Ben Heck’s Todd Roger’s Dragster 5.51 record Part2

[Flojomojo]

So much drama!

 

"Biggest Cheater In Video Games History fully exposed for 35+ years of bullshittery"

 

[Goochman]

So much drama!

 

"Biggest Cheater In Video Games History fully exposed for 35+ years of bullshittery"

 

 

The issue with the claim that video makes about tapes never existing is also false. I understand the desire to produce hitjobs against Todd, but how many of these do we need to make?

[Shawn]

 

The issue with the claim that video makes about tapes never existing is also false. I understand the desire to produce hitjobs against Todd, but how many of these do we need to make?

 

The issue being addressed in that part of the video is Todd says tapes that where taken by the police where not returned and that is not true. The police returned all tapes.

[Goochman]

 

The issue being addressed in that part of the video is Todd says tapes that where taken by the police where not returned and that is not true. The police returned all tapes.

 

And the video then states that since 1700 tapes werent found that the videos didnt exist at all - they have 0 evidence to make this claim, its just there to justify their line of attack. They have no clue as to the turmoil surrounding the event made light of in that video. Slam Todd all you want, but there are other parties effected by the situation being dragged up in this video which does nothing to further the so called 'evidence'.

[keepdreamin]

 

And the video then states that since 1700 tapes werent found that the videos didnt exist at all - they have 0 evidence to make this claim, its just there to justify their line of attack.

 

I really have to explain this?

 

Yeah... see... That's not how burden of proof works. The party making the claim for something existing is responsible for producing. If Todd said there was all those tapes, HE has the burden to prove they exist. The burden isn't on the shoulders of those saying he's full of it.

 

For example, if you told me the center of the Moon had a marshmallow filling. There is nothing I can do or say to prove you otherwise. that doesn't mean your assertion as such holds any credibility whatsoever. The burden is on you to prove as such. It would be well within logical reason to say you're full of BS.

[Shawn]

 

I really have to explain this?

 

Yeah... see... That's not how burden of proof works. The party making the claim for something existing is responsible for producing. If Todd said there was all those tapes, HE has the burden to prove they exist. The burden isn't on the shoulders of those saying he's full of it.

 

For example, if you told me the center of the Moon had a marshmallow filling. There is nothing I can do or say to prove you otherwise. that doesn't mean your assertion as such holds any credibility whatsoever. The burden is on you to prove as such. It would be well within logical reason to say you're full of BS.

 

Bingo! Add a track record of proven fake scores and other tomfoolery into that mix as well and the result is a strong case for saying anything that Todd can't provide proof for should be discounted and discredited until proven otherwise. Surely not the other way around.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

...anything that Todd can't provide proof for should be discounted and discredited until proven otherwise. Surely not the other way around.

What would that mean for other records (not Todd related)? Remember, same rules for everyone!

 

So if anyone claims a record to be fake, the record owner has to proof his record again? And again? And again? ...

 

In real life, if someone wants a new or known fact to be added, changed or removed, the burden of prove or disprove is up to that person. Definitely not vice versa.

[TwiliteZoner]

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle. I think Todd's new moniker should be Mr. Reality Distortion Field. Maybe Mr Jobs was his Guru?

 

If his record as he states was pulled off not once, but twice, how else can this be explained? Unless however improbable it seems he actually did pull off the score.

 

You would think his live scores would have been documented in some magazine or trade paper from the time especially since one took place at CES.

[Dauber]

"Corseran," huh? So why would the first "cor" be pronounced with a hard "c" but the second "cor" be pronounced with a soft "c"??

 

Sorry, my brain is wired to just not get past that...

[+Nathan Strum]

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle. I think Todd's new moniker should be Mr. Reality Distortion Field. Maybe Mr Jobs was his Guru?

 

If his record as he states was pulled off not once, but twice, how else can this be explained? Unless however improbable it seems he actually did pull off the score.

 

You would think his live scores would have been documented in some magazine or trade paper from the time especially since one took place at CES.

 

 

Actually, I think he claims he did it three times - once at home, and twice at two different trade shows. Which brings up the question - who else was at those trade shows?

[R.Cade]

 

 

Actually, I think he claims he did it three times - once at home, and twice at two different trade shows. Which brings up the question - who else was at those trade shows?

 

Like they would remember something that insignificant clearly... People can't reliably recall things minutes later.

 

If you mean video proof, back in those days people didn't carry around cell phones that record everything.

Edited January 26, 2018 by R.Cade

[keepdreamin]

What would that mean for other records (not Todd related)? Remember, same rules for everyone!

 

So if anyone claims a record to be fake, the record owner has to proof his record again? And again? And again? ...

 

In real life, if someone wants a new or known fact to be added, changed or removed, the burden of prove or disprove is up to that person. Definitely not vice versa.

No, not same rules for everyone. If you engage in unscrupulous behavior (like Todd) that results in ramifications, just like real life.

 

Constantly missing or slipping up at work? That might result in probationary status.

 

Poor driving record? Increased insurance.

 

Known cheat at video game records?anything you have done or will do, will need ironclad backup.

 

Yet again I'm explaining what should be blatantly obvious

Edited January 26, 2018 by keepdreamin

[R.Cade]

In this case, the issue is that there was never any proof.

[Fragmare]

Lol, awesome, I love seeing cheating assbags get busted like this! XD

[+Nathan Strum]

Like they would remember something that insignificant clearly... People can't reliably recall things minutes later.

 

Of course - but I think it's interesting Todd has never brought up "so-and-so from Activision was there with me". Even just to confirm he was actually there.

[HatefulGravey]

How is it that the sum of Todd's questionable records don't call all of his records into question? My understanding is that there are records out there that he has claimed that we know beyond any question to be impossible. How many professional poker games do you think you get to cheat before they stop letting you play poker?

[Inky]

As of 5:36 AM today, according to another thread, all of Todd Rogers records have been disqualified.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274915-todd-rogers-banned-from-twin-galaxies-and-records-removed/

[+Nathan Strum]

I'm glad to see this line in their post:

 

 

Twin Galaxies is dedicated to absolutely rooting out invalid scores from our historic database wherever we find them.

 

When I picked up their book years ago - I was surprised how packed full of unsubstantiated scores it was (mostly the pages and pages just copied from old magazines like Nintendo Power). If you're proclaiming yourself to be the official world record keeper of something, then the standard should be very high for inclusion in the first place. If you're merely reprinting old records from other sources that are more of a historical curiosity, that's different. That's what Twin Galaxies had been doing.

 

I enjoyed the stories in the TG book, and am still fascinated by that whole era. But I never really took the records in there seriously. [controversial opinion] I'm of the mindset that world records should be performed in person, on original hardware. No home recordings. No photos. No emulation. Yes - that makes it much harder to submit a score, but that's entirely the point. Prove you can do it, and if you have to travel to an event to do it - so be it. They don't accept world records for land speed records or athletics on the basis of "well, I did it at home - here's a photo". [/controversial opinion]

[VectorGamer]

I'm of the mindset that world records should be performed in person, on original hardware. No home recordings. No photos. No emulation. Yes - that makes it much harder to submit a score, but that's entirely the point. Prove you can do it, and if you have to travel to an event to do it - so be it. They don't accept world records for land speed records or athletics on the basis of "well, I did it at home - here's a photo". [/controversial opinion]

Definitely not photos.

 

But it's not the early 80s anymore. How many classic arcade/classic console competitions are going on in a calendar year? Not many. Which is why competitors should be able to submit sufficient video evidence for score submissions.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

Pretty much any other world record has to be done in front of an official judge or at some sort of official event, why should video games be any different? IF TG really wants to be the "Official" keeper of video game world records, they need to send representatives to the big video game and pinball expos or sponsor events at arcades with reps on-site to validate record attempts. Any old records that were grandfathered in from the old days of calling Walter on the phone and telling him your score (or taken from, say, an Activision newsletter) should be removed or at the very least asterisked. Photos and videos are fine for friendly competitions like the High Score Club or "unofficial" score sites like Highscore.com, but TG needs to have a higher standard.

[VectorGamer]

Pretty much any other world record has to be done in front of an official judge or at some sort of official event, why should video games be any different?

 

Strictly speaking of classic arcade/console games: low level of interest. I don't recall the exact number of participants in last summer's ReplayFX arcade tournament, but I'll guesstimate that there were less than 50 participants. My first Funspot tournament in 2010 there was about 150 participants.

[Dauber]

Pretty much any other world record has to be done in front of an official judge or at some sort of official event, why should video games be any different? IF TG really wants to be the "Official" keeper of video game world records, they need to send representatives to the big video game and pinball expos or sponsor events at arcades with reps on-site to validate record attempts.

The way I see it, the Guinness Book is the keeper of actual world records, period, including video games. Twin Galaxies, as far as I'm concerned, is a scoreboard. just like Aurcade.com and highscores.com. If Guinness chooses to use TG as their source, though, so be it...

 

Any old records that were grandfathered in from the old days of calling Walter on the phone and telling him your score (or taken from, say, an Activision newsletter) should be removed or at the very least asterisked.

In a way, they *are* asterisked...because every score has an indicator as to how the score was adjudicated: TGSAP, DVD, referee, etc. "Referee" tells me that it was witnessed live by someone that TG recognized as an official source.

[+KaeruYojimbo]

 

Strictly speaking of classic arcade/console games: low level of interest.

There's a pretty low level of interest for most world records. The only people who care about the record for something like staying on a unicycle the longest are the guy who has the record, the guy trying to break the record and the owner of the Ford dealership that's hosting the record attempt hoping it'll draw in some customers who just want to be able to say they saw a world record set and don't care what the actual record was. Someone still has to come out and verify that the guy stayed on the unicycle long enough. Edited January 29, 2018 by KaeruYojimbo

[Flojomojo]

I agree that world records in general aren't that much fun anymore -- like the toilet-reading paperback Guinness Book itself, they seem like a relic of the Atari days. And I say this as someone who knows people who participated in the worlds largest banana split sundae.

 

Speaking of which, the "gamers edition" is more like a video game buyers guide:

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/products/books/gamers-edition-2018

[VectorGamer]

There's a pretty low level of interest for most world records. The only people who care about the record for something like staying on a unicycle the longest are the guy who has the record, the guy trying to break the record and the owner of the Ford dealership that's hosting the record attempt hoping it'll draw in some customers who just want to be able to say they saw a world record set and don't care what the actual record was. Someone still has to come out and verify that the guy stayed on the unicycle long enough.

 

For shits and grins, tell me what the process would be if a person wants to a new world record attempt on Lock N Chase for the Intellivision.