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1088XEL Atari ITX Motherboard DIY Builders Thread

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Ok.  I did the 512K upgrade and now things look and work a lot better.  Does this look about right?  Please ignore the missing color, I turned it off

to cut down on the glare from the flash.  One other question...  Does the Missile Command game only run one wave to test the joystick?

 

David

 

CIMG0885.JPG

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3 hours ago, DavidMil said:

One other question...  Does the Missile Command game only run one wave to test the joystick?

I presume you've installed the XEGS jumper on the U1MB, correct? Otherwise the built-in game ROM feature shouldn't even be accessible. 

 

That said, if you can select the XEGS ROM image and boot to MISSILE COMMAND, you should be able to play a full game.

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4 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

I presume you've installed the XEGS jumper on the U1MB, correct? Otherwise the built-in game ROM feature shouldn't even be accessible. 

 

That said, if you can select the XEGS ROM image and boot to MISSILE COMMAND, you should be able to play a full game.

The jumper is set ( I removed the U1MB and flipped it over to verify that).  After setting the System to XEGS the game played nicely!

 

David

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Great. I'm reminded I need to release another update to fix 'JED Version: 0.0'. It should read 1.0. ;)

 

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Sorry but newbies are always full of questions...

 

Where can I buy a Mouse Select Board, and the XEL Status Panel?  Also, where can I get more info on XEL-CF?

 

Thank you,

David

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16 hours ago, chevymad said:

Anybody mounted the NUC version of the fujinet internally on an XEL or XLD yet? Easy?

I cobbled together an adapter that lets me use the internal Fujinet for NUC on any machine via standard SIO port.  At most it's 13 wires to worry about - I don't honestly know how many of the 13 SIO wires are required for Fujinet.  I'm posting a link to my album (9 photos) showing what I did.  It was more just to see if I could - I wouldn't recommend it.

Internal to External Fuji-Net

 

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I see TBA sells a cased version of the NUC fujinet that plugs in now. But after looking at that, I got to thinking it might be fairly easy to just mount it internal. I'm thinking I want a 2nd fujinet instead of moving my current one between machines.

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3 minutes ago, chevymad said:

I see TBA sells a cased version of the NUC fujinet that plugs in now. But after looking at that, I got to thinking it might be fairly easy to just mount it internal. I'm thinking I want a 2nd fujinet instead of moving my current one between machines.

Ah - didn't know that was public.  Yeah - Marlin told me about it, I swear 30 minutes after I made my post showing what I did above.  I would say it was a total waste of a day, but I had fun, and it worked first try, so whatever.

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It's all good. If I didn't like building things I would have just kept using my upgraded XL. I think internal fujinet makes most sense on the XEL, since the current standup version likes to cover up the audio port. 

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@chevymad I'll be releasing the NUC-FujiNet board (V1.6) sometime this week on my website. It might be a good starting point for what you are thinking about :)

 

Although the ultimate solution would be making a custom version to fit the XEL, since the one for the 576NUC+ probably doesn't put the switches, LEDs, and the SD Card slot in a convenient place for use with the XEL.

 

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Is there any problem using 74HC (HC= Highspeed CMOS) IC's instead of 74F... IC's?  Pinouts are the same, and power consumption seems to be a little lower.

 

DavidMil

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11 hours ago, DavidMil said:

Is there any problem using 74HC (HC= Highspeed CMOS) IC's instead of 74F... IC's?  Pinouts are the same, and power consumption seems to be a little lower

 

Any place that has specifically  called for a '74F' series device requires the faster switching speed that brings. If you substituted 74HC or 74HCT there would likely be timing issues, with some not initially apparent, but there none the less.

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:03 AM, mytek said:

@chevymad I'll be releasing the NUC-FujiNet board (V1.6) sometime this week on my website. It might be a good starting point for what you are thinking about :)

 

Although the ultimate solution would be making a custom version to fit the XEL, since the one for the 576NUC+ probably doesn't put the switches, LEDs, and the SD Card slot in a convenient place for use with the XEL.

 

Looking at it, I'd think a small remote board with the switches and lights would be an answer. Thanks for the idea. 

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16 hours ago, mytek said:

 

Any place that has specifically  called for a '74F' series device requires the faster switching speed that brings. If you substituted 74HC or 74HCT there would likely be timing issues, with some not initially apparent, but there none the less.

After reading your reply I did a deeper comparison and fast chips run anywhere from two to three times fast then high speed CMOS with propagation times of

14ns (through put) compared to 25 to 29ns for most HC compatible chips.  I didn't think that the difference would be so great!  I have a lot of 74HC chips

that I was hoping I could substitute; guess not...  Thanks for the feedback mytrk.

 

David  

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9 hours ago, DavidMil said:

After reading your reply I did a deeper comparison and fast chips run anywhere from two to three times fast then high speed CMOS with propagation times of

14ns (through put) compared to 25 to 29ns for most HC compatible chips.  I didn't think that the difference would be so great!  I have a lot of 74HC chips

that I was hoping I could substitute; guess not...

I usually start out trying to use HC or sometimes HCT chips if doing a lot of interfacing to TTL (74LS) components. But later as the beta testing proceeds and timing issues are seen, I then transition those areas of concern over to the faster 74F series chips. So you can bet that anywhere I have spec'ed 74F series chips, it was because that was required to up the reliability :)

 

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2 hours ago, mytek said:

I usually start out trying to use HC or sometimes HCT chips if doing a lot of interfacing to TTL (74LS) components. But later as the beta testing proceeds and timing issues are seen, I then transition those areas of concern over to the faster 74F series chips. So you can bet that anywhere I have spec'ed 74F series chips, it was because that was required to up the reliability :)

 

Here is one of the links (TI) that I used for comparisons.  There is a lot of info there.

https://www.ti.com/lit/sg/sdyu001ab/sdyu001ab.pdf

Thanks for all the feed back.  It's been a learning experience (I'm just wondering what info is being pushed out the back of my old brain to make room for the new...)?

David

 

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yep, act and hct are my preferred, used in the Atari(s) and vehicles forever... robust, fast enough, and provides good drive. The problem that sometimes would occur would be a lesser quality some other branded chip might not be quick enough and then I'd sub an F in there just to get the job done. Times change though...

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19 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

yep, act and hct are my preferred, used in the Atari(s) and vehicles forever... robust, fast enough, and provides good drive. The problem that sometimes would occur would be a lesser quality some other branded chip might not be quick enough and then I'd sub an F in there just to get the job done. Times change though...

Hi Doc :)

 

In the beginnings of the 1088XEL development I remember running a series of tests with LS, HC/HCT, ACT, and F type 7408 chips which has one of its gates used as the phi2 buffer. If I recall the LS was actually a tad bit faster than the HC/HCT, which was enough of a difference to make or break certain timing aspects that were very important to PMG routines. The F series was just a bit faster still, and insured that all would be good. The ACT although better in speed and better in power consumption than the F, was actually getting to be too fast for our 8-bits, and was producing some big under and overshoots due to the ringing. Most likely with a better board layout this could be overcome and the ACT's would then be the chip of choice.

 

Since so few of the F series are even needed, the extra power consumption really isn't an issue (one for the main board and 4 chips for the XEL-CF3).

 

Thanks for your insights 👍

 

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On 10/11/2021 at 11:03 AM, mytek said:

@chevymad I'll be releasing the NUC-FujiNet board (V1.6) sometime this week on my website. It might be a good starting point for what you are thinking about :)

 

Although the ultimate solution would be making a custom version to fit the XEL, since the one for the 576NUC+ probably doesn't put the switches, LEDs, and the SD Card slot in a convenient place for use with the XEL.

 

Just filled the BOM. Several things I had to find equivalents, had to order from Mouser, Digikey, and Amazon, and still have to wait til mid November for one of the parts. Ebay wasn't any better. I'd probably have been better off just ordering a complete from TBA. Reminds me of buying a board set for an OSSC, then I couldn't buy the parts for it anyway. Crazy times we're in.

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What would be the advantage/disadvantage of leaving the XEGS jump on the U1MB board all the time?  If it's not enabled in ROM, does

it even matter if its jumpered?

 

David

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