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1088XEL Atari ITX Motherboard DIY Builders Thread

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ok.. successfully booted.. but there are issues.

 

1. no LEDs lit at the 555 - no 5v no ON

 

2. got the machine up and running composite video at the moment. Adjusted the POT so the screen was a nice blue. Updated the U1mb to XELnoGOS.rom

 

This is what the XEL screen looks like.. Remember the ATARI screen is as perfect as composite gets.. with this at the same time.

 

Ideas?

 

James

20190905_014019.jpg

afsdf.jpg

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31 minutes ago, Bikerbob said:

This is what the XEL screen looks like.. Remember the ATARI screen is as perfect as composite gets.. with this at the same time.

Ideas?

 

The pictures looks like not all four LUM signals reached the UAV module OR the jumper settings at the UAV module are wrong. Check jumper settings first, then the connecitivity from GTIA to the 74HCT08 and from this chip to UAV:

 

image.thumb.png.dadcb2e4e0025daba9a0d90321388e72.png

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Assuming this post is correct.. I did my settings as per the bottom one in red.

 

Also just did all the checks from pin to pin.. all connections are present.

 

James

 

Edited by Bikerbob
updated wiring checks.

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9 minutes ago, Bikerbob said:

Assuming this post is correct.. I did my settings as per the bottom one in red.

 

So beyond that.. I am not sure what to do..   am I checking for just continuity? between those traces or a signal?  I dont know what I am looking for.

 

The jumper settings in the linked post are explained for the Rev.C of UAV. I´m pretty sure you got a Rev.D these days. Here´s one example for Rev.D:

 

image.png.bd6f393fa1ab51cc4944943b52a5efad.png

 

 

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20190905_030257.thumb.jpg.dfa7e0eef23b0dd03f32db300a166388.jpg

 

now I see the background - BUT if I adjust the colour pot so that the bios screen looks good the Atari screen is MESSED.. if I adjust so the atari screen is good the bios screen has a red halo around lots of the images, words etc.

 

What about those two power LED?20190905_015629.thumb.jpg.bb013cd5c98ec7e2668468bc35f9556f.jpg

Edited by Bikerbob
udated colour output.

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7 minutes ago, Bikerbob said:

What about those two power LED?20190905_015629.thumb.jpg.bb013cd5c98ec7e2668468bc35f9556f.jpg

 

Hmm, when the board is running and soft-power on/off works also fine, I would say, that these both LEDs are simply soldered in the wrong way. Desolder the yellow LED first, turn it about 180 degrees and try it again... if it lit up, do the same for the green one.

 

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yeah only time I can get both screens to look clean and sharp is if I turn the pot so its monochrome.. looks fantastic. BUT no colour.   So .. something is still wrong.

 

James

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5 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

ok.. successfully booted.. but there are issues.

 

1. no LEDs lit at the 555 - no 5v no ON

 

Ideas?

 

James

 

 

I would have to say that your LEDs are in backwards and so not biased correctly.  It's a common mistake, one I've made more than a few times.  As you can see it's not fatal.  🙂

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Yep LEDs are in backwards for sure.

 

However your UAV module's jumpers are correct and setup for an XE which is what the XEL and XLD require.

 

148956784_RevDConnectionsJumpers.thumb.png.56ea2e57e7b4e541e2d1dc3cc3729d7a.png

 

I did encounter a UAV with a similar problem, and it turned out to be a flaw with one of the configuration jumpers not making contact. I discovered which one it was by wiggling each one until I came across the bad one.

 

tf_hh is correct that at least one of the 4 luma signals is not making it into the mix circuits of the UAV. Any number of things could cause this, everything from the bad jumpers I mentioned, to a faulty GTIA, a bad 74HCT08 (U18), a missed solder joint, to a broken trace on the board. Easy plan would be to first verify that the GTIA is good by swapping with another one, and/or placing the one from the XEL into a known good machine. Next or perhaps even before checking the GTIA, would be to put on the magnifiers and make sure everything related to the luma signals has been soldered correctly. Temporarily you can swap out the 74F08 (U11) for the 74HCT08 and see if that gives you all 4 luma outputs (if it does then you have a bad 74HCT08 that needs replacing). Remember to put the 74F08 back in the U11 socket when you are done troubleshooting, else you'll have PMG issues, especially in PAL mode.

 

Good luck :) .

 

Edit: I also remember one time having an IC pin that had folded over when it was inserted into the socket, and it caused me all kinds of grief until I discovered it. Might be good to inspect the GTIA and the 74HCT08 to see if all their pins made it into the holes ;) .

 

 

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1 hour ago, mytek said:

Yep LEDs are in backwards for sure.

 

However your UAV module's jumpers are correct and setup for an XE which is what the XEL and XLD require.

 

148956784_RevDConnectionsJumpers.thumb.png.56ea2e57e7b4e541e2d1dc3cc3729d7a.png

 

I did encounter a UAV with a similar problem, and it turned out to be a flaw with one of the configuration jumpers not making contact. I discovered which one it was by wiggling each one until I came across the bad one.

 

tf_hh is correct that at least one of the 4 luma signals is not making it into the mix circuits of the UAV. Any number of things could cause this, everything from the bad jumpers I mentioned, to a faulty GTIA, a bad 74HCT08 (U18), a missed solder joint, to a broken trace on the board. Easy plan would be to first verify that the GTIA is good by swapping with another one, and/or placing the one from the XEL into a known good machine. Next or perhaps even before checking the GTIA, would be to put on the magnifiers and make sure everything related to the luma signals has been soldered correctly. Temporarily you can swap out the 74F08 (U11) for the 74HCT08 and see if that gives you all 4 luma outputs (if it does then you have a bad 74HCT08 that needs replacing). Remember to put the 74F08 back in the U11 socket when you are done troubleshooting, else you'll have PMG issues, especially in PAL mode.

 

Good luck :) .

 

Edit: I also remember one time having an IC pin that had folded over when it was inserted into the socket, and it caused me all kinds of grief until I discovered it. Might be good to inspect the GTIA and the 74HCT08 to see if all their pins made it into the holes ;) .

 

 

Well as you say the jumpers are right.. but here is whats happening now.. I can see both the 1088 bios screen and the Atari screen.. but if I use the pot to make the atari look good.. the bios is brutal. and the reverse is true.. You say a luma is missing.. but all contacts make it.. I checked all the pin connections that tf_hh pointed out.. they are all good.   SOOOOOO????

 

SO beyond that.. What cable etc.. do I use to use that massive video output port?? or is that a MIDI port?? what is that? beside the S-video and composite.

 

I will de solder and re-solder the LEDs tonight.

 

 

I said to Jon - Jazzflashcat.. - that have a Hardware KEY might be a good idea for the component drawing that you have --- more for any jumpers, headers, connectors.   For example I asked do I put a jumper on this? or an LED or Do I need to pick and jumper the manual mouse select jumper, or that OCS jumper at the bottom of the board.. I found no instructions for any of that anywhere.

Vgate?? do I have it on or no??  Maybe even a "setup" manual rather than sifting through threads for days.  I would be willing to help etc.. except I dont know most if it yet.

Just my 2c.

 

James

Edited by Bikerbob

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James some of what you are saying doesn't make sense if we are talking about a 1088XEL, which is what this thread is all about. First of all an XEL has standard video output jacks for composite and S-Video. The DIN-13 on this series is only for connection of an RGB video monitor, which requires either a VBXE or Sophia be installed. The schematics are pretty good documents in their own rights, and clearly show where jumpers, status LEDs, and switches are to be connected. However if following a schematic is not in your wheel house, I didn't produce any other documentation other than what you can find in this thread or on my website, although I do understand that is quite a lot of pages to scan through. My website takes some of that and adds a little structure to it. For instance if you go to the XEL Accessories page or the XEL-CF3 page you'll find links to things of interest, such as connection diagrams and mounting info. This is the most that anyone can expect me to do for something I never made any money from ;)  (by my own choice).

 

If the color pot is giving you issues, you should check that transistor Q9 is correctly orientated, or perhaps change it out for a new one PN22222 or PN3904 (same as used in stock Atari). If you put a voltmeter on the junction of R26 and C36 you should see +8V~9V. If it's considerably lower, there's something likely wrong with Q9.

 

Edit: There is always the possibility that your UAV is defective, and that could explain why you are missing luma bits.

 

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Thanks Michael, I was never suggesting that it was something you should do.. I always considered this a community effort once you started getting this out there and that people contributed. I was just surprised the amount of things that Mopar told me.. and I thought.. hmmm I never read that anywhere or saw that anywhere..  its out there.. you just have to sift through things to find it. 

 

I look for ways to contribute to the community - I am a hardware hack guy - I love doing the mods, making them work, making the machines better.. I dont even use that much software on the machines. I loved this project (1088xel).  So if doing something like a "setup" rather than an assembly manual would be helpful, I would do it and share - at the moment I just am not aware how to "setup" everything myself.

 

Ok.. will look into the Q9 thing.. 

 

James

Edited by Bikerbob
spelling

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7 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

Thanks Michael, I was never suggesting that it was something you should do.. I always considered this a community effort once you started getting this out there and that people contributed.

I didn't think you were suggesting that I should do something, but sometimes its good to remind people that this project is now running off of other peoples juice, instead of my own. Heck if I had spent time working on a complete manual for this board, I doubt that we would now have its cousin the 1088XLD.

 

There was an independent project called "The Missing Manual" that covers a lot of usual "after you get it built, how do you use it" aspects.

 

Quote

I look for ways to contribute to the community - I am a hardware hack guy - I love doing the mods, making them work, making the machines better.. I dont even use that much software on the machines. I loved this project (1088xel).

Yeah I'm pretty much the same way. Love building new bits of hardware, but rarely do more than power up a game or two to see if it works. Perhaps when I get much older I'll sit down and actually use this stuff :) .

 

Quote

Ok.. will look into the Q9 thing.. 

Check the voltage first just to see where you are at. Usually when Q9 has failed you'll only see 5 volts feeding the color trim pot, which puts you on the edge of the adjustment with no place to go but down (and no picture). In the XLD I went with a better circuit, and feed the pot with a precision regulated 10 volts, which puts the pot normally pretty close to center, and gives plenty of adjustment to either side. Also having the regulated voltage, means less drift when the system warms up.

 

Good luck with your troubleshooting 👍 .

 

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5 hours ago, mytek said:

Check the voltage first just to see where you are at. Usually when Q9 has failed you'll only see 5 volts feeding the color trim pot, which puts you on the edge of the adjustment with no place to go but down (and no picture). In the XLD I went with a better circuit, and feed the pot with a precision regulated 10 volts, which puts the pot normally pretty close to center, and gives plenty of adjustment to either side. Also having the regulated voltage, means less drift when the system warms up.

 

Good luck with your troubleshooting 👍 .

 

Unfortunatly no luck. Q9 is oriented correct and I am getting 8.89v with my Multimeter. to the pot at the c36/R26 junction. I checked all pins.  OH moved the LEDs around.. they are working.. DAMM they were hard to desolder.

 

I am going to pull check the UAV.. and replace.

 

James

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The Missing Manual is great.. that was what I was thinking.

 

Checked all connections again.. added solder to any suspect points.. cleaned with IPA .. removed checked and replaced UAV. Everything seems fine. Is the 13pin RGB just like an ST output? 

 

James

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7 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

The Missing Manual is great.. that was what I was thinking.

 

Checked all connections again.. added solder to any suspect points.. cleaned with IPA .. removed checked and replaced UAV. Everything seems fine. Is the 13pin RGB just like an ST output? 

 

James

Yeah very nice contribution on that manual, so much so that I have a permanent link to the topic at the bottom of my 1088XEL page on my AtariBits site. Stuff like that is always welcome.

 

Yes the DIN-13 on the XEL is wired in a Atari ST SC1224 compatible format, although that doesn't limit it to that monitor alone. Over the years people have created cables to convert that standard to whatever the pinout was on their particular RGB monitor. The only difference in the XEL version, is that it lacks a VSYNC only output, and it has an additional audio channel for stereo. The XLD version of this jack fixes the missing VSYNC issue, and also brings out the composite and S-Video connections as well.

 

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Anyone else have an idea on my video issue?? can I do more post more pictures etc..

 

I have no idea what else to do .. everything seems to be fine.. all checks suggested have been done..   I am at a stand still.

 

James

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Try running the attached program and see if you can get decent results.  Please post a screenshot of what you get with this.  The only thing I can suggest is going over the board with a magnifying glass and absolutely triple checking components for proper placement and values along the video circuit.

acp.xex

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I have another UAV that was ment for my 800- I could set it up.. the only think I have to do is solder and de-solder the connection pins..  I am much better at soldering than de-soldering.

 

I will get the program a try tonight. Have to pickup my new to me Dell 2007FPb. Looking forward to it for 8-bit and 16bit I think. (Buying it more as a backup)

 

James 

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2 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

I have another UAV that was ment for my 800- I could set it up.. the only think I have to do is solder and de-solder the connection pins..  I am much better at soldering than de-soldering.

 

I will get the program a try tonight. Have to pickup my new to me Dell 2007FPb. Looking forward to it for 8-bit and 16bit I think. (Buying it more as a backup)

 

James 

Before you go through that effort, run the program suggested by @Stephen first, and post some photos. 

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6 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

Does the ANTIC on this board get hot? I notice mine is oretty wsrm...hmm

ANTIC shouldn’t get any hotter on the XEL than it does on any other Atari (e.g., warm but not hot). I’d look very closely under very bright magnification for any stray solder flakes around and under the ANTIC and GTIA sockets; check the solder joints around all the video components and maybe even swap that ANTIC into another system for testing.

 

Another thing - what kind of connection are you using for that flatscreen display? Are you running through composite or s-video straight into the TV or are you connected through some kind of HDMI converter?

 

EDIT: Also - the actual color signals used to create the video signal are produced by the GTIA, and it’s directly connected to ANTIC; a problem with GTIA might conceivably cause ANTIC to run hot and it could definitely cause your weird oscillating color issues. For that matter, check the connections to your crystal and all the surrounding components. 

Edited by DrVenkman

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check for backwards components/bad capacitors if a diode or cap is backwards or bad, you may be letting something by you don't want.

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