ebay returns

[Tanooki]

Ice is on a roll and I'm enjoying it and Mitkraft is right too -- if someone feels you should go that far to post something on ebay and you feel entitled to cry about a refund in a scenario just like this I think we do need a list of those names to block them on ebay.

 

eBay makes it a pain to list anymore and have made it worse and worse chipping away at it for a good decade now. They make these generic spaces and then the right rat can come back and use that as a weapon someone who innocently lists an item not expecting some OCD prick to get angry about a spot of ink, a hairline fold, a dogeared page #54 of a 800 page book and so on. No dude, screw you, it didn't say mint nor new, it says used. It was used, and if it was used as the manual (in this case) was intended for use, including filling in the rear notes, codes, or passwords lines/boxes then it wasn't abused or misrepresented. I would expect if someone ripped a page, colored in some black teeth on a smiling face in the manual, or other acts of boredom or destruction to be listed as that's fair enough.

 

Like Ice I won't let some ass steamroll me on ebay. It has been rarely attempted thankfully but thanks to a 20 year plus account history without any marks against me on it, I have still a little leverage with escalation to stateside people with a brain and not on screen queue card reading faux sympathy paid idiots. I'll always be nice at first, but if someone tries to extort me for their personal issues out of paying to return an item I didn't misrepresent, or they dare claim I sent something damaged in a way the USPS couldn't have caused it, I'll make things very uncomfortable and go through the phone and minimally possible on the site itself. If I do foul up or it looks like they may get away with dickery I will not refund a piece, I just have them send it back at their cost unless it's truly my error, then I will make it right.

 

And that isn't a bad idea either, screw people and their ungrateful shameful ebay behavior about extra things that don't add but a few dollars at best value to an auction ...maybe. Toss them in a spare box, let it fill to a point, and then dump the crap for other resellers who love to be masochists to ebay OCD'rs while you get some coin for it more than the listing would have given away for free. Obviously if something adds value, take a few really good images and secure that paper well and back it with something sturdy and hope for the best.

[Osgeld]

eBay makes it a pain to list anymore and have made it worse and worse chipping away at it for a good decade now.

 

 

wtf are you posting on, I took 4 pictures on my phone clicked 3 icons and sold a ADB keyboard and mouse within 2 hours

 

I think you asshats go out of your way to over describe crap just to be screwed, tested working, look at photos boom done, been selling on bay for like 10 years now and the worst issue I have had was when UPS smashed a box ... and they paid for it (and THAT was 2 months ago)

Edited January 6, 2018 by Osgeld

[Tanooki]

Hardly. I don't write much at all and mostly copy and paste a bit I saved and tweak it as needed. Good for you selling something. This was about taking advantage of sellers and how it is set up easily to do that. For all you know shortly you'll have frozen funds and a bs claim over a twitchy mouse or a stuck key. Odds are no but it does happen.

[gliptitude]

wtf are you posting on, I took 4 pictures on my phone clicked 3 icons and sold a ADB keyboard and mouse within 2 hours

 

I think you asshats go out of your way to over describe crap just to be screwed, tested working, look at photos boom done, been selling on bay for like 10 years now and the worst issue I have had was when UPS smashed a box ... and they paid for it (and THAT was 2 months ago)

 

Are you aware of the subject of this thread? Did you read the original post and view the item we are discussing? This thread isn't about every single transaction on eBay. It is about this actual transaction that happened and that does not fit your boneheaded description at all. The item we are talking about was under-described, not over-described. Boom?

[Osgeld]

Yes I read this pitiful thread of complaining that a used item was used, but.I was replying to a specific post hince the quote of that post

[gliptitude]

Yes he was explaining how eBay makes it is possible for an overly entitled customer to lord it over a seller, and that this has been a progressive development. That has been my observation too and it is impossible for me not to attribute the experience I am having with this customer in part to a systemic problem in that community. It is not an isolated incident and the way it is set up ENCOURAGES the domineering OCD tendencies of consumers who are prone to that sort of behaviour.

 

I didn't put four antique video games together in a single photo and sell them for half their value expecting that someone wanted to put them in a fuc!<ing museum. It is a commercial transaction. It is a remote and relatively insignificant commercial transaction. It was a commercial transaction that was made CASUALLY by the buyer and with no prior inquiry at all from that person. THAT IS NOT HOW YOU ATTAIN MINT CONDITION ITEMS, unless you are lucky or.. unless you manipulate the fuc!< out of strangers on eBay.

 

YES I'M THE SELLER!

 

This item shipped like a week ago, while the buyer was on vacation apparently. Now my money is on hold. I am being asked to accept a return, PAY to have the items shipped back to me, and give the "buyer" all of his money back. I didn't charge him for shipping in the first place so that is my expense also. THE RISK IS ENTIRELY ON THE SELLER. Ebay is a risk for sellers. EBay isn't a risk for buyers and eBay isn't a risk for eBay. But THE SELLERS ARE THE EBAY CUSTOMERS. They collect their commission from me. Paypal collects their commission from me. I buy the postage from them.

 

When a buyer requests a return the seller is discouraged from refusing. There is a multiple choice array to choose from: refund the buyer, offer partial refund, offer another item, send the buyer a message.. There is no option to decline the buyer's request. It is a coercive system bent on making the takers happy no matter what, like internet pornography, which I guess is what I'm competing with.

[HoshiChiri]

Try calling up Ebay & talking to a real person. While I've never had to do it as a seller, I have had surprisingly decent service from them in the past. At the very least you should try and get them to foot the bill for return shipping, so you're only out time & frustration.

[icemanxp300]

Come on Osgeld you know nobody was talking about the fact that eBay has made it easier to create a listing over the past 20 years. Of course they have. The picture uploader is better, they have saved templates, listings partially save if you exit on accident or by site freezing (which that happens less now too), more item descriptions and so on.

 

However some items descriptions are not 100% accurate and as such at times I will not use a pre-loaded item at all if there is ANYTHING wrong because I'm not opening that up for a claim.

 

The whole argument is buyers have every way possible to screw over sellers and sellers can't do anything about it. It is basically impossible to win an item not as described case. Especially on video games. All a buyer has to say is (***) doesn't work and boom instant refund. It is buyers word vs. sellers word and buyers word is all that matters.

 

EBay is sooo bad that I flat out refuse to ship anywhere but US and Canada and honestly Canada is hanging on a thread. All it will take is one asshole from Canada to screw me and sales will be cut-off. International shipping cost to much to deal with returns and scammers.

 

However lets just skip eBay and go right to the partner forced payment method PayPal. PayPal is essentially worse than eBay as regardless if eBay denies the claim all a scummy buyer has to do is send item back and show PayPal the tracking and PayPal will rip the funds right from your account. They will tell you that you can just resell the item.

 

I have had people return me different games that they purchased for a full refund. I video tape myself opening the packages just in case but you still have to argue with PayPal for 30 minutes for a refund and the buyer still gets to keep the game and they get a full refund. The only time I got PayPal to even consider going after a buyer who was scamming me was after I got my refund from PayPal and told the PayPal rep. I didn't care what they did now as he was no longer scamming me he was scamming them lol. Then all of the sudden he wanted the upload link to the video I took opening the package.

[Tanooki]

Just take it as osgeld being osgeld which is why I wrote that and left it there at that.

 

glip is right as is ice, it's gamed mostly into the favor of the buyer. At a face value if someone isn't wise enough to start really digging into it by making a call or multiple calls/transfers through departments at ebay to get a stateside American rep, odds are you're screwed. I've successfully or at worst neutrally swatted away anyone trying to take advantage of me. I can accurately say my problems did not arise until they removed the ability for a seller to say 'no return' as a choice and the final nail in the coffin was removing the ability to leave negative feedback.

 

I've had an increasing amount of scum playing the partial discount scam, but mostly it was a refund/return at my cost, or even one ass wanted the 'broken' item and the money! That was the latest one. Each time I've done the ebay steps it ends up in a draw or a loss via the system. I waste anywhere from (per call) 30min to an hour of my time, and often it's 1-3 calls. Usually it's cheap ($10-20) stuff too. I end up getting the script reading fake sympathy person from overseas and I'm nice, but when they start going in circles I firmly ask for a supervisor or a transfer to a local office as I want to escalate the problem. There I end up having a discussion with an American, and in the end what has happened to date is that either something is mailed back, but ebay comps the sticker and doesn't count in my score plus I keep the money quietly, or they just reverse the dumb script of theirs and I end up winning. They know they lost, or they don't, but in either case feedback is smudged so they can't leave a negative.

 

I hate having to do it, but it's the principle over the matter not to be taken advantage of.

 

All I can do now is that, and then take extra images of stuff and NOT post them. When someone plays some crap scam and I know it, I'll then let them know they can feel free to proceed, but be aware I have more pictures. I've taken distinct images of spots on a disc, cartridge (board etc) or something they won't be able to duplicate. I had someone try that on a spotless mint copy of a Wii game over $9 I was the only owner of saying it was scratched, that stopped it, but the fact I have to do this is asinine.

[batboard]

Didnt get the answers you wanted on nintendoage did ya.....

[Atari_Bill]

Used should be assumed to have any imperfections such as this. As a seller I doubt I'd mention it if I listed as used. As a buyer, you should expect it. I've received a number of manuals like this with no mention in the listing and I never had any issues with it.

[gliptitude]

I honestly didn't know about the writing when I listed these games. But had I known I'm not sure I would have mentioned it. In retrospect obviously knowing now about the outcome I would have. But to me this is just a lot of loose and incomplete items, and I priced them that way. When a seller provides only ONE single photo of four items, (or as my buyer seems to count it, EIGHT individual items), isn't it reasonable to assume that the condition of these items is unexceptional?

 

In my opinion these carts and manuals are in FANTASTIC condition and I am amazed that something like this can be bought and sold so easily, 35 years later. As clean and unblemished as these manuals are on the outside, I think it is actually pretty amazing to find high scores written on the inside. And yes I am one who thinks it is really cool to find these. .. But I've learned from dealing with collectors not to make bold claims or try to be too competitive when it comes to condition, rarity, authenticity or completeness. It is a whole bizarre psychological thing I don't want to deal with or even witness honestly. I accept that it exists and that there is some obscure and remote purpose for it, and that vintage items are worth that much more to some people based on these metrics. BUT PERFECTION IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. When people start leveraging these variables to the point of nickles and dimes it is no longer a civil relationship. If something in reasonably good condition is "worthless" to you and you expect a stranger to spend time and money shipping things to you and taking their products off the market and absorbing all of the risk, then YOU need to be more discriminating in who you do business with and how you make transactions AND YOU PROBABLY NEED TO SPEND MORE MONEY.

 

.. What really psychs me out is that somebody DID specifically ask me about writing in the manuals. I checked and discovered the high scores and replied to that person with that information. Then the next day suddenly I had my first offer on that item. .. I assumed it was the same person but I didn't realize it wasn't until a week and a half later when the buyer got home from vacation and opened his package. To me it seems like an extraordinary set of circumstances and I wonder if it's even real or if I've actually gone insane.

 

Didnt get the answers you wanted on nintendoage did ya.....

Huh? If you are referring to me I use the same screen name on nintendoage and haven't been there in months. I think I even have the same avatar there.

[gliptitude]

I can accurately say my problems did not arise until they removed the ability for a seller to say 'no return' as a choice and the final nail in the coffin was removing the ability to leave negative feedback.

Hmm. Most of my eBay selling experience is recent and all of my sales have been designated "no returns". It was an option and I chose it. But I learned more clearly how it works when I had a previous return requested. That one too tested my sanity because the item I sold was practically new. In fact based on his complaint and based on my own subsequent verification after I got the item back, I don't think this cartridge had ever been inserted into a console before! (I hadn't known for sure bc I had two identical copies I had originally bought from the homebrew manufacturer, and I didn't specifically test this one for sale or claim to have tested it or consider it necessary). But among the scores of games I've sold, all used, the ONLY one to not work is T H E -O-N-L-Y- new one?!?!?

 

.. So in fact that buyer was properly entitled to a return/refund, eventhough I designated no returns. And although I was hopping mad and in complete disbelief, I can no longer reasonably deny that it is the case.

 

At any rate I observed that buyer's confidence in demanding a return on a no-return listing, and eBay's coercive and intimidating method of enforcing it, to the point where you really have to be a pretty hardened skeptic for it to even occur to you that you have a choice in the matter. And even then it is really not at all reasonable to pursue this option, at least not from a business standpoint.

 

But even in this case, I don't see why I should pay return shipping. And I think I've noticed that some sellers who do accept returns specify that the buyer pays return shipping. I think I may have also noticed that some of these sellers designate other terms for returns, so you can't just return it for any reason.

 

So if all of that is the case and if there really isn't such a thing as "no returns", I might as well accept returns under my own terms and state those terms in my listings. .. Perhaps buyers like johli64 don't even mess with sellers who are better fortified like this and maybe he wouldn't be requesting a return if he was going to have to pay. And then I wouldn't really have anything to argue about or wonder about or be vague about, I can completely eliminate his possible motive to scam me by accepting returns at his expense and refusing outright any refunds without a return.

 

If I charge for shipping can I also designate shipping charges as non-refundable?

[icemanxp300]

I always tell buyers return it for a full refund and if the item is defective I will pay you for return shipping. I said this before I video tape every single package I get back to verify I get what I sold and test it right then and there while recording.

 

I have "no returns accepted" but that doesn't matter in this day and age. Anybody who has purchased on eBay just bypasses that by saying the item doesn't work. You basically just have to suck it up and take the return. It is much easier to make your own terms than allow eBay to make them for you. Plus it's generally not worth getting a negative.

 

All you have to do is put in the claim he opened to send it back for a refund. Most of the time eBay will side with you for working w/your buyer and make that acceptable terms. They will not make you pay the shipping. If you let it go so eBay has to force you to take a return you stand a higher chance of being forced to pay for return shipping.

 

You personally have a better chance of winning the claim because of what he is complaining about. I personally think ebay will side with you on the claim if you make sure the claim details shows you sold a used item and nowhere specified the manuals were in new condition because they are not. If he had specific questions about what used meant he should have asked before purchasing.

[batboard]

Thought you were the buyer, saw him trying to get support for his horrid experience...... but majority thinks hes lucky to get something in the condition it is and should ask about the item if hes going to be that picky about condition.

[gliptitude]

Thought you were the buyer, saw him trying to get support for his horrid experience...... but majority thinks hes lucky to get something in the condition it is and should ask about the item if hes going to be that picky about condition.

Are you saying the buyer of my four Vectrex games is posting about the transaction on nintendoage?

[batboard]

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=179284

 

I think so....

[icemanxp300]

Post a link in there to this thread so he can see we all feel like he is being absurd as well. From reading that thread it appears he has high expectations yet keeps buying "assuming" he is going to receive what "he feels" he should get. Read this buddy, BUY NEW if you want new!

[Tanooki]

Wow he's got like no friends in there at all and because this is a repeat pattern of behavior. Both sites seem to feel much the same that it's just abusing the system and being an ingrate.

[Tanooki]

Snip...

 

Look I don't blame you for not writing about it, but I also do in a way because it is kind of a common sense thing to at least skim. Most game manuals are just a few pages (20 or less~) so it's not hard to thumb. I would not expect someone to flip though a 100-1000pg book though as that's stupid and time wasting unless it's worth a bundle.

 

You just have to assume the worst when it comes to games anymore on ebay, too many crooks, scammers, and filchers looking to find any way to pull back a buck, save a dollar, or get one over as it's become a shady second hand business loaded with predators who see money not games as entertainment as it had been for so long. If you don't find every possible way in text and picture to cover your ass, eventually it'll get bit.

 

Your amazement means nothing to those types who collect or resell, they just want it, cheap as possible to retain or roll for profit so any imperfection you lack noting they feel is worth a dollar here or ten dollars there it will turn into an exploitation racket because ebay 90% of the time will side with the buyer as they can say you did a deceptive listing. I get you're recent in selling, that's why this thread is giving you lots of warnings. I signed up when ebay went live over 20 years ago, been selling my disused games and other odds and ends for over half that time but consistently for like 7 years or so now so I've seen things slide horribly from fair to both sides to just a game of financial russian roulette.

 

The NO returns thing I'll make this clear. It's a false pillow of comfortable bullshit wrapped in a pretty lie and has been since around the time they revoked sellers rights to leave feedback. Back in those days if you clicked it, it was a done deal as long as your listing wasn't clearly a scam. If you showed proper tracking, shipped on time, took enough justifiable images of the product, and described it to what appeared the best of your ability you got a fair deal. Now it's nothing, even their own rules in their FAQ say indirectly it's just window dressing. You're forced to take returns even if you click no returns. Someone clicking no returns basically is a tip to the buyer you will argue it if they try it, while those who click for ebay's 2 week return policy know if they're unhappy it's pain free refund time -- that's it.

 

Ebay sees YOU as a business, no different than something like Best Buy Target and Toys R Us which have ebay accounts. You're required just like them to have a loss department of sorts in place to accept being screwed and eating return shipping on a good someone didn't like. It's complete crap but that's their rule. So no, you can not set yourself up with shipping as non-refundable as ebay will deduct it automatically. You can though attempt to have terms on a 20% restocking fee, that can stick as I've seen that in practice.

 

[gliptitude]

Look I don't blame you for not writing about it, but I also do in a way because it is kind of a common sense thing to at least skim. Most game manuals are just a few pages (20 or less~) so it's not hard to thumb.

When I listed these items I didn't know about the writing. I might look for it when I sell manuals in future listings but I really do not consider it common sense in a listing like this and I'd only be doing it to protect against returns. Selling in a lot like this and shipping for free, and selling at the negotiated price of $30, these manuals are going for something like $1.75 each, and the carts for something like $5 each, (1.75x4 + 5x4=27, ... think I was able to ship these for $3?). Those are unbelievable prices for eBay and I maintain that they do not warrant any further inspection than I gave them.

[batboard]

It said used, they were used. WTF....dont accept a return, let these kids like him cry and learn. If it said mint condition then sure, some writing in the score area should be noted, but this is childish behavior on his part. Hell, if he returns them, Ill defiantly take them for 30$. Looked good to me.

[icemanxp300]

So if all of that is the case and if there really isn't such a thing as "no returns", I might as well accept returns under my own terms and state those terms in my listings. .. Perhaps buyers like johli64 don't even mess with sellers who are better fortified like this and maybe he wouldn't be requesting a return if he was going to have to pay. And then I wouldn't really have anything to argue about or wonder about or be vague about, I can completely eliminate his possible motive to scam me by accepting returns at his expense and refusing outright any refunds without a return.

 

If I charge for shipping can I also designate shipping charges as non-refundable?

 

To the peeps on NA who just asked for his ebay ID so you can block him. I wasn't giving it out but I will quote it and I most definitely have already added him, the same day I asked.

[CZroe]

If it was me, I'd be annoyed- I don't consider writing to be 'normal wear and tear', that's something along the lines of dogeared/fuzzy corners, slight sunfade, minor creases and fingermarks, etc. Writing is a specific defect that was put there intentionally at some point.

Do you also feel that used notebooks shouldn’t have writing in them? Used copy paper should be blank? Used punch cards shouldn’t have holes punched in them? Used games with internal save memory should be erased? Used ink cartridges should be full?

 

The “Score Record” part of this manual was intended to be USED for writing your scores. It is not a “defect.” It is a direct consequence of intended use for the defined purpose. Speaking of “defined purpose:” the rest of these English words have very clear English meanings/definitions. Logic says that, yes, such writing DOES fall under “normal wear and tear.” There shouldn’t even be a debate. What planet are you from?

[CZroe]

I would also like the eBay user’s ID as I have a sneaking suspicion that he’s involved in my UltraHDMI auction that ends in an hour. Thanks!

Edited January 8, 2018 by CZroe