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retroillucid

Sydney Hunter Part.2

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7 hours ago, xybot67 said:

...It actually looks better than most nes games....

You are not wrong, the way the game looks, it would be impossible to make it exactly like this on NES
For instance, brick are using 4 colors + Black 
NES could only do 3 colors + Black 

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12 minutes ago, NIAD said:

I have to ask....

 

When are you going to release "The Best of Sydney Hunter". That could be the one where you hold nothing back and design an Arcade Cabinet style box!

 


Maybe one day  ;)

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While I was working on Dead Tomb for NES, I remember being pissed off by the graphic limitations, mainly cause I was used in doing graphics for ColecoVision and believe it or not, the ColecoVision can do a few things the NES can't do. 
I posted my feeling on my Facebook feed and Dylan Cuthbert (the programmer of Star Fox) answered my post.. 
He was basically saying, when he was working on games back in the days, he always tried to do things that seems imposssible to do with the limitations by taking fully advantage of the console
It tickle my mind for awhile, while I've been working on Dead Tomb for NES ...


I didn't knew the NES graphic limitations enough (at that time) to do this on NES, but on the ColecoVision.... maybe ?

Then one day, while I showed an early concept screen of Yucatan Jungle to Toby, he asked me if I could take fully advantage of the CV graphics limitations.
The only ''rule'' was the game had to run on a plain vanilla ColecoVision system, without ANY enhanced hardware like the F18A or the SGM. 
So what I did is I checked all of the most detailed games released on ColecoVision, MSX and SG-1000 and studied how their graphics were made.

 

Then I completely re-think the way I was doing the graphics for Yucatan Jungle, in example I used as much colors as possible for the water animation, for the bricks, grass, the sky etc.. 
I remember working on the that simple brick (used for Temples), and came up with a design that uses 5 colors (including black) and told myself; ''Wait, the NES can only use 4 colors!'' (including black), and then everything fall together.
I knew I could came up with something looking as good as a NES game.
I've also considered the number of sprites I could use on the same scanline, and taking advantage of it by using more colors for sprites if they were not being used on the same scanline as Sydney or other enemies. (the main action)

 

Previously made Sacred Tribe, I knew by using black as the background color, I could show alot of intricated details, and by using one different color per scan line for the sky (thanks to Cabbage Patch Kids Adventure in the Park), I could make beautiful sky sceneries.
I was inspired (alot!) by, Pitfall, Cabbage Patch Kids Adventure in the Park, Tarzan, Jungle Hunt, Montezuma's Revenge, Super Mario Bros 2 and Zelda 2

 

Having good graphics is one thing, but I knew I had to come up with something fun as well, but also different from Sacred Tribe and Caverns of Death. (different game mechanics)
I did checked what went right and ''wrong'' with those games (Sacred Tribe & Caverns of Death) and I just tried to improved over those games. 

There's no special tricks used (other than breaking the 32K catridge limit) but I think if Coleco pursued the development of CV games, they would had broke the 32k limit anyway, due to the eprom falling prices. 

Think of Yucatan Jungle like if it was released back in late 84 or maybe 1985.... 

Yes, this game catridge is going to run on your original ColecoVision console and that's exactly the point of this game development.
To prove that a very detailed AND FUN game can be created and run on an original ColecoVision game console without ANY special hardware!

 

I hope you're going to have as much fun playing it as I have creating it! 
''The best is yet to come!'' 
 

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That's exactly what i claim since years,  the Colecovision do not need SGM or what ever extension to create wonderful game.   just need talented graphists , talented programmers and talented composers!

 

Most of games out there requiring the SGM could have been done even better without it!    You just need ROM space in the cartridge!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, youki said:

That's exactly what i claim since years,  the Colecovision do not need SGM or what ever extension to create wonderful game.   just need talented graphists , talented programmers and talented composers!

 

Most of games out there requiring the SGM could have been done even better without it!    You just need ROM space in the cartridge!

 

 

I agreed!
You just need a good programmer, a good composer and a good artist.... and alot of inspirations!

Rom space is a must when you want to make ''great scale'' game 
But then again, Coleco would had break the 32k limit if they had pursued the CV game development

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1 hour ago, youki said:

That's exactly what i claim since years,  the Colecovision do not need SGM or what ever extension to create wonderful game.   just need talented graphists , talented programmers and talented composers!

 

Most of games out there requiring the SGM could have been done even better without it!    You just need ROM space in the cartridge!

You forgot to say that MSX ports are inherently evil, like you usually do.  :roll: 

 

Frankly, your constant SGM bashing every chance you get is getting really tiresome.

 

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i don't bash SGM ,  i have nothing against the SGM itself.  It is how it is mainly exploited until now that i regret. 

 

 

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TMS9918A is limiting and has no ability to flip sprite graphic in hardware.  One trick I learned is to stuff more sprite graphic into the unused VRAM banks without directly redefine the sprite pattern.  I would put the regular graphic version into 1 bank, then flipped version in the 2nd bank, and then extra into the 3rd bank.  Then duplicate the enemy or normal object into the 3 banks.  In Mean Santa, I load all of the sprite graphics at once into the 3 bank.  1st bank the sleigh graphic, the 2nd and 3rd are the grinch and the toys.  I swap between 2nd and 3rd bank to animate the dog, and toys animation.  So I have can have more toys taking up the sprite pattern tables. 

I experimented with smooth vertical scrolling by loading 4 pattern tables into VRAM and set the video mode to screen mode 1.  So I can avoid doing a lot of DMA to the TMS9918A chip.

Of course, I still can redefine the first few sprite pattern table for the main character to allow 60 sprite patterns for the other object. 

SGM would be good to decompress data into to keep the game under 32KB. 

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8 hours ago, Pixelboy said:

You forgot to say that MSX ports are inherently evil, like you usually do.  :roll: 

 

Frankly, your constant SGM bashing every chance you get is getting really tiresome.

 

I would never bought a MSX computer + games, I already have enough game consoles here
So for me, the MSX (and SG-1000) ports were a blessing

As for the SGM (or F18A), I think it is interesting for doing things that were previously impossible to do on a stock CV console.
The point of my post wasn't to bash those hardware, but simply to proove you could make very detailed games on a stock CV console.   

(I know your answer was not aimed at me, but I wanted to clear that out in case there were confusion)   :)

Edited by retroillucid

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1 hour ago, retroillucid said:


As for the SGM (or F18A), I think it is interesting for doing things that were previously impossible to do on a stock CV console.
 

That was exactly my point too.

 

 

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13 hours ago, retroillucid said:

While I was working on Dead Tomb for NES, I remember being pissed off by the graphic limitations, mainly cause I was used in doing graphics for ColecoVision and believe it or not, the ColecoVision can do a few things the NES can't do. 
I posted my feeling on my Facebook feed and Dylan Cuthbert (the programmer of Star Fox) answered my post.. 
He was basically saying, when he was working on games back in the days, he always tried to do things that seems imposssible to do with the limitations by taking fully advantage of the console
It tickle my mind for awhile, while I've been working on Dead Tomb for NES ...


I didn't knew the NES graphic limitations enough (at that time) to do this on NES, but on the ColecoVision.... maybe ?

Then one day, while I showed an early concept screen of Yucatan Jungle to Toby, he asked me if I could take fully advantage of the CV graphics limitations.
The only ''rule'' was the game had to run on a plain vanilla ColecoVision system, without ANY enhanced hardware like the F18A or the SGM. 
So what I did is I checked all of the most detailed games released on ColecoVision, MSX and SG-1000 and studied how their graphics were made.

 

Then I completely re-think the way I was doing the graphics for Yucatan Jungle, in example I used as much colors as possible for the water animation, for the bricks, grass, the sky etc.. 
I remember working on the that simple brick (used for Temples), and came up with a design that uses 5 colors (including black) and told myself; ''Wait, the NES can only use 4 colors!'' (including black), and then everything fall together.
I knew I could came up with something looking as good as a NES game.
I've also considered the number of sprites I could use on the same scanline, and taking advantage of it by using more colors for sprites if they were not being used on the same scanline as Sydney or other enemies. (the main action)

 

Previously made Sacred Tribe, I knew by using black as the background color, I could show alot of intricated details, and by using one different color per scan line for the sky (thanks to Cabbage Patch Kids Adventure in the Park), I could make beautiful sky sceneries.
I was inspired (alot!) by, Pitfall, Cabbage Patch Kids Adventure in the Park, Tarzan, Jungle Hunt, Montezuma's Revenge, Super Mario Bros 2 and Zelda 2

 

Having good graphics is one thing, but I knew I had to come up with something fun as well, but also different from Sacred Tribe and Caverns of Death. (different game mechanics)
I did checked what went right and ''wrong'' with those games (Sacred Tribe & Caverns of Death) and I just tried to improved over those games. 

There's no special tricks used (other than breaking the 32K catridge limit) but I think if Coleco pursued the development of CV games, they would had broke the 32k limit anyway, due to the eprom falling prices. 

Think of Yucatan Jungle like if it was released back in late 84 or maybe 1985.... 

Yes, this game catridge is going to run on your original ColecoVision console and that's exactly the point of this game development.
To prove that a very detailed AND FUN game can be created and run on an original ColecoVision game console without ANY special hardware!

 

I hope you're going to have as much fun playing it as I have creating it! 
''The best is yet to come!'' 
 

Not only do I like your games, I like to hear all of the shit that goes into it. You guys and TeamPixelBoy are the reason I got back into Colecovision. 

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Here's a little update regarding Sydney Hunter & The Yucatan Jungle.
 

I'm working on and off on it since I've been very busy working on other current projects we have in the pipe at CollectorVision.
 

Anyway, here's a few wip screens to show you how the game is gonna look like when it's completely done.

I'm really trying to push the Colecovision system's limitations to the limit and personally, I think it shows.

But, you'll be the judge.


This game will run on a plain vanilla Colecovision, mind you 

 


 

desert.png

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The mushroom looks delicious, one of the color has to be sprite since there's 3 colors in 8x8 square.  Maybe there's a kooky witch somewhere in the game that you can give her mushrooms to make you a soup, tattoo or a potion. Very nicely drawn background.

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17 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

The mushroom looks delicious, one of the color has to be sprite since there's 3 colors in 8x8 square.

Yep, one tile and one sprite ;) 

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just amazing!   i love your GraphiCS (am i correct NIAD? :) )

 

I think you are using the MSX palette here ?

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2 hours ago, youki said:

just amazing!   i love your GraphiCS (am i correct NIAD? :) )

 

I think you are using the MSX palette here ?

JF speaks French too I believe so graphism is fine too.  😛 ;-) (I think.) 🤔

It's TMS9918A palette...  Depends on the TV/Monitor's electronic gun. EXAMPLE: The pink's orange on CRT, dark red is more brown. Sky Jaguar really shows off the color usage on CRT tv when in the canyon zone. 

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7 hours ago, youki said:

just amazing!   i love your GraphiCS (am i correct NIAD? :) )

A tiny bit odd that only a couple days later and JF is posting some incredible looking GraphISM! 😎

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12 minutes ago, NIAD said:

A tiny bit odd that only a couple days later and JF is posting some incredible looking GraphISM! 😎

uh?
I think I missed something 

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7 hours ago, youki said:

 

I think you are using the MSX palette here ?

 

5 hours ago, Kiwi said:


It's TMS9918A palette...  Depends on the TV/Monitor's electronic gun. EXAMPLE: The pink's orange on CRT, dark red is more brown. Sky Jaguar really shows off the color usage on CRT tv when in the canyon zone. 


Yeah, I always use the darker palette since it just look better.

But yeah, Kiwi is right,  it all depends on the TV you're using. 

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55 minutes ago, retroillucid said:
1 hour ago, NIAD said:

A tiny bit odd that only a couple days later and JF is posting some incredible looking GraphISM! 😎

uh?
I think I missed something 

A sordid story about graph paper fetish. Forget about it.

 

:P

 

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