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blakespot

800XL s-video cable to Sony PVM - did I blow the CRT?

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Ok, so I have an 800XL and a 130XE here (both NTSC) and ordered a s-video cable from 8BitClassics. I have an incoming 800XL PAL motherboard with the chroma enhancement done to it which I plan to use here in the states on my Sony PVM via s-video, which should be able to do 50Hz (it does Amiga RGB 50Hz fine, at least).

 

So, I plug the 800XL NTSC into the PVM via s-video cable and see a black and white image and wonder why. I leave the set on for half an hour or so while I do other things and I remember that most 800XLs in the states didn't have s-video, and I had checked the BASIC ver and once knew this 800XL does not do it so I was about to grab the 130XE and connect it. At that moment I heard a hummmm come from the PVM and a few minutes later I go to see what was up, and I see not the black and white Atari BASIC prompt but helter skelter garbled video, with the humm. I turn on the Amiga 2000 and switch to RGB in and the image goes solid, switch back to s-video and the video goes haywire. I try the 130XE on the system and it's the same, but with a little color thrown in the garbled mix.

 

Here is a video I just took.

 

 

Is hooking an Atari 8-bit s-video cable going from a pre-s-video A8 to an s-video display sending some damaging voltage down the chroma line? Did I blow part of the board's electronics in the PVM?

 

Any suggestions here? Thanks.

 

 

bp

Edited by blakespot

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Well, the CRT must be ok. It takes a Playstation s-video feed just fine. Hmmm. 130XE NTSC attached now.

 

No v/h hold knobs on this PVM. That's a shock. Got to open it up to adjust those basic pots??

 

 

 

bp

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OH no.

 

I just plugged the 130XE back into its old composite cable on the other CRT here and there is no solid video signal anymore -- I see the TV's blue screen (shown when no solid signal) and it's jittering about. I plugged the 800XL in also and it's the same.

 

What has happened here? Something has killed both of my Atari 8-bits I've been using all week. Was it the PSU? It's not oddly warm. Or was it something about the s-video cable?? This is tragic.

 

Not sure what to do next. I should check voltage out of the PSU to see if it's above 5. It had been working for nearly 2 weeks fine, and here the 800XL died after 30 mins attached to the PVM via the new cable and the 130XE when attached was immediately in the same state it would seem -- instantly killed?

 

I have a 800XL PAL board incoming next week. Obviously won't touch this PSU or that cable to it until I get this sorted.

 

Not a happy Christmas present. Ugh.

 

 

 

bp

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try different cable and different power supply!

 

Rule of thumb is as follows... if something fails, put a meter on all interconnects before touching anything else with the attached items... you have a dead machine... don't make more dead machines using a bad power supply, sio cord, monitor, or monitor cord....

 

test each piece all by themselves and then wen certain each is safe then start linking them up..

Edited by _The Doctor__

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Apparently I have the "dreaded" "Ingot" PSU. And yes, it seems it killed both units in 30 mins. I'd been using it daily for 2 weeks, building up a system, ordering parts, etc. This is painful.

 

Might put the Atari 8-bit adventure to rest, here.

 

If I do go back it, can someone point me to a PSU to use that is safe? Thanks. Ugh.

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Anything else......

 

 

That is really sad....but fixable usually.

 

Mostly RAMs die in the process but sometimes more chips...usually fixable though...

Edited by Level42

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Anything else......

 

 

That is really sad....but fixable usually.

 

Mostly RAMs die in the process but sometimes more chips...

 

Does BEST make a modern safe replacement unit? Guy on YT hacked a USB RPi PSU to work with the A8. Is it safe to grab a non-Ingot, 30 year old PSU and plug that in?

 

Ugh.

 

 

 

bp

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Usually they are fine, and even if they die, they die "peacefully", meaning voltage will go LOWER or no voltage at all, which will make the machine not work but at least it won't be killed.

 

I'm not a fan of using modern PSU's with old school stuff...... modern (USB) PSU's are all switching at a rate of 100000 times per second or more. I still don't see that last just as long as a conventional PSU. And when a switching PSU dies, it could put out lethal voltages as well.

 

So IF you get one of those, get a very good one (Apple f.i..... I also have a Raspberry Pi certified 2A USB one which is really nice. I'd always go with a 2A one for the A8's. They normally draw less than 1A, but heaving a bit of extra for expansions is nice.

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Perhaps I will replace the RAM in the 130XE after sourcing another PSU. I was going to remove he 800XL NTSC and replace it with the 800XL PAL I have incoming (but was going to sell the NTSC board to someone). Should prob socket the chips at the same time. Wonder if any I have lying around on old video cards would work...

 

 

bp

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Guy on YT hacked a USB RPi PSU to work with the A8.

 

That's what I use on mine a 2 amp 5 volt wall wart with a 5 pin din attached

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You can make the Ingot safe to use by simply adding a 7805 voltage regulator the cord. The power supply would connect to input & ground and the DIN connector to output and ground, making sure to keep polarity correct on both ends. Using a small piece of perf board looks better and makes for more secure connections.

 

A telco technician, who was a member of the local Atari users group, did this to a failed Ingot of mine about 30 years ago.

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Speaking of modern power supplies, are these any good or even more dangerous?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ITE-POWER-SUPPLY-MODEL-UP01011050-SG-PART-450006-1/292345440363

 

There are several versions of this with the same model number UP01011050. Some are 2A some are 1.5 some have barrel plugs, some have DIN...

I personally would not use one like that. With power supplies, I want brand products. Even if alone for fire safety (sorry, it's my job).

 

I have this one....I don't use it for A8 but I charge about everything like phone, my (Lipo modded) Lynx, Logitech Bluetooth keyboard etc. etc. with it...it's almost in constant use. The fact that Raspberry Pi allows its logo onitmdoes say something about the quality of the product.

 

https://goo.gl/images/Ept8BW

 

That 7805 isn't a bad idea....but it won't look very nice. A lot of the Atari power supplies have one built in, the Ingot clearly does not.

 

I investigated a number of power supplies and there are generally two types:

-7805 regulated.

-other power regulator chip controlling a Power transistor.

 

My guess is that the 7805 ones were on the edge of supplying enough power. A regular A8'wirhout any mods draws about 800mA. A normal 7805 can supply 1A. Remember there's always a peak in current at power up. Later models 7805 can supply 1.5A and I found one of those in one of them European Atari power supplies.

 

The PSUs that use a different kind of regulator with a Power transistor can supply more current.

 

However, these are, in theory also the dangerous ones because when a transistor dies, it can go into shorting, and thus moving along the full unregulated voltage which is what happens with the Ingot i think.

 

7805 do die too sometimes, but in my 10 years of arcade repairs AFAIR they all died "peacefully" meaning the output voltage simply got lower....and they don't die that often to be honest...

 

IMHO Atari should have put the 7805 and filter caps inside the machines instead of letting the PSU manufacturer decide. On the other hand, that would move heat into the A8 instead of having it in/around the PSU.

 

Everyone has a different opinion on this. My preferred Euro Atari PSU is one that actually uses the power transistor set-up, but it's (German) build quality is the best I have seen. Still that is no guarantee as I heard of one fellow A8 user that he had one doing the same as the Ingot, but in contrast with the Ingot, that one is the exception to the rule, with the Ingot it seems not the question if it will die, but when....

Edited by Level42

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I don't know... If the RAM was blown by the power supply, wouldn't he just get a black screen? I've never seen a blue screen with no sync from a bad power supply...

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I personally would not use one like that. With power supplies, I want brand products. Even if alone for fire safety (sorry, it's my job).

I have this one....

:ponder:

 

 

7805 do die too sometimes, but in my 10 years of arcade repairs AFAIR they all died "peacefully" meaning the output voltage simply got lower....and they don't die that often to be honest...

unless they get exposed to ac, even low voltage ac then they short out and act like a jumper screwing up the clock project I spent a week on ... :P

 

I don't know... If the RAM was blown by the power supply, wouldn't he just get a black screen? I've never seen a blue screen with no sync from a bad power supply...

well ... the ram is not the only thing connected to the 5 volt rail

Edited by Osgeld

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I've spent too much time solder repairing in the past few months (dead iMac screen -- damned SMT microscopic pads, TI-99/4A keyboard cable disintegration, etc.) so I went and eBay'd a decent looking 130XE with "the box" PSU ( top right ) along with a second (separate auction) "the box" PSU for the incoming 800XL PAL that's on order. I've got my 15yo SIO2PC cable going on an old P3 with APE and an SIO2SD arriving any day. So I want to keep rolling while I have some time off (laid off 3 months ago, but new job starting in a week or two). I will work at fixing the dead 130XE at some point soon and decide where to go from there.

 

Thanks folks.

 

(And if anyone has heard to the contrary, that "the box" is also a death brick, please do whisper it in my ear.)

 

 

 

bp

Edited by blakespot
  • Like 1

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If I do go back it, can someone point me to a PSU to use that is safe? Thanks. Ugh.

 

I've made a few 'replacement' power cables for my A8's from the DIN-end cords cut from Ingot's. Just solder the +5 and GND to the right wires on a USB A cord connected to at least a 1.5A USB charger, and it works reasonably well.. I say reasonably, because depending on the usb charger adapter, the Atari will see anywhere from 4.5 to 4.8 volts, and at the lower end it affects the picture colour, and potentially other things depending on what's in your machine. Whats really neat is to see it running off a USB power bank. :)

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You could easily mod a Lipo battery including charging PCB into an A8.....I did it in my Lynx with brilliant results.

 

The Raspberry Pi supply pumps out a bit higher voltage than exactly 5.00 volt because of the very reason you mention about USB chargers....

Edited by Level42

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the one I use came with a radio shack pi starter kit, its actually a nice supply with a beefy cord (the pi one I gave a funny look to earlier is that way as well), which is quite the oppsite of many of them typical USB chargers have like 2000 gauge which is where a voltage drop starts to happen

 

anyway I used it with my pi2 and my pi3 and even though it has like 20 gauge wire and puts out a perfect 5 volts the pi always complains cause its not 5.2 or whatever it thinks it wants (it does the same thing if I use my 10 amp lab supply as well) so I use it on my atari now

Edited by Osgeld
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