Lost Dragon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'd assume Heart of Darkness is a bit too fancy for the Jaguar. Thanks to the internal Atari documentation Scott Stilphen kindly shared, we do know Atari were offered the chance to have this as a Jaguar CD title at 1 point: https://assemblergames.com/threads/heart-of-darkness.31265/page-3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Very interesting read. Atari alienating people left and right and they still wouldn't even consider doing anything different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Thanks to the internal Atari documentation Scott Stilphen kindly shared, we do know Atari were offered the chance to have this as a Jaguar CD title at 1 point: https://assemblergames.com/threads/heart-of-darkness.31265/page-3 Thanks for the fax scans. It was a very entertaining read Heart of Darkness was one of the most expensive games of the era with very significant budget overruns. There's no way that Atari at that time would be remotely able to offer good terms to that developer. Even if they got to second/third tier talks, it would have really quickly become obvious that jaguar is not the platform that makes any sense for them from commercial standpoint. Even in the most crazy jackpot scenario, they wouldn't recoup the port costs, let alone help the bottom line of the insane production costs. As much as I am a fan of Jaguar, jag simply does not deserve a game of this caliber - it is truly a next-gen platformer. I have happily bought this game about 3 times on few platforms. Finished about a dozen times. This game definitely suits Playstation better. Jag is better served with its Bubsian-Raymanesque platformers of the '70s-'80s era - which, "incidentally", correspond to the mentality of the management at Atari... Edited January 27, 2018 by VladR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Playstation had Gex, Rayman, Rainbow Islands, Bubble Bobble, Johny Bazookatone, Hermie Hopperhead etc. All 16 Bit style platform games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks to the internal Atari documentation Scott Stilphen kindly shared, we do know Atari were offered the chance to have this as a Jaguar CD title at 1 point:https://assemblergames.com/threads/heart-of-darkness.31265/page-3 Am I the only one who thought it interesting that had they been able to not pass it up, they could have had an exclusive Bioware game before they were snatched by Interplay? Even more weird is I have not played Heart of Darkness. Loved Another World and Flashback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'm curious as to what makes Rayman 16-bit rather than next gen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Starting to worry me here. All the really high-profile like anticipating games we're getting an no to. Did I read that right did you acquire the Epyx titles? I would have loved Updated temple of apshai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Michael Ancel created Rayman on the Atari ST as a demo for Lankhor,then with Fredric Houde, they decided to develop it for the SNES CD as the ST was rapidly dying at retail.. SNES CD drive never appears, so they look towards new hardware. Jaguar offered impressive 2D, could display a lot of colours on screen, had high capacity cartridges.. Where as PS1 had CD, ideal to store games giant textures and was easy to code for. It's gameplay mechanics are firmly entrenched in it's 16 bit origins.. It lacks the kind of original elements you might expect to find in something designed from the ground up for cutting edge new hardware.. Something like Jumping Flash on Playstation is different, that was clearly developed with the increased 3D power of the 32 bit Playstation in mind from the start..entire game built around the 3D aspect. Or Ape Escape..gameplay built around the dualshock controller.. Rayman is just a gorgeous, but frustrating platformer..raised the bar in 2D visuals, yes..but gameplay very familiar to anyone moving from SNES or MD to the Jaguar. Reworking the art style,making sprites bigger and having far more colours on-screen, don't take the gameplay mechanics kicking and screaming into a new realm.. Johnny Bazookatone tried to disguise it's familiar,16 bit era gameplay, via flashy,rendered sprites, backgrounds and music.. But it too was very 16 bit in nature. Edited January 27, 2018 by Lost Dragon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Starting to worry me here. All the really high-profile like anticipating games we're getting an no to. Did I read that right did you acquire the Epyx titles? I would have loved Updated temple of apshai. System 3 own the rights to Epyx titles and have done for some years. I asked about Impossible Mission 2025 as that was a Microprose title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I'm curious as to what makes Rayman 16-bit rather than next gen? I don't really have much to add to what LostDragon said on the topic, but what was the last time you played HoD ? It was one of the very few jaw-dropping experiences of the time. Actually, I think it was the very last jaw-dropping sprite platformer I ever played. No other platformer on X360, PS3, PS4 ever delivered the WoW factor like HoD did. You can have dozen shaders on a 2-mil poly character in 4k res, but it simply never captures the spirit of a 2D platformer... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) An updated Temple of Apshai on any platform would kick ass. Edited January 28, 2018 by leech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) There is absolutely no shame in a 16 bit era style 2D platformer being done on far more powerful hardware. I lost count of the amount of 3D platform games where your biggest enemy was often the unwieldy camera system, let alone wonky controls, yet because 3D was seen as the future, that's where game went. I'm a little bit surprised that Rayman being so firmly rooted in the 16 bit era of gaming, window dressing aside, needed to be explained. SNES Donkey Kong Country had it's sprites etc rendered on £80,000 Silicon Graphics Workstations, rather than created using traditional methods, but that didn't make it any more than a basic 16 bit platformer either. A lot of games start out with hardware specific features at heart of thier gameplay..Resident Evil 0 a prime example..character swapping element designed around N64 using cartridges,so no loading times, but end up moved to newer platforms, in that case the Game Cube.. Edited January 28, 2018 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I will check out a video of This Heart of Darkness you speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I don't really have much to add to what LostDragon said on the topic, but what was the last time you played HoD ? It was one of the very few jaw-dropping experiences of the time. Actually, I think it was the very last jaw-dropping sprite platformer I ever played. No other platformer on X360, PS3, PS4 ever delivered the WoW factor like HoD did. You can have dozen shaders on a 2-mil poly character in 4k res, but it simply never captures the spirit of a 2D platformer... I put up a good few scans of the UK press coverage here: https://assemblergames.com/threads/heart-of-darkness.31265/page-3 But it was also a front cover title for Edge magazine also, lot of hype for it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I just watched a video review of Heart of Darkness. I remember this game my girlfriend used to play it on her PSX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 It is interesting to read how that virgin interactive guy kind of had a soft spot for the Jaguar. Sorta wanting it to have an exclusive title and encouraging them to do the best they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 That was an aspect that stood out for myself among the documents Scott sent, rather than the usual talk of projects cancelled, milestones not met, payment overdue etc, here was someone actively trying to get Atari interested in what he considered were the next big things coming out if Europe etc and would be ideally suited for the Jaguar and Jaguar CD. The Jaguar library often takes a lot of flak for it's high percentage if Amiga /PC/console ports..things could of been different perhaps, had Atari invested money in securing a few titles pitched to them,as exclusives. The updated Battlezone sounded promisingly, in an alternative world we could of seen that instead of Hoverstike. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 To be fair, I tgink Hoverstrike is one of the great Jag games. It seemex to run smoother on the CD version as well. There some decwnt exclusives for the system, but the straoght 68k ports didn't do it any justice, that is for sure. On the note of Rayman on the ST. Wonder how that would have looked? Probably the best looming platform I had seen on the ST was Fire and Ice. Rayman has huge smsmcharacters in it and looks brilliant. I know there is a game for the Falcon that was started, but never finished that looks a lot like a prototype to Rayman, though the name eludes me at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Ahhh, someone else who gets on OK with the cartridge version of Hoverstike I know the CD version has an improved frame rate, better textures etc, though not a giant leap to point it made myself think about investing in a Jag CD. It's hard to say how an ST Rayman game might of looked.. Limited colours, smaller sprites etc no doubt, but art style changed between SNES and Jaguar,there was talk of extra animators called in, to beef game up just for SNES... Having said that, would of liked to of seen how Chuck Rock II turned out on the ST,if work had ever started... Never been able to find out if it was simply just planned and then abandoned or actually started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I recall reading your search on Chuck Rock 2 for the ST. So many great games were canceled on the ST yet made it to the Amiga. I still see on lists that Pools of Radiance was released for it, though I think everyone has agreed that it never actually came out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Yeah, made a good few attempts to get some sense from Core Design staff, regarding ST Chuck Rock II and UK press claims, Core planned a second Jaguar XJ220 game, but this one built around the polygon engine used in Thunderhawk.. But to no avail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredifredo Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Driver ? Using Club Drive, Hover Strike or VladR engine ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Might just be a UK Press thing..But when reviewed on PS1, C+VG's Paul Davies did not mince words. . Jaguar owners should maybe buy this game. Everyone else forget it-unless you bought a 32-bit machine to play 16-bit games.. Said even then it didn't come close to SNES Yoshi's Island.. Rayman was 70 levels of seen-it-done it... Old ideas dressed in the emperors new clothes. .. Game was big and testing enough but ultimately a jazzed up 16-bit title.. For Jaguar owners only etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Best baseball game I ever played was Super Baseball 2020... man that game is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guSTaw Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 To be fair, I tgink Hoverstrike is one of the great Jag games. It seemex to run smoother on the CD version as well. There some decwnt exclusives for the system, but the straoght 68k ports didn't do it any justice, that is for sure. On the note of Rayman on the ST. Wonder how that would have looked? Probably the best looming platform I had seen on the ST was Fire and Ice. Rayman has huge smsmcharacters in it and looks brilliant. I know there is a game for the Falcon that was started, but never finished that looks a lot like a prototype to Rayman, though the name eludes me at the moment. Willie's Adventures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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