Surround'Em by Peter J. Meyer available for the Atari 8-bit computer

[Mr Robot]

Wow, you guys are harsh!

 

I got stomped on for actually trying someones linux disk image yesterday and saying that it didn't offer anything new. Here you all are ripping this guy to shreds based on just some youtube videos! :/

 

It's taking me a while to acclimate to this forum.. I'll get there.

[+Philsan]

Wow, you guys are harsh!

 

I got stomped on for actually trying someones linux disk image yesterday and saying that it didn't offer anything new. Here you all are ripping this guy to shreds based on just some youtube videos! :/

 

It's taking me a while to acclimate to this forum.. I'll get there.

This forum is not made up of harsh people!

 

The best Atari programmers and users are here and they help everyone, especially not skilled people.

 

You are new here so you don't know what happened before.

Peter is a good programmer but there have been some controversies concerning the policies of his software house.

Moreover his games are not released for free, unlike all Atari games (even the best ones).

Therefore people want excellent and bug free games from him.

 

I can assure you that if you program poor games or demos (like I did) and you don't ask money, everyone will support and cheer.

[Mr Robot]

I figured there was history with Peter. In my short time here so far I have seen that there is a core of helpful people, surrounded by a bunch of people who have strong opinions and not a lot else to offer. I'm lurking and learning, I should probably lurk more before chipping in!

[+Stephen]

I figured there was history with Peter. In my short time here so far I have seen that there is a core of helpful people, surrounded by a bunch of people who have strong opinions and not a lot else to offer. I'm lurking and learning, I should probably lurk more before chipping in!

Not at all! New members and new discussion is great. Just don't ask a question that is #1 on the FAQ, without consulting the FAQ

[peteym5]

It is no doubt there are some people will bash, harass, bitch, or do whatever until they to get something for free. I am in the retail and security business and I see it all the time.

 

I know I am not the only one selling games on the Atari platforms. The AtariAge store is offering several Atari cartridges for all the platforms. Those games are not free. Video61 also has a collection of cartridges made by other programmers

 

I can fix this minor issue and make a new Youtube Video, if more people be willing to purchase the cartridge. I will post if and when an updated cartridge is available. Not any of the people who bought the cartridge has posted a complaint here, or reported anything back to Video 61. This issue is not enough to render the game unplayable or causes a freeze up or crash. If anyone has further concerns, you may contact Video61.

[flashjazzcat]

Developers who release everything for free also have to fix bugs and respond to criticism. There are various monetary incentives (shareware, donationware, etc) which allow the user to pay once they're completely happy with the product, but generally speaking once money is involved, the quality threshold goes up. If I purchase an item, discover it to be faulty, and then complain to the vendor about said fault, this does not imply that I didn't think it reasonable to have to pay for the product in the first place... providing it works.

Edited January 26, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[Mr Robot]

Scarcity creates value, if something is rare it's worth more.

 

I see where peteym5 is going wrong, he thinks the game has value because it's a game. It's just a bunch of 1's and 0's. The stuff that has value is the cart, box, instructions, pack-in goodies and all the other stuff that collectors love to collect. Those are rare. The game itself, not so much. It has value as a 'thing' but because its scarcity is effectively nil, it's endlessly duplicatable, the value is not that high.

 

People who care about collecting will be willing to pay a premium for all the physical stuff, people who just want to play the game would be willing to blow 5 or 10 $currency; on it but not the amount required to own the scarce goods.

 

People who want the cart will buy it whether there is a digital version out there or not, the 1's and 0's are not the important bit for them. It seems to me that Video61 could make a few extra $currency; with a digital release without impacting the collectors market at all.

 

With the size of the Atari scene as it is, it seems foolish to not maximise the opportunities for making a little extra cash, if that is your 'thing'

[peteym5]

Surround'Em is a copyrighted game. There will be no free copies of the full versions of games provided from us. Customer and Technical support is only provided for those that own the cartridge. Stolen or pirated copies are not supported. The cartridge is available $39.95 with free shipping.

 

The cartridge is sold in a plastic clam shell, with a label that lasts longer than cardboard boxes. Cartridge has a nice laser printed label. A printed and laminated instruction sheet is provided. All design to resist wear and tear.

 

The reason why Antic Mode D(13) mode (OS Graphics mode 7) is used with Double line player missile mode is to help the game use only the first 16K RAM. This has to be shared with page 0, stack, fonts, and RAM loaded sections of the program. This series of 16K (ROM) for 16K (RAM) are intended for universal Atari 8-bit compatibility and be portable to the Atari 5200. Also the pixel height is close to being proportional to the height. I was considering using 2 alternating graphics 15 screens to generate a SuperIRG like effect for more colors. Also considered Graphics 10 and APAC modes.

 

I have got positive responses so far from those who bought the game and they liked all the different game options. As stated earlier, this is considered to have many different games onto a single cartridge.

 

Something I am going to keep part of an open technical discussion. Surround'Em supports up to 4 players. On the Atari 800 it makes use of the 4 joystick ports. Does the 400 have 4 ports. On the Atari 600XL, 800XL, 65XE, 130XE, XEGS, there is an option to use the Multijoy8 interface. The first 4 joystick ports are used. As always using extra and custom hardware and custom controllers is at the users risk.

 

Surround'Em also works with the Indy 500 Driving Controllers. I decided not to try making it work with paddles, trackball, mouse, etc. because I felt the game will not be playable.

Edited January 26, 2018 by peteym5

[Mr Robot]

Surround'Em is a copyrighted game. There will be no free copies of the full versions of games provided from us. Customer and Technical support is only provided for those that own the cartridge. Stolen or pirated copies are not supported. The cartridge is available $39.95 with free shipping.

 

Ever considered selling a digital version? I don't collect Atari carts, I'd pay $5 for a .car or .xex file.

[_The Doctor__]

going rate for digital versions of other software is about 10.00

[Mr Robot]

And I'd be happy to pay 10.00 (or even 20.00) for something like Laura or AtariBlast, but this is a 5.00 game at best.

 

This is a game I don't even want to play; that I have better versions of the genre already; that I would buy just to support the developer and say thanks for still writing Atari software.

[+Philsan]

Pete, as you know I have never participated in the discussions concerning your software policy.

 

I just explained to our new friend Mr Robot that this forum is made of friendly people and that some harsh replies are due to disputes that come from the past.

 

I wrote that all Atari games are released for free (apart yours): obviously I meant Atari 8 bit computers platform.

To be precise, there are three other games not free (Xenophobe - to recover price paid to buy prototype from a collector, Beef Drop and another one I don't remember).

 

The best A8 games are free to download; some of them are available with awesome package for collectors: homebrew games packages.

BTW, you received some criticism because of poor packages.

I remember advising you that your games deserve good packages.

[Mr Robot]

The best A8 games are free to download; some of them are available with awesome package for collectors: homebrew games packages.

 

 

Ummm, WOW! I had no idea so much love goes into these things, I can see why collectors are willing to pay for them!

[tep392]

I probably shouldn't continue this line of discussion, since its been done many times before, but I'll state my opinion about digital distribution.

 

First, I think it has little impact on piracy for these 8-bit computers. That is because copying of 8-bit computer homebrews is so trivial, that limiting distribution to physical copies will do nothing to prevent it. If someone wants to make a copy and give it away or even sell it, it can't be stopped. Most importantly, the people that would rather get a pirated copy than buy a legit one are unlikely to buy it in the first place. These are homebrews that sell in the hundreds at best and those sales are primarily to collectors who want to own physical copies. I've offered digital copies of my 7800 Donkey Kong XM/PK and I would estimate less than 2% of my sales have been digital.

 

My second point is that digital copies can be priced to provide the same or nearly the same profit as a physical copy. This saves the budget minded buyer money and the author loses nothing. It's really a win/win situation for both. Additionally, if bugs are found in a game, it is much less painless to fix the issue with the people who bought the digital copy.

 

Of course this is just my opinion, and Pete can do whatever he wants with his games. He should not get flack for it.

[Keatah]

Ummm, WOW! I had no idea so much love goes into these things, I can see why collectors are willing to pay for them!

 

The Champ Games, Spiceware, Dintar, CD-W offerings are right up there at the top. These games are so good and groundbreaking that the premier emulator, stella, was sometimes updated to keep the tools and debugger at the forefront, and the games playable. That is nice.

 

I'm talking about VCS games, not Atari 8-bit computer games. And I mentioned it becase because quality games were mentioned.

[_The Doctor__]

I sometimes wonder if someone has a warehouse full of cartridge pcb's and shell that they desperately want to sell, so they purposely force people into agreements and distribution rights so that they can offload the stuff that way and that way alone... perhaps they're pissed because of the new developments of quality and awesome 3D printed cases, shells and the like, as well as dirt cheap pcb costs involved in making their own cartridge pcb's. I almost lost it when I realized how little the coder actually gets per sale from some of these, When properly set up with even the smallest home made push it by hand wave solder pool, you can print a ton of labels, gang burn the eproms, stuff an incredible number of cart pcb, push them across the solder, pop in the proms, drop it in a case, snap it together and slap a label on it. Honestly properly set up, 1 man can run the whole line on a swivel chair practically. I've seen it done.

The other thing people don't take advantage of is college, university, and technical school fab labs that do injection molding. You can approach them for small projects, they like to simulate the manufacturing process for each years scholars, such that they do everything from talks, to design, to mold, to process, to delivered product. I don't think many people realize this.

Edited January 26, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[peteym5]

No comment about pay-for-download. People will just bash the shit out of any response I give. Have an issue, contact Video61.

 

Video61 has hundreds of PCBs and cartridge shells. I do not have exact figures of each type. But have many of the original 16K brown shell and XEGS 2-piece shell. Has many of Williams 32K/64K the board and shell. From what I understand, when Atari was liquidating assets in the early 1990s, Video61 jumped in and bought up lots of stuff. 16K games require 2 x 8K Eproms, Williams can take 2 x 32K Eproms.

 

I have 9 games that fit into 16K completed. About 5 more are in early design phase, but I am setting that aside to do some 7800 ports. Everything so far has also been ported to the 5200. Video61 has a lot of 5200 and 2600/7800 shells also.

 

Now if somebody here wants to turn their games into collectors item in cartridge format, make a little money, please contact Video61. The game has to a binary divided into 2 8K Eprom files with the binary header. Video61 has a laminator, laser printer, and has a supplier for those plastic clam shells. I know Albert can burn eproms also here in the United States. I cannot state exact royalty you get because that is confidential, you will need to ask these guys in a private message.

Edited January 27, 2018 by peteym5

[Synthpopalooza]

Here's an idea for a variation ...

 

Both trails are the background color and are invisible. However: a wide PMG surrounds both players, and will show up the trails due to priorities. Think of it like an area of light surrounding the players and enabling you to see the otherwise invisible walls. I think this would be challenging.

 

I did a cheap Surround type game called MicroEnviron in TurboBASIC in 1988 which uses this idea ... the game used Graphics 15 mode.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Synthpopalooza

[Keatah]

I see what's happening now.

[peteym5]

Here's an idea for a variation ...

 

Both trails are the background color and are invisible. However: a wide PMG surrounds both players, and will show up the trails due to priorities. Think of it like an area of light surrounding the players and enabling you to see the otherwise invisible walls. I think this would be challenging.

 

I did a cheap Surround type game called MicroEnviron in TurboBASIC in 1988 which uses this idea ... the game used Graphics 15 mode.

 

 

That is in interesting ideal. I would need to adjust my multiplexer routine to keep certain sprites in front. I also thought about doing something with a scrolling screen, when you would only see part of the arena with many enemies trying to surround you or you surround them. On the growing slither game, I could instead have the "points" count down. The sooner you get them, the more points you get. When 0, then disappear. Maybe a sequel someday. I had not started up a 7800 port also, but these ideals can be incorporated.

[peteym5]

 

Version 1.2 Update. Released March 2018. Since Less than 5 units sold in first few months, we did a quick update. Higher Res clear video of the game. Smaller Water Mark.

 

Added background Music and Improved the sound effects. New Video shows the many different game options and how tough the game can get in later levels. Corrected the wrap around graphics glitch.

 

You can play traditional Surround Type Game. Have options to turn off the border, pressing button disables your path, 45 or 90 degree turn. Play against 3 or 6 opponents max.

 

Growing Slither Game. The Line behind your ship starts with a limited length, When you touch the fruit shapes for points, the line grows, adding difficulty as you proceed. Dodge the none collectible obstacles.

 

Space Man Web Rescue. Rescue Men in floating in zero gravity in space suits before their oxygen runs out and you get surrounded by the web being constructed by the aliens. Does this sound like a story out of a popular Sci-Fi series?

 

Dodge Survival Game. Try to see how long you can survive just dodging obstacles, getting points for how long you survive. Your final score will be on the title screen when the game ends. I was going to port my Turbo Basic XL "Dodge Survive" to an all 6502 Assembly Language game, but felt it was not strong enough to sell on its own. So I made something similar using the Surround'Em set up. It was an experiment I did many years ago to test peripheral vision and reflexes.

 

Here is a link of a web page I am working on. http://peters-atari-games.000webhostapp.com/

 

Game Cartridge is $39.95.

Edited September 5, 2018 by peteym5

[_The Doctor__]

 

Version 1.2 Update. Released March 2018. Since Less than 5 units sold in first few months, we did a quick update. Higher Res clear video of the game. Smaller Water Mark.

 

Added background Music and Improved the sound effects. New Video shows the many different game options and how tough the game can get in later levels. Corrected the wrap around graphics glitch.

 

You can play traditional Surround Type Game. Have options to turn off the border, pressing button disables your path, 45 or 90 degree turn. Play against 3 or 6 opponents max.

 

Growing Slither Game. The Line behind your ship starts with a limited length, When you touch the fruit shapes for points, the line grows, adding difficulty as you proceed. Dodge the none collectible obstacles.

 

Space Man Web Rescue. Rescue Men in floating in zero gravity in space suits before their oxygen runs out and you get surrounded by the web being constructed by the aliens. Does this sound like a story out of a popular Sci-Fi series?

 

Dodge Survival Game. Try to see how long you can survive just dodging obstacles, getting points for how long you survive. Your final score will be on the title screen when the game ends. I was going to port my Turbo Basic XL "Dodge Survive" to an all 6502 Assembly Language game, but felt it was not strong enough to sell on its own. So I made something similar using the Surround'Em set up. It was an experiment I did many years ago to test peripheral vision and reflexes.

 

Here is a link of a web page I am working on. http://peters-atari-games.000webhostapp.com/

 

Game Cartridge is $39.95.

Very good, this is finally something of interest... Glad you made improvements and bug fixes, might be worth it now.