Happy New Year... XM shipping this month

[Zonie]

I have the same board holder. Perhaps you should send me a tester to see if it fits mine...

[CPUWIZ]

I have the same board holder. Perhaps you should send me a tester to see if it fits mine...

 

So do I.

[Lynxpro]

I just received a test board from Curt so we'll have three of us looking at it as we work thru the issues. Here's a few pics.

 

xm1.jpg

xm2.jpg

 

Tep, is that 7800 of yours stock or do you have mods on it?

[tep392]

This one had an Xboard in it but I pulled it so I could test the XM. So now completely stock.

[NightSprinter]

Another one on the bench being assembled...

 

xm353-onbench.jpg

 

We have Milo, but where's Otis at?

 

..I'm going to sit in a corner for even referencing that movie..

[Andromeda Stardust]

All I'm seeing is Milo. Where's Otis?

We have Milo, but where's Otis at?

 

..I'm going to sit in a corner for even referencing that movie..

Beat you.

 

Funny you bring that up now. Last month we recently adopted an orange tabby cat, aptly named Milo. Milo was to be a companion to Chris who recently lost his 10 year old sister Holly to cancer. They were littermates. So far, they've gotten along great. A couple weeks ago, I picked up a DVD copy of Milo and Otis at Big Lots. Ladt weekend, I watched it for the first time in 20 years. My fiance also saw it for the first time.

 

Just please don't go looking up the deleted scenes on Youtube.

There was some disturbing footage cut from the Japanese release. Childhood ruined.

 

[The Usotsuki]

IIRC, its original title is Koneko Monogatari (A Kitten's Tale)

[Shawn]

I just received a test board from Curt so we'll have three of us looking at it as we work thru the issues. Here's a few pics.

 

xm1.jpg

xm2.jpg

 

Have you tried populating and testing any of the other major components on it as of yet? I'm curious which ones are working as expected and\or if any are not. Like the pokey, PIA, both RAM chips, the Yamaha chip or the other unpopulated IC's on the board. It's neat to see it working but the board is still pretty much naked compared to what it's supposed to be and I'm itching to know whats up

[rocketmonkey101]

Looking fwd to general release! Can't wait to see what kind of software ends up being made for this!

[Tidus79001]

Looking fwd to general release! Can't wait to see what kind of software ends up being made for this!

I am hoping that the 7800 XM will spur a whole new era of homebrew development for the Atari 7800 as console had so much unrealized, but such an unfortunate life cycle, and little love during its time in active development due to Atari's financial situation, and Nintendo's monopolistic practices that were so prevalent during the 8-bit era. Out of all the Atari consoles the 7800 really got a raw deal, and it would be nice to see the it get the proper treatment that Atari was never able to give to it.

[rocketmonkey101]

I am hoping that the 7800 XM will spur a whole new era of homebrew development for the Atari 7800 as console had so much unrealized, but such an unfortunate life cycle, and little love during its time in active development due to Atari's financial situation, and Nintendo's monopolistic practices that were so prevalent during the 8-bit era. Out of all the Atari consoles the 7800 really got a raw deal, and it would be nice to see the it get the proper treatment that Atari was never able to give to it.

I'm curious if 8bit (xl/xe) software that already exists can be ported over in an easy fashion or if everything for this will have to be written from scratch. It could be cool to have access to that software with out having to re-invent the wheel. That being said, I'm looking fwd to the possibility of getting online with the 7800 for BBS and oddly, word processing on it too. We'll see where it all goes, a new world awaits.

[tep392]

Have you tried populating and testing any of the other major components on it as of yet? I'm curious which ones are working as expected and\or if any are not. Like the pokey, PIA, both RAM chips, the Yamaha chip or the other unpopulated IC's on the board. It's neat to see it working but the board is still pretty much naked compared to what it's supposed to be and I'm itching to know whats up

Not yet. I'm itching to test the audio out. Curt is going to send me the hardware thats missing but I think he's waiting on a part that will hopefully address the glitches we are seeing. I'm also moving in a couple weeks so can't do much until I'm moved in and unpacked.

[Shinju]

Awesome updates, excited to see this continuing!

[Shawn]

News?

[phoenixdownita]

Guys. communication is the key.

You can say "no change, we're still figuring out what doesn't work"

or you can say "we give up, we can't figure out wtf is going on"

 

Any news is better than radio silence, everyone here has broad shoulder at this point, so you can lay it on them as it is, even if it is just to say "I've got nothing for you".

[Shawn]

Guys. communication is the key.

You can say "no change, we're still figuring out what doesn't work"

or you can say "we give up, we can't figure out wtf is going on"

 

Any news is better than radio silence, everyone here has broad shoulder at this point, so you can lay it on them as it is, even if it is just to say "I've got nothing for you".

 

I agree. It's been a full 6 months since it was supposed to be in the closing stages and getting ready to be finalized for shipment to the buyers. We should at least get to know something more. I really want this thing to be completed and in my hands. I'm not being a jerk here either, not in any way, shape or form. I really do think it's time to let us know definitively and without a doubt how much longer before this thing is completed and will be shipped out to us. Over the last couple months it's been little to no progress reported and that isn't very good news or very nice to those impatiently patient to know what and when is going on with the XM. That is about the kindest way I can put it and I hope my concerns and questions will be kindly addressed as well. There are many with the exact same questions and concerns that is for sure.

 

 

It's now August 1st and we where all told on January 3rd it was gonna ship within a month. It's now been half a year since that deadline passed.

[tep392]

I just moved a week ago, so I've had no time for hobbies since my last update on July 4th. I haven't reached out to Curt either to see what is happening with him. I still have a mountain of boxes to unpack so it's not likely I'll even be able to look at my Atari stuff for another couple weeks. Sorry I don't have better news.

[HammR25]

First post says he was going to do 6 the first month for testing and then once they were satisfied they'd ramp up production to maybe 20 per month with Curt doing lots of hand soldering. If they sold 200 that would still take almost 10 months to get them all out. I mean damn, Perry moved two weeks ago but, he's already supposed to have another update on this thing like he's getting paid for it.

 

 

edit: lol, looks like Perry posted something while I was working on a post.

[Shawn]

First post says he was going to do 6 the first month for testing and then once they were satisfied they'd ramp up production to maybe 20 per month with Curt doing lots of hand soldering. If they sold 200 that would still take almost 10 months to get them all out. I mean damn, Perry moved two weeks ago but, he's already supposed to have another update on this thing like he's getting paid for it.

 

 

edit: lol, looks like Perry posted something while I was working on a post.

 

The ones by hand would take some time for sure. You can however get most of the components added to the pcb's right at the factory at a cost that is the same as it would be to just buy the parts let alone install them on the board. Sometimes even cheaper than you could actually buy the caps, resistors and logic chips. I'm not saying this is going to be the case with the XM but I'm just saying it's a very smart option. Cuts man hours and labouring efforts to produce by invaluable measures. I have a friend who does this with the pcb's he gets made. If all the logic had to be soldered by hand they wouldn't be viable to sell to others and that is why I'm such an advocate for going that route. Dollars (and time involved) make total sense in such a situation.

[Trebor]

From some comments, it would almost seem as if hardly anything has been stated or done since the beginning of the year. Just finalizing shipments, (near) radio silence, and we are in the dark not knowing what is going on.

Curt's posts alone have entailed ~*30* updates and status reports since January 3, including videos and finer details:

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Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 9:00 PM

The main order of this run of boards is in, as soon as they arrive I will post photos, its 5 days to manufacture and I have 2nd day shipping, so figure next tuesday PM I will post photo's.

Just got a brandy new soldering station and some new tools, so I'm ramping up for assembly.
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Posted Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:05 PM

Update:

So boards are on their way from PCB manufacturer, hoping they may be here on Friday, as soon as they arrive I'll post photos. Just ordered a batch of the 1508 CPLD's and I have a backorder on the 36 pin edge connectors (which I cut off the 4 legs to make them 32 to fit in the 7800 slot) the ones with the longer tails which are needed for the correct height to match the cartridge guide are not in stock from Mouser or any of the other suppliers, but I have 8 in my office, so doing these first 6 wont be an issue and I'll have the next batch of 50 in for building out the next batch of
XMs next month.
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Posted Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:18 PM

The plastics I did from the original drawings from Tom Palecki of an early CPU add-on module design for the 7800 in spring of 84' before Atari canned that approach and went with the lower cost keyboard only through the joystick approach.

Ever since I did the High Score carts back in 99' I always wanted a way for a pass through plug in so originally the XM idea was to do that case with the high score and I was going to just add Pokey, well then it grew to adding memory, then more advanced memory, then adding in a footprint for a PIA and adding in basic Keyboard usage with the XEGS keyboards, then the Yamaha processor was added, a bus divider, onboard BIOS with flash upgradability... it kept growing.

Tooling was very expensive, between the tooling, running off 500 sets of plastics and having the custom aluminum name plates made it was $18K in total, the 180 orders just covered that, everything else is coming out of pocket do to bad math on my part. Any new orders will have to be at $149 to cover all of the costs...

I wanted this to look and feel like as if Atari had made these themselves in the 1984 era, so I went top shelf with the case and nameplates.
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Posted Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:35 PM

Not much to look at but these are the Bus Bridge boards for this months builds..
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Posted Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:23 PM

CPLDs have arrived
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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:49 PM

Boards have arrived!
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Posted Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:52 PM

Received a little disappointing news from Mouser on the 36 pin edge connectors with the longer tails needed for the cartridge interfaces. They are back ordered until April 6th. I have enough for this first batch I'm doing now and may 2-3 more in the office, but I'll have to see if I can get them from another supplier for the other batches, I'm not deterred, I'll find them...
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Posted Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:59 PM

Another quick update, okay so the 84Pin PLCC sockets for the CPLD's have been ordered, also ordered were the 3 Pin Voltage resets for CPLD and the 3.58 Resonators for the Yamaha audio chip...

So once these are in I have all needed parts to complete the assembly of this first batch... Will be soldering this weekend components I already have in stock and get what I can completed while waiting for the rest, will post photos of the WIP board assemblies to show how they are coming...
---------------------------------
Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:04 PM

Parts have arrived...

Tonight - let the soldering begin!!! :-)
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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:24 AM

First stage is getting all of the caps and the reset to the PLD socket done, those are complete. USB connector for power (ONLY) installed to give board power with JTAG connector plugged in. Done... So now I'll burn the PLD and then install the 245 and its cap, the burn the PLCC for the BIOS and install it and its cap and lastly finish the power up reset circuit by the 123 and then the unit is ready for stage one testing with a 2600 then 7800 cart installed. If all good, time to install the Dallas nVRAM and cap and see if the high score works, the the SRAM and keep moving from there until all testing from the BIOS testing selections (when no cartridge is installed the BIOS menu comes up with settings and system function tests)

So thats it for now, gotta finish up work for work (to pay the biils and will continue tomorrow...
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Posted Thu Feb 8, 2018 5:15 PM

Sorry for delay in posting, Mouser didn’t have the 245’s I needed (I only had LS’s and I needed HCT’s) and Jamesco took forever shipping to me.

Now don’t get raging nerd hardons over the USB plug, it’s not what you think.

USB is supplying power only (data lines aren’t even going anywhere from the plug) this is for programming the PLD in its socket and not having to spend $250 to buy an ATF programming rig.

So plugged it in, all powered up, everything is getting 5v so power up test has passed, next is to hook up the JTAG and program the PLD and flash the BIOS and boot it up...
------------------------------
Posted Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:06 PM

Okay, so much for being clever...

The in-board programming setup I incorporated into the board is not stable for some reason, the connection from the Atmel ISP software to the board craps out often during just doing blank checks and erase chain commands so I just ordered a ATF15XXDK3-SAJ84-N adapter for my ATF15xx-DK3 dev kit and will program the CPLD's that way it seems... crapping thing is its gotta come from Thailand, nobody in the US has one in stock so won't be here till Feb 27 :-(

Gonna keep trying a few things and just see if I can get around the issue while I'm waiting for the adapter to arrive, sorry for the delay guys, if anything changes before the 27th I will definitely post, hopefully with good news and some boot up screen shots...
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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:20 AM

Okay so I decided to build out another board with just PLCC socket, the caps, USB and JTAG connectors and tried again... no dice.

Okay so maybe my Parallel port is misconfigured so I double checked, all standard port & IRQ assignments, set to ECP/EPP so that's correct...

Tried on a 2nd computer.... fresh install of the S/W.... no dice, craps out midway every time.

So it is very possible that the ISP cable is dying or just about dead, so I just ordered a newer USB JTAG cable from Mouser 2nd UPS so let see if that resolves the issue short term and the ISP adapter rig will still be coming from MicroChip anyway so I'll have that to fall back on.
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Posted Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:42 PM

YEah, me and Mr. "A" already discussed... his programmer doesn't handle this chip.

Its okay I'll have the new USB JTAG programming cable on the 15th and can resume things. Mark doublechecked things on his end as well so things will get rolling again Thurs PM.
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Posted Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:12 PM

Great News!!!

Got the ISP cable working, ran two tests - one to do a Blank check: Passed. Second to do an Erase: Passed.

So then I copied the latest JED file on the programming computer and loaded it up into the Chain and ran a Program and Verify: Passed !!!

So I have to do a few things non-XM related and tonight when I get back I will burn the latest BIOS chip that Mark created (Mark's Magic BIOS) and plug it into the PLCC socket and lets see if it'll boot.

I have video's on my phone of the programming sequence but they are too big to move over from my phone to computer so I posted them up onto the 7800 Expansion Module group on FB and I'll see if I can move them over to post here as well so I can keep everyone up to date.

Hoping to post Boot up video shortly.
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Posted Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:23 PM

Here are the videos
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Posted Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:40 PM

Okay... BIOS flashed to the 29f010... boot up time... Well, almost :-)

[Another video posted]
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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:15 PM

Trying to work with Mark and Perry to resolve this issue and get things to a boot screen of the BIOS...

I was missing the pull up resistor on the test line, added the 47k resistor to it tonight and burned the latest BIOS... unfortunately still no change, going to go back and again recheck all of the traces against the schematics and see if something was missed...
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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:58 PM

So going back and forth with Mark on the XM BIOS boot issue, he recommended jumping the TEST jumper and disabling the XM BIOS and straight booting up cartridges. So I did both a test of sensing 2600 carts and 7800 carts, both loaded. One step closer.
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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:47 PM

Well.... more progress.

Pulled the XM BIOS out, went back and tried all of the games that didn't work, plus a few others that I hadn't tried.

Games now working:

BallBlazer
Hat Trick
MotoPsycho
F14 Tomcat
F18
Pac Man plus
Pac Man Collection
Super Pac man
Space Invaders
Berzerk Voice Enhanced
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Vanguard
Spy Hunter

So this is a good sign, plus the fact I cross checked all of the pin assignments from the PLCC, Schematic and ran a trace on the board traces...

Did find 3 pin assignments one the PLCC socket layout that were mismatched, but the board and schematic are both correct, so possible PLD pin out issue which is an easy fix...

also noticed a possible issue with the BIOS CE# and OE# lines and this may be why pulling the BIOS allowed a lot of games that didn't run to now run.

Perry, Mark and I exchanged a lot back and forth tonight so we'll keep at it tomorrow and hopefully the progress will just continue until we have the BIOS up and running and then its time to populate the HSC and SRAM and run the internal tests from the BIOS to see how things are working.... then POKEY & Audio tie in (When I tested Ball Blazer, of course if had no audio since the audio pass thru circuits aren't populated yet.)

Then the Keyboard and finally.... the dreaded Yamaha Insanity Zone! :-)
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Posted Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:47 AM

Thought that there mightve been a reversal of the Data lines running through the Bus divider next to the PLD, but turns out the pin labeling was reversed and the actual data lines pass through fine. Found a small issue on the PLD reset circuit and corrected it tonight and Mark, Perry and I have been furiously exchanging emails on every area trying to figure out the mystery as to why the Cartridges are all loading fine but the BIOS goes through the checksum check and then crashes... so just wanted to keep everyone in the loop...
---------------------------------
Posted Thu Mar 1, 2018 6:49 PM

While still looking to find why the BIOS isn't loading I've done some more compatibility testing to see if the issues from the Rev 2 have been solved in the Rev 3 XM's...

Mountain King (CBS RamPlus) is now working
Berzerk Voice Enhanced is now working

Going to test SARA chip games like Defender II/Stargate and Jr Pac Man as those never worked on the Rev 2. Will also be doing some other testing of games this weekend as well while continuing to look for the reason why the BIOS isn't booting after the CRC check screen.
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Posted Sun Mar 4, 2018 11:43 AM

Tep is correct. We've tried several BIOS types and just loading a game from the onboard flash, seems like a bank issue (possibly) and the Rev 2 was tested extensively on both NTSC and PAL systems. Rev 3 is a much different beast though...
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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 12:24 AM

Hi everyone, sorry been a slow week, these back to back monster snow storms and just a few other things have eaten up my time. I just got in a brand new electronics bench from Global Industries so I'm putting it together and moving everything over to it to have the proper room and place for my tools and equipment. I am trying another BIOS Perry sent me just to keep trying from some different angles. I've got a test board heading out to him and Mark Friday so we've all got hardware in hand and can't hopefully just get this snag fixed so we've got the BIOS up and have eyes and ears on the board to start populating the other area's and then use the BIOS' built in testing functions to make sure everything is working correctly.

So sorry nothing new to report so far this week, but just posting to keep the communications flowing.
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Posted Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:49 AM

Hi everyone.... just wanted to give an update: Hardware went off to Mark in the UK, another one to Perry was also shipped out and I have something coming back my way that is basically a plugs out exerciser of the entire XM board to try and resolve the remaining roadblocks.

Found a few more minor errors and just built out a new electronics bench to make my work a lot easier. So I've been adding needed cut & straps to the design and updating the PCB design files. I have been running additional testing of games, so far everything is running but I still haven't tested SARA equipped games yet so I have that on the to-do list. I have a list of POKEY embedded games that will need to be tested as well to make sure the XM's handle them properly.

I don't have an Xboard but when the time comes I will see about either obtaining one or if Mitch or someone else has one installed I would like to see how they get another with one another. The cartridge connectors will be arriving from Mouser in the next 2 weeks as well, then its just a matter of nipping off the 4 extra leads from them. (they are standard 36 pin edge connectors that meet the same specs as the 32 pin Atari versions with the same 8mm tails on them for the needed height for the cartridge connectors.

So I just wanted to just post that things are still in progress and I didn't want to leave everyone in the dark for too long and repeat the mistakes from the past.
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Posted Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:01 AM

okay, some rather surprisingly good news. I spent some extra $ and shipped out an XM board to Mark using Global Express and it actually arrived much faster than expected. So its going to be hooked up a hefty logic analyzer through the XMRAM pins which map (with the exception of the CS lines) more or less the same as the BIOS so this will give a good view of what is going on and hopefully get some answers to why we've been stuck with the BIOS not completing its loading.

I am hopeful its just something stupid in my board layout or maybe something else that was just overlooked, it can be quickly rectified and we can just get back on track and move forward.... as soon as more news comes I'll post right up to everyone.
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Posted Sun May 20, 2018 8:39 PM

That was actually why I came on now. Yeah, we've been stalled for quite some time, roadblocked on this BIOS situation and Mark has become very busy so he doesn't have time to assist right now, Perry and I are going to pursue things further and see what we can find.
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Posted Mon Jun 4, 2018 11:09 PM

Surprisingly good news today...

While doing some testing of one of the XM test boards, I was able to successful get it to boot up from the BIOS chip onboard: I had several pre-flashed BIOS chips, one has Mark's Worms game on it which booted first, then another with a repeated image of Centipede in the 128K which also booted... I had another with an older rev of the XMBIOS on it and it did boot but then stopped, so I need to re-flash a fresh BIOS chip with the latest Rev of the BIOS: 1.32f - it will be a few days, I damaged my PLCC32 adapter for my programmer and I have another on its way in.

So this is some VERY positive news, because now we can get the BIOS booting up and move to test the High Score and POKEY next.

Also - a HUGE thank you to an old friend: Michael St. Pierre who kindly sent me his VERY cool XEGS to PC keyboard interface which I am looking VERY forward to trying out on the XM once I finish with the HSC and POKEY testing. I recommend to EVERYONE who is on the Pre-order list and those who will order when the XM is available in the AtariAge store - this is a MUST buy item which will make using the keyboard function on the XM a world better, of course - the caveat is, some still needs to write a game (or Application - like a Wordprocessor or Text adventure or Star Raiders) to the XM to really make full use the keyboard interface.

Will check back in a few days with another update.
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Posted Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:53 PM

Another one on the bench being assembled...
--------------------------------

For the TL;DR spoiler crowd...back in January, XM modules were in the closing stages and items regarding shipments, finalized.

What happened?

First couple of months - Unexpected parts and supply problems.
Second couple of months - Unexpected issues crept up (again) during assembly and testing, in which efforts are made to resolve.
Last few months - Some progress made, but the additional support people Curt leveraged have been very busy with real life issues.

Over a half year has passed. However, we are hardly in the dark or ignorant as to what has transpired since.

[Shawn]

For the TL;DR spoiler crowd...back in January, XM modules were in the closing stages and items regarding shipments, finalized.

 

What happened?

 

First couple of months - Unexpected parts and supply problems.

Second couple of months - Unexpected issues crept up (again) during assembly and testing, in which efforts are made to resolve.

Last few months - Some progress made, but the additional support people Curt leveraged have been very busy with real life issues.

 

Over a half year has passed. However, we are hardly in the dark or ignorant as to what has transpired since.

 

I just feel there has been next to nothing reported as far as progress towards the end goal being achieved over the last while. Exact details are sparse to nil. I'm just wondering what has been worked on over the last few months and what progress that has made to closing in on actual project completion. I'm very confused how things could still be so with so much time passing in the meanwhile. There has to be exact things wrong with the project that are keeping it from being completed. It would be nice to know what that is and what the ETA on fixing such issues are. I don't think that's asking very much at all.

 

EDIT: I want to add that I still have a very positive outlook on the XM. I'm just looking for concrete details. No negative intent here.

[Dauber]

Okay, this message is not to ask about the status of the XM, or to complain, or anything else like that...but try this on for size:

 

I mentioned several times that my proof of purchase disappeared over the course of hard drives and such.

 

Well...as luck would have it, the SSD on my iMac blew. Just to make sure it was indeed the SSD, I popped in an older drive to see if the iMac would boot, just to make sure it wasn't a connector cable or something else. It booted. To a pretty old drive with old stuff on it.

 

So I open up the Mail app and search for "syzygy." LO AND BEHOLD...there's the e-mail confirmation!!

 

Now to see if I can find the tracking number too. (seriously: the next day I got a tracking number. In May 2013.)

[LoTonah]

Okay, this message is not to ask about the status of the XM, or to complain, or anything else like that...but try this on for size:

 

I mentioned several times that my proof of purchase disappeared over the course of hard drives and such.

 

Well...as luck would have it, the SSD on my iMac blew. Just to make sure it was indeed the SSD, I popped in an older drive to see if the iMac would boot, just to make sure it wasn't a connector cable or something else. It booted. To a pretty old drive with old stuff on it.

 

So I open up the Mail app and search for "syzygy." LO AND BEHOLD...there's the e-mail confirmation!!

 

Now to see if I can find the tracking number too. (seriously: the next day I got a tracking number. In May 2013.)

 

Yeah, I got a tracking number from Syzygy back in the day (for a joystick PCB that was never shipped). Thought it was pretty odd that there was a number. I don't believe it said which courier that tracking number was for, so maybe it was just an internal number. Curt eventually came through for me so I'm not really bitching, just thought the whole thing was odd.

[Dauber]

Ooh....actually, I didn't get a tracking number after all -- just a shipping notification.

[Swami]

Since the pre-order confirmation website isn't going up any time soon, who should I contact and how to get the notification email and shipping address changed from the original buyer to me, who bought it from him, in case it is long, long time?