+mytek Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Whew!l Last 30 ceramic caps on the board. These last, as provided in my kit, were 0.1 uF disc caps, in the same style as the others supplied, rather than the axial style most of the beta testers used, I guess. The only thing is, these caps were not made with the little "dog leg" double 90 degree bend to fit the hole spacing. As a result, I had to try to carefully center each one as low as I could make it on the board before soldering in place. Unfortunately, a couple of them ended a bit lopsided from what I intended. Won't affect functionality of course but it does annoy me a bit. Ah, well. I understand many artists work an intentional flaw into their artwork as a "calling card" of sorts - I'm gonna go with that explanation if someone ever mentions it in years to come. IMG_454.JPG Hmm.. that's odd I was pretty sure the ones in the BOM (399-9870-1-ND) had the correct lead spacing of 0.2" (5.08mm), and ideally there should have been 6 axial ones (1109PHCT-ND) for under the Pokey's where a low profile is needed. So you might need to bend those over if there is a clearance problem. But hey that's what this builder's thread is all about... solving any issues that come up. EDIT: Opps the lead spacing is actually 0.1" on those, it's the package size that's 0.2" (I'll have to go find the correct part and update the BOM -- Arggg ) Here is the correct part: 399-4329-ND and I just updated the BOM on my website (sorry about that ). Nice to see more stuff getting soldered on your board . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 it's an easy fix... just use jeweler/electronics needle nose pliers (two) and put the bends in yourself... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LarryL Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Whew!l Last 30 ceramic caps on the board. These last, as provided in my kit, were 0.1 uF disc caps, in the same style as the others supplied, rather than the axial style most of the beta testers used, I guess. The only thing is, these caps were not made with the little "dog leg" double 90 degree bend to fit the hole spacing. As a result, I had to try to carefully center each one as low as I could make it on the board before soldering in place. Unfortunately, a couple of them ended a bit lopsided from what I intended. Won't affect functionality of course but it does annoy me a bit. Ah, well. I understand many artists work an intentional flaw into their artwork as a "calling card" of sorts - I'm gonna go with that explanation if someone ever mentions it in years to come. IMG_454.JPG Had the same problem. Also got a little tight under the upper POKEY, but worked. Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Well, I managed to finagle them down inside the POKEY socket to no taller than the resistor networks, even standing up straight. I’m sure it’ll be fine. All of the other ceramics have the correct lead spacing and dropped right in with no issue at all. So while wiggling all of these down into place was kind of a PITA, it was still a good way to spend some time in a weekday evening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 So the incorrectly specified 0.1uf capacitor has had far reaching consequences. And as I discovered today it's infected two other projects, the XEL-CF-][ and the JOY2PIC-STIK. So let me tell you the story on how all of this came to be... Someone who will remain nameless, suggested that it would be far easier to assemble a board if instead of using an axial leaded part for 0.1uf as I had originally specified in the 1088XEL BOM, to instead go with a radial leaded part so that the leads would already be pre-formed (no bending required). Not a bad idea I thought at the time. Trying to be helpful they also gave me this Digi-Key part number: 399-9870-1-ND to use for the new version. Well as I first found out yesterday, that part number will indeed get you a 0.1uf radial lead capacitor, but unfortunately one with the incorrect lead spacing, as in too narrow. The correct part number would be: 399-4329-ND which has the correct lead spacing of 0.2" (5.08mm). Anyway to make a long story short, I should have done a better job at verifying that part for proper fit. But in my defense, I had previously purchased a bunch of axial leaded parts and was still working my way through those. So as of this morning I corrected all of the files that were affected and re-uploaded those to my website. For your convenience I have also uploaded those same files here. 1088XEL_BOM_V1_1_01-02-2018.pdf XEL-CF-II_BOM_V1_0_01-03-2018.pdf JOY2PIC-STIK_schema_V1_2_01-03-2018.pdf For those people that now have the incorrect part, all is not lost and with the use of some needle-nose pliers, 'dog leg' bends as shown in the photo can be formed in the leads to make them fit. Or if it were me, I think I would just cut my losses and place an order for the correct parts, since there are a considerable number of those capacitors being used. Once again let me say that I am truly sorry for this mix up . - Michael 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Once again let me say that I am truly sorry for this mix up . - Michael No big deal, really. I did not even consider it was a wrong part. Just pushed them in and soldered away. I have 2500 of them, so just going to keep plugging along. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 For those people that now have the incorrect part, all is not lost and with the use of some needle-nose pliers, 'dog leg' bends as shown in the photo can be formed in the leads to make them fit. Or if it were me, I think I would just cut my losses and place an order for the correct parts, since there are a considerable number of those capacitors being used. Once again let me say that I am truly sorry for this mix up . - Michael I wish I could use this cap as the cause of my butt hurt, but think not. Today I'm going over every (I mean every) solder joint looking for cold, insufficient soldering. My board is on point on voltage. I shall find the cause!!! Mike 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I wish I could use this cap as the cause of my butt hurt, but think not. Today I'm going over every (I mean every) solder joint looking for cold, insufficient soldering. My board is on point on voltage. I shall find the cause!!! Mike Use a magnifying glass under good white light. When I built my 1450 board, I had a micro thread of solder laying between 2 vias which wasn't found until the 4th to 5th time looking at it... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 again, it is cake to shape the leads... what more to say? if the cap value is correct no problem easy peasy to make the bend yourself.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I wish I could use this cap as the cause of my butt hurt, but think not. Today I'm going over every (I mean every) solder joint looking for cold, insufficient soldering. My board is on point on voltage. I shall find the cause!!! Mike Mike, If you can, take a few hi-res pics of the top and bottom and post them here. A few more eyeballs can really help. We did that often in the test group thread and it was a big help. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Mike, If you can, take a few hi-res pics of the top and bottom and post them here. A few more eyeballs can really help. We did that often in the test group thread and it was a big help. Will do. I'm soldering in a new video/s-video connector and reversing that RN. Once done I'll take some pretty pictures and post them. Thanks Brent! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I wish I could use this cap as the cause of my butt hurt, but think not. Today I'm going over every (I mean every) solder joint looking for cold, insufficient soldering. My board is on point on voltage. I shall find the cause!!! Mike Good luck! I noticed the other night that working from the bottom of the board, several of my solder joints didn’t seem to have flown deeply enough into the through-holes to ensure they’d make good connections. I spend some time last night re-flowing and/or adding a bit of solder to let it better fill the holes of a number of them. I’ll be spending some time doing that again towards the end of the build, putting fresh eyes on parts I’d installed some time prior. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 little hint from when I was borrowed to stuff boards at one point in time.... flux on both sides of a board can be helpful... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Ok, a little progress today with some serious solder joint inspection, correcting RN3 which was reversed, I replaced the video/s-video connect for kicks, and for all that was able to see some activity on the screen. Not having all the keyboard commands the PS/2 down I was not able to get to the U1MB menu. I think I need to flash these U1MB again as I do not think they are correct. My eyeballs hurt right now. Just glad I'm seeing some positive progress. Thanks to Michael for helping me validate the GTIA chip, oscillator, and the other points to very the proper voltage. With that verification It allowed me to focus back on my work as the culprit and not focusing on faulty components. progress1088XEL.mp4 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Ok, a little progress today with some serious solder joint inspection, correcting RN3 which was reversed, I replaced the video/s-video connect for kicks, and for all that was able to see some activity on the screen. Not having all the keyboard commands the PS/2 down I was not able to get to the U1MB menu. I think I need to flash these U1MB again as I do not think they are correct. My eyeballs hurt right now. Just glad I'm seeing some positive progress. Thanks to Michael for helping me validate the GTIA chip, oscillator, and the other points to very the proper voltage. With that verification It allowed me to focus back on my work as the culprit and not focusing on faulty components. progress1088XEL.mp4 Wow congratulations . Always nice to see the boot screen. F12 will take you to Setup. So if you haven't done so already, update to the latest U1MB BIOS that Jon posted so that you have consistent boot-ups. I know you are tired, but it must feel good to get to this point and see something on screen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Wow congratulations . Always nice to see the boot screen. F12 will take you to Setup. So if you haven't done so already, update to the latest U1MB BIOS that Jon posted so that you have consistent boot-ups. I know you are tired, but it must feel good to get to this point and see something on screen. Thanks Michael, and yes I feel good about working through the process. I'll start tomorrow with flashing the U1MB to the latest BIOS. I think the board got worried with Brentarian offered to give it a scan for solder issues! I do appreciate him offering as I was about to take the pictures to send up, but gave the board a boot. Any how I'm calling it an evening. Mike 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Man, once you get those ceramic caps on the board, things really start moving along. I got all the transistors on the board tonight except that monster (voltage regulator?) Q1, and the two LEDS, and got started on the sockets. I managed to modify the three 40-pin machine sockets without too much trouble - a sharp razor blade box cutter works great for any future DIY'ers. I scored each cross-member front and back several times, set the socket pins-up and then cut right through at the score marks with sharp pressure. Just had to ensure that when the blade pushed through I didn't bend any of the pins. So I installed U7, then then U6 and U5 before calling it a night. I actually really enjoy soldering in sockets so I'm saving that for tomorrow or the weekend. I still need to modify my U1MB anyway, and I'm also waiting for a UAV from Mac. Anyway, as you can see, the "incorrect spacing" 0.1 uF caps work just fine inside U5 with a tiny bit of bending just in case. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thanks Michael, and yes I feel good about working through the process. I'll start tomorrow with flashing the U1MB to the latest BIOS. I think the board got worried with Brentarian offered to give it a scan for solder issues! I do appreciate him offering as I was about to take the pictures to send up, but gave the board a boot. Any how I'm calling it an evening. Mike Now that your board is coming online, I think you'll really start enjoying the use of it. But at least now you can go to sleep in peace. BTW, here's a pic showing the keys associated with the new BIOS. F9 is specific to the XEL-CF board, and is used to refresh the CF card if hot plugged. Works as a single key press in the Loader screen, and outside of the Loader requires F8 (RESET) to be held in combination with it. BTW, don't do what I did, and release F9 before the prompt comes back on screen after releasing F8 first. The proper way to do it outside of the Loader is to first press F9, and then press F8 while still holding F9, then release F8 while still pressing F9, and finally when the prompt appears back on screen release F9. In the Loader, simply press and release F9 if you've hot plugged a CF card to refresh it. F11 or F12 can be pressed anytime you desire to launch into either the Loader or Setup, but keep in mind that F11 will wipe out any program you currently have in memory. Another feature. If you press F12 and then momentarily press a console key when in the Setup screen, you'll exit with a cold-boot and that key automatically held. So for instance, if I momentarily press F12, and then momentarily press F7 (OPTION) I'll boot back up with Basic disabled. Same action applies to F5 (START) which will boot-up with the cassette load prompt, and F6 (SELECT) will boot-up with the built-in game slot active assuming you have an XEGS OS enabled and the jumper on the U1MB board in place. Have fun 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Man, once you get those ceramic caps on the board, things really start moving along. I got all the transistors on the board tonight except that monster (voltage regulator?) Q1, Q1 is a MOSFET low resistance switch that controls the +5V power going to the board. It's directly tied into the 555 next to it which is responsible for translating the momentary push button action into a latched ON/OFF toggled function. If for some reason you wish to have the 1088XEL turn ON automatically when power is applied, place a shorting jumper block across the push button switch connection on J3 (pins 1-2). This would be good if you wish to have it work more like a stock A8, and resume operation after a power failure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Q1 is a MOSFET low resistance switch that controls the +5V power going to the board. It's directly tied into the 555 next to it which is responsible for translating the momentary push button action into a latched ON/OFF toggled function. Ah, thanks! I confess to not having studied the schematics terribly closely at this point. I skipped it for now because it's so tall, I figure it will make it a bit awkward to flip the board over and work on the remaining sockets and such. I'll likely do it after I finish the sockets but before I go to the headers and connectors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 If and when you guys decide to use a mouse with your 1088XEL, I've found the Logitech M-SBF96 is a good quality 400 dpi optical PS/2 mouse that matches very well with the current Mousetari chip firmware. These are readily available as NOS on eBay. M-SBF96 (black) M-SBF96 (beige) And here's a nice mouse compatible game to get you started. PAD (NTSC).xex PAD (PAL).xex 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Rolling right along ... Installed most of the rest of the sockets, the electrolytic caps, the Q1 MOSFET and the color adjust pot. Done for awhile, I think. I have to mod my U1MB still, cut up the tall headers, and I'm still waiting on a UAV. I also got word from MacRorie that there's an issue with the combo S-Video/Composite jacks he'd ordered and provided so replacements will be coming. I'll probably just have him send everything all together along with the XEL-CEF board stuff whenever he's got it together. Oh, and I need to program the PIC chips too. EDIT: Quick question re board assembly order. The notes in the BOM say that after installing the Q1 MOSFET, to install crystal X2. Isn't that for PAL systems? Mine will be an NTSC system so shouldn't I *ALSO* install crystal X1, which isn't mentioned? And for that matter, unless I dig up a PAL ANTIC and GTIA, do I even need to install X2 at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Rolling right along ... Installed most of the rest of the sockets, the electrolytic caps, the Q1 MOSFET and the color adjust pot. Done for awhile, I think. I have to mod my U1MB still, cut up the tall headers, and I'm still waiting on a UAV. I also got word from MacRorie that there's an issue with the combo S-Video/Composite jacks he'd ordered and provided so replacements will be coming. I'll probably just have him send everything all together along with the XEL-CEF board stuff whenever he's got it together. Oh, and I need to program the PIC chips too. EDIT: Quick question re board assembly order. The notes in the BOM say that after installing the Q1 MOSFET, to install crystal X2. Isn't that for PAL systems? Mine will be an NTSC system so shouldn't I *ALSO* install crystal X1, which isn't mentioned? And for that matter, unless I dig up a PAL ANTIC and GTIA, do I even need to install X2 at all? Looking good Curious as to what was the problem with the stacked video connector For an NTSC ONLY system you can leave out all the components in the yellow rectangle (reference diagram below). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Looking good Curious as to what was the problem with the stacked video connector I got shipped the wrong item. Looks nigh identical until you try to fit it to the motherboard. Two pins are shifted. Replacements are coming, but . . . yeah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm sorry to read Firedawg's boot woes. I had high hopes it would fire right up for him. As for me, still far too cold in the garage still to work, and until the holidays are over I can't clear out a space to work inside. So for now I'm watching Jon's videos and going over my parts packs to ensure I know what goes where. With that in mind ... So two quick questions for Mac if he's reading - First, with regard to the U1MB, Jon's video show him having installed closed IDC box headers on the U1MB to mate with the tall female headers on the 1088XEL board. However, in my kit the only box headers appear to be the ones for the joystick ports and another for the MPBI connector. I do have two long rows of male header pins; am I to replace the existing U1MB 90 degree headers with rows of male headers broken from the two long strips provided in the kit? And second, also concerning the U1MB installation, my kit has two 20+20 pin tall female 0.1" headers; am I to make the three U1MB female connections to the 1088XEL by cutting (?) these tall female headers to the proper size? Thanks! Sorry, was not monitoring this thread. The two IDC box headers: Yes, you have to remove the R/A headers on the U1M and replace them with straight ones. (Be VERY careful when doing this, I have pulled the entire solder tube out of one of them--I suggest fully clipping off the r/a connectors and then desoldering). THEN you have you carefully cut the two elevated headers (look like pins stuck into a header) so that you can make 1 15x2 connector, 1 10x2 connector and 1 5x2 connector. The included build order piece of paper has a precaution about how to solder that in place. The female 0.1" pins should be soldered in for the UAV and the X1 sockets. (There maybe one other place, but I am not in front of it right now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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