70s you got me.

[TPA5]

I've never been one to keep my finger on the pulse of society, so it was only recently I learned of the push-back against Wind Waker when it was released.

 

To me, Wind Waker is the best 3D Zelda game ever made. Sure, the sailing sucks. But there's aspects of every Zelda game that kinda blow. Rarely do they cripple the over-all experience. I never finished Twilight Princess, mostly because I just found it to be a bore.

 

But for my all-time favourite Zelda game, Oracle Of Seasons wins that hands-down.

[Zap!]

Zap you may be personally offended but that wasn't my intent really. But objectively staying to the side of it, you have this demo people jinned up in their mind as what Zelda WILL be, not could be. Once 'celda' showed up you saw the same general people bitching and whining that it looked like crap and that they'd not buy the game because it was ugly, not because of the game itself (which they had no idea anyway at the time as it wasn't out.) That comes off as entitled and whining because that's what it was. They felt entitled to a non-game they made themselves believe would be how the game was, and when it was denied to them with 'celda' the whining and bitching went on relentlessly for months, years in some cases for some who would never let it go like they were personally victimized by a video game.

 

I don't think it much has anything to do with how long someone has been gaming, and sure it is opinion to a point what I'm saying, but it's not hard to find old posts and threads online in all sorts of media and forums back when the game was introduced that shows the nerd rage over it and spiteful commentary. That's what I'm basing it on. But if it were relevant I've been gaming since the very early 80s, so if you're older than I and got started in the 70s you got me.

 

Point taken. And late 70's for me, starting with electro-mechanical handhelds.

[Silverfleet]

Call me crazy, but I actually LIKED the sailing parts of Wind Waker. Treasure hunting was fun, and I spent hours doing it. It was relaxing, actually.

[Flojomojo]

Call me crazy, but I actually LIKED the sailing parts of Wind Waker. Treasure hunting was fun, and I spent hours doing it. It was relaxing, actually.

 

Also try: Oceanhorn: Monster of Uncharted Seas

[Tanooki]

Call me crazy, but I actually LIKED the sailing parts of Wind Waker. Treasure hunting was fun, and I spent hours doing it. It was relaxing, actually.

I felt the exact same way. The only time it got a slight be annoying was the triforce run towards the very end as it was all at once instead of spread out a little. In the end the only part I found annoying or nauseating with the game was Tingle which I would love to see killed off.

[Tempest]

Twilight Princess was the last Zelda game I really enjoyed. I liked it when it came out (got it for the GC) and I still like it. Although I hear good things about BotW which is next on my play list.

 

While I didn't hate Wind Waker when it came out, the cartoony style really put me off (especially the weird eyes that Link has). It was a good game and I enjoyed it well enough, but it's not one I'm eager to revisit. I also didn't care for the whole boat/sailing mechanic. It seemed to make the game much longer than it should be.

 

They really need to make a modern Zelda game that plays like Link to the Past that's NOT on a portable system (I don't do those). I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

[omegadot]

I bought Wind Waker at launch and loved it immediately. I really liked the cel-shaded style. It reminded me most of my favorite entries. I recall a lot of people commenting about it being kiddie and I guess bad because of that but I didn't place much value in that opinion. The sounds could be annoying, I agree with that, but I thought the style was something that looked good then and looks good now. And regardless of preference, it was well executed.

 

I hadn't really been that drawn in by OoT, which means I'm probably dead to most Zelda fans. On the return to the sorta realistic for the generation style with a wii mote in my hand it was a lost cause. If I had gotten TP for the GCN I might have held on better but it never held my attention. It still sits on my shelf to this day.

 

Maybe the opinions flipped because a large body of the hate train was driven by kids that found bright cartoons offensive to their maturity and have since grown up. There are legitimate reasons to like or dislike any of them, but I seem to recall a lot of it tied to the kiddie V mature argument.

Edited November 16, 2017 by omegadot

[Eltigro]

When I got my GameCube, it was with Wind Waker (and the bonus disc) and I loved it.

 

When I got my Wii, one of the first games I got was Twilight Princess and I loved it.

 

I still like both of them alright, I guess. Wind Waker is the only one I've gone back and played some, but then Twilight Princess it the only game of the entire franchise that I've ever played through until the end. (That honor probably would have gone to Link's Awakening, but there was some kind of bug on one of the dungeons and I couldn't get past it. Quit and never went back to it, then lost the cartridge.)

[Tanooki]

(That honor probably would have gone to Link's Awakening, but there was some kind of bug on one of the dungeons and I couldn't get past it. Quit and never went back to it, then lost the cartridge.)

Head dungeon key dungeon something I think is the name. The original run of the game had a fatal bug in like 1 of 24 or 32 copies of the game. You'd enter a room and it would jingle about a key if you cleared it, but when you did, it would never drop on the square tile dooming you to never be able to complete the dungeon and in turn the game. I had the same garbage copy of the game and it turned me off the game entirely for years. I ended up ditching it and later getting the DX release but while I was determined to finish what I couldn't (that dungeon) I don't recall ever finishing it as it was such a crushing stupid issue.

[Koopa64]

 

Yeah I agree, they definitely fan the flames. I do remember some of the big gaming sites posted comparisons themselves to the original tech demos.

 

Funnily enough I was covering SpaceWorld 2000 for a web site at the time and I just realized I actually have the original tech demo screenshots that people lost their minds over later. These were released along with the announcement of the system. Nintendo said at the time that this was not a game; it was just a tech demo. But some people assumed that the game would look like this, and instead Wind Waker is what we got.

 

Honestly, that SpaceWorld 2000 tech demo looks more like a promotion for Super Smash Bros. Melee. The models for Link and Ganondorf look practically identical.

 

 

[BydoEmpire]

I liked Wind Waker okay, although the sailing around at the end was pretty tedious and I remember not really digging the early sneaking around bits. I also didn't love the art style, but that didn't stop me from playing and enjoying the game. The "frozen in time" castle segment was pretty awesome.

 

I loved Twilight Princess, though. It's right up there in the running as my favorite Zelda game. The dungeons were amazing, the art style was amazing, the game was really well balanced. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

Haven't played either since they were new, but my opinion hasn't changed. I can't speak for "popular opinion" changing over the years.

[Zap!]

I loved Twilight Princess, though. It's right up there in the running as my favorite Zelda game. The dungeons were amazing, the art style was amazing, the game was really well balanced. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

Haven't played either since they were new, but my opinion hasn't changed. I can't speak for "popular opinion" changing over the years.

 

I totally agree. Changing opinions on TP still shock and sadden me.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

I bought both of these games on launch day, played through them both beginning to end several times over the years, and I remember the critic and fan responses to both at the time of their release pretty well. Starting off with The Wind Waker, it was pretty simple why that one got different reactions from critics than fans. The critics played the game through and found it to be a charming (albeit rather easy) adventure with a new and different graphical style so they reviewed it quite well, whereas a lot of the fans got hung up on the graphics and never wanted to spend the money to play it based on the visual stylings alone. Personally I've always thought the cel shaded graphics were beautiful, but I am one of those people who loves the results almost every time Nintendo tries something new and different. In short: Those who played it generally liked The Wind Waker, and majority of those who didn't care for it never actually played it due to hangups over the cel shaded graphics.

Moving on to Twilight Princess, this one is really tied with Link's Awakening DX for my all time favorite Legend of Zelda game. At the time of it's release it was highly praised by critics and fans alike for exploring a much darker and more mature narrative than Nintendo had ever touched on before, as well as it's beautiful graphics, the largest world we had ever been given to explore in a Zelda game, and the addition of the (at the time) brand new motion controls. Since Twilight Princess was a Wii launch game, for many gamers—myself included—it was their very first experience with motion controls; and they were implemented quite well to create a new and engaging gaming experience the likes of which the world had never before known.

What really stood out to me about Twilight Princess though were the characters and storyline. Never before had a game managed to make me genuinely care about the fates of the characters involved quite like Twilight Princess did, and I think that largely comes down to all the vibrant and varied personalities that Nintendo injected into the characters for this go around. Midna in particular was a real change of pace for anyone who had played any of the previous three dimensional Zelda games. To put it bluntly: She was one sexy b****. In spite of her bizarre midget imp-like-thing appearance she had this commanding presence that no secondary Zelda character had ever managed to pull off, spending more time teasing and mocking you than providing actual guidance (Navi she was not) but in this weirdly flirtatious way that made her strangely likable. Add in the fact that she only seemed to make passes at Link while he was in his wolf form and didn't have much interest in the human version of him and things only got stranger.

But I think "strange" was the name of the game for Twilight Princess. From the way it controlled to the content of it's narrative there was little about Twilight Princess that held to the status quo for a Zelda game, and that was really it's strongest selling point. Well, that and the fact that you'd likely get a good 50 or 60 hours of enjoyment for your $60; which was quite a lot of gameplay for the money 11 years ago. These days it's the norm for an action/adventure game to eat up months of your life, but back then few games outside of JRPGs ever gave you stories that long or worlds that large to explore. As far as why Twilight Princess isn't regarded as highly today as it was at the time of it's release, I think it's probably a combination of the game's motion controls, it's length, and the darker narrative. The motion controls that were once revolutionary are now viewed by many to be a gimmick, most high production value games seem to take 60+ hours to complete nowadays, and the current generation of younger gamers has a habit of panning any game that works to tell a dark and emotionally engaging story as trying too hard to be "edgy".

Edgy, sloggy, and waggly or not though I still love Twilight Princess, and I actually just finished a complete play through of it this past week. After 46 hours or so beginning to end it was still just as enjoyable to me today as it was at launch.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Jin

[Flojomojo]

Yikes...46 hours. No wonder I never finish anything.

 

I haven't finished a Zelda game since Adventure of Link, which was 30 years ago.

 

Sad!

[JamesD]

I'm pretty sure I saw positive and negative reviews of these games when they were released and people that loved them still do and people that hate them still do.
Not sure anything really changed other than people wrote a new article on them.

[Gamemoose]

60 hours to complete Twilight Princess? That must be gping for 100% completion.

 

By the 20-25 hour mark, with me nearing the end and running into that "fetch quests", I couldn't wait for it to end. I go more for the "narrative" finish than total completion and there was stuff that was totally put in to inflate the play time.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

60 hours to complete Twilight Princess? That must be gping for 100% completion.

By the 20-25 hour mark, with me nearing the end and running into that "fetch quests", I couldn't wait for it to end. I go more for the "narrative" finish than total completion and there was stuff that was totally put in to inflate the play time.

Nope, I wasn't going for 100% completion, just playing through the main story and doing a few side quests here and there as I stumbled on them. It had been a long time since I played Twilight Princess though so I didn't remember where most things were and ended up exploring a lot of the game as if I had just discovered it for the first time. It took me 46 hours to play through it beginning to end but I'm sure it would take much less time if you knew what you were doing and where everything was.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Jin

[Zap!]

Now two years later, I've noticed that Twilight Princess is slowly getting the appreciation that it deserves once again. It's starting to rank higher in top 10 Zelda games lists, and I even saw this video about it:

 

 

[+wongojack]

On 11/13/2017 at 9:02 PM, Flojomojo said:

That's interesting. What you say certainly rings true in retrospect, but I seem to recall people being in love with ZELDA AT LAUNCH!! but you're probably right, it was new system infatuation.

 

The only negative review that I remember was from a crazy site called Actionbutton.net, and it was VERY negative, hilariously so in my opinion. One star out of four. The site's graphics are deliberately monochrome and grainy, just as pasted here. The site's archive is down but I found a copy of the review on wayback. https://web.archive.org/web/20070716173345/http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=70

 

 

Maybe that last line is the inspiration behind Breath of the Wild?

 

Thanks for bumping this thread so I could read this review again.  I thought TP was shockingly bland when it came out when compared to the AAA games on other systems.  As the years go by, I agree more and more with this hilarious review: https://web.archive.org/web/20070716173345/http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=70