MaG2k Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Hi Folks, as my start into that forum i cam directly with the problem and questions on a defect of an 130XE that i never saw befor. I hope somebody can halp me or give me a little hint were i can search to solve this kind of problem. okay whats the problem on that special machine. It seams to work fine. it starts, it runs basic, but....the memorytest shows some strange blocks i never seen before on those machines. The short (with Basic loaded) and the long (without Basic loaded) Memorytest show 40/48 blocks of RAM in the first run they all ar white...no red/brown defectiv memoryblocks...but at the and of the first run happens that what i never seen befor in the internal memory test. under the 40/48 RAM blocks were shown 4 bigger brown blocks...see pictures short memorytest (with Basic loaded): long memorytest (Basic not loaded): becaus this problem is special and because some more 130xe mainboards are sleeping in my cellar waiting to be tested i bought the SysCheck Module from tf_hh i started the machine...the MEM Test runs...tells me everything is fine. ROM Checksumm also is fine. in a conversation with tf_hh he told me to boot the machine and try POKE 54017,252. He told me if the machine get stuck it can't be the MMU or the PIA that causes the problem. this happens after typing POKE 54017,252 and hit return. this is the Mainboard of the 130XE with that special problem. does anyone have an idea what the problem can be? can anyone tell me what program i need to test the upper 64KB of RAM of an 130XE? i have two other 130XE that run normal (on both i had to exchange some of the RAM-ICs. but they have an other problem to. at first bootup he boots into Basci normaly but the screen is only black and white and the charakters look a little like a checkerboard. After turning of and on again it mostliy boots up normaly with color screen! Does anyone know what the reason for that problem can be? Thanx a lot!!! MaG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Try crossing R110 y R111 to switch the extended banks into the main bank. I think that could help. Attached is some info regarding this. Atari-130XE-EMMU-RAMS.pdf Edited November 15, 2017 by Wilheim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 The medium sized blocks represent extended Ram above the normal 64K. POKE 54017,252 will crash the machine, that is switching the OS Rom out. There's loadable memory tests that give more info than the built in one, in fact a full ATR of them. I don't have it but it's been posted up here multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/189604-small-thing-memtest-10-1996-jaku-b/?do=findComment&comment=2400069 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaG2k Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 thanx for your help... do i understand right? the 4 bigger blocks showing the extended memory? i never saw that on other 130XE machines before! Regards MaG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Yes, the four larger blocks at the bottom only show up when they exist and only on the last ROM OS that Atari produced which is on all the 64x4 130XE. It also is included in the XEGS OS but there, one does not have extended memory and test then defaults to start over leaving one with the impression that extended memory was not tested for - it was and it was not found so the test just repeats at that point. And that looks just like the old test we all know. I doubt the extended memory is actually bad. Since it's so easy to do, what I would do is test for a weak system clock signal by piggybacking a 74HCT08 on top of the current 74LS08 at U18 and if you have immediate relief then replace the LS for the HCT flavor of AND chip at U18. Slightest change in timing from a weak clock might be making the extended memory appear to be bad when it's really not bad at all. I change these chips every chance I get and never have a problem while often fixing any number of quirky issues. Edited November 15, 2017 by 1050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 always had success using 74F's myself don't overlook caps and power supply issues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaG2k Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 thanx a lot...i will try that in the comming days....thanx for your help....but RAMs arn't the problem...for a dead XEGS i have some new NEC 41464 RAMs left that work well in the XEGS. Regards MaG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 That this is a very late 130XE version can also be concluded by the fact that it uses only 4 RAM chips AND the type of SALLY which is unbranded. One of the Dutch guys here bought a SALLY like that from eBay seller in the U.K. and experienced problems with it.....but since he only bought one he didn't know if it was just the single chip or it might be an issue of all SALLYs of this type (no brand, very large letters and 1980 Atari copyright on it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Ah, found my thread about the © 1980 SALLY: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/270414-1980-sally/?p=3856655 It was Jurgen from Germany who bought one of those and had problems with it in XL machines....an der it looks like 1050 is on the right track. Since it's a very late 130XE chances of a bad GTIA are also very high but that shouldn't produce those red extended memory test blocks. Running Ballblazer will show bad/good GTIA right at the intro screen.... Isn't the Syscheck all about testing RAMs on XL and XE machines ?? I would find it very weird if it wouldn't check the extended memory.... Edited November 16, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Isn't the Syscheck all about testing RAMs on XL and XE machines ?? I would find it very weird if it wouldn't check the extended memory.... It's the base 64K which stops the machine from booting. Once you get that fixed, you can use XRAM or similar to test the extended RAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaG2k Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 Hi Folks, long story but short answer. Its the upper memory that is defectiv on my machine. But here the story why i am so shure about it. I red all the comments you all gave me to that particular problem and tried to test everything you told me...the easiest was the test about the bad GTIA...i started Ballblazer from my UltimateCartridge. Because it seams to work without any graficerrors - conclusion is "GTIA Okay"!!! Then i started a lot of different memory testingtools with a lot of different results. Some tell me that memory is defectiv some don't. A lot of memory testing!!! But at the and i decided...to solder the DRAMs out and put them into sockets (fu.... i have a lot of sockets but aspecially not the 18 pin ones)...so i did something that i real DON'T like...i REALY REALY DON't like...something i hate. I "piggybacked" all memory chips with new one... guess what happend....??? Internal memorytest finished without erros! now its time for me to get sockets and than the machine gets new socketed DRAMs tomorrow Thanx a lot for your help!!! Best regards MaG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) You're very lucky on the GTIA ! What memory (brand) are they ? I always have these on stock.....so no matter how many pins the chips are, I can socket them :) http://s.aliexpress.com/miuAfYBv Edited November 16, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 It's the base 64K which stops the machine from booting. Once you get that fixed, you can use XRAM or similar to test the extended RAM. But doesn't the Syscheck hardware pass the regular hardware to test the RAM? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Did he say he had the syscheck hardware? I must be getting old I missed it if he did.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Either you are getting old, or I am getting crazy (both are quite possible I guess.....): Hi Folks, ....... becaus this problem is special and because some more 130xe mainboards are sleeping in my cellar waiting to be tested i bought the SysCheck Module from tf_hh i started the machine...the MEM Test runs...tells me everything is fine. ROM Checksumm also is fine. ....... MaG There also was a pic showing the Syscheck 2.To be honest I am very surprised that it misses bad upper RAM bank on a 130XE....what good is Sys check if it only tests the first bank of XE memory ? Edited November 16, 2017 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 The V1.4 firmware version of Sys-Check only test the main memory (64 KByte). The next major update will test all PORT-B designed memory expansions... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 okay it never started from the top of the thread I must remember to scroll up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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