Todd Rogers banned from Twin Galaxies and records removed

[negative1]

Update on new voicemails and updated information about the case:

 

(transcripts in thread)

https://www.twingalaxies.com/blog.php?bt=62687&fbclid=IwAR3yAy9ao6Izjzuu4hBL1vDMs-8CfVgIiZ96BgmNbxP0yj6NpYxMbQ7btZQ

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wsW_qG6Jw3w9-OGep4UyE2vYSudqKuLM/view

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11PLn9I4w_9awQB-jZb0-V82DxeXchVgl/view

 

later

-1

Edited October 11, 2020 by negative1

[Lauren Tyler]

 

Appropriate, no?

[negative1]

Todd roger also sued Guiness also for 15k, but i don't know when the case is

 

https://imgur.com/a/5suGxk2

 

 

 

later

-1

[+Random Terrain]

Did Billy Mitchell ever realize that Peter Dinklage played him in Pixels and sue the people responsible for the movie?

 

youtu.be/10vw-QSxcXI

 

[Goochman]

10 hours ago, negative1 said:

Todd roger also sued Guiness also for 15k, but i don't know when the case is

 

https://imgur.com/a/5suGxk2

 

 

 

later

-1

Todd actually has a better case than Billy.  There is no video to disprove his claim.  He has Activision documentation that stated he achieved the score that was posted for Dragster.  The computer run which proves its impossible I dont think will come into play as theres no way to verify what version Todd played and counter the fact that Activision published his scores as certified.

 

Not trying to start any arguement/discussion - I think Todd's would be more interesting to see how it proceeds.  Billy I dont think has a chance.

[Shawn]

20 hours ago, negative1 said:

Todd roger also sued Guiness also for 15k, but i don't know when the case is

 

https://imgur.com/a/5suGxk2

 

 

 

later

-1

 

Looks like Todd is not after 15 thousand but actually a cool 3 million!

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

Given that the burden of proof is on the accuser - which, in this case, is Twin Galaxies - Todd Rogers is going to have a really difficult time proving that his Dragster record was legitimate.

 

Twin Galaxies has established that even with a tool-assisted run under optimal conditions, Rogers' claimed time was not possible to achieve.  Nobody, including Rogers, has been able to recreate it through regular play, either.

 

In Rogers' defence, he says that he did it.  Activision accepted his time without verification, and possibly with an added coffee stain on the paperwork.

 

Unless there's some sort of smoking gun Rogers can pull out to prove his claims of libel and/or slander, any court in America seems likely to throw this out simply based on the existing evidence.

 

Of course, it seems unlikely that either Mitchell or Rogers are suing Twin Galaxies solely for remedy; the idea is more likely to completely bankrupt the company and potentially place its officers in a position of legal responsibility.

 

I'm really hoping that Twin Galaxies' anti-SLAPP suit against Mitchell suit succeeds - not out of any deep-seated love for Twin Galaxies, but more for the sake of putting an end to this and showing how ridiculous both of these two have been.

[Supergun]

I actually once brought up the use of that persona/character in the Pixels movie with Mitchell in one of our many discussions. And he was actually contacted by the film makers and consulted, to a certain extent, for some of the content in the movie. But it was very minimal.
 

Regarding all this Twin Galaxies / Guinness World Records / high score lawsuits stuff, I agree that it’s ridiculous & frivolous, but one thing that has always bothered me was the all or nothing manner in which they handled it.

 

Meaning, even if you managed to find rock solid proof that a particular score was indeed achieved through cheating or falsified, or incorrectly entered, or inputted by an unauthorized user, etc., how does that instantly nullify every other score ever achieved by that player?

 

Each and every individual score or record for that player should be subjected to the same rules of protocol with regards to it’s own disqualification. Meaning, each record stands on its own and remains unless or until it can be proven with evidence that it too is invalid.

[CapitanClassic]

Twin Galaxies is just pulling the Lance Armstrong solution to cheating in competitions. If you cheated once, there is no way to know if any of your records are legit. (In Lance’s case, pretty much everyone in cycling was cheating, so he was still the best cyclist among all the cheaters)

 

I think this sort of solution is probably the best when it comes to video game scores. (I think the speed running community does the same thing, doesn’t it?). Without solid proof of any score from Todd Rodgers  I am inclined to not believe it. He has quite a few scores across many games that don’t appear to be possible to even score, or would require extremely long uninterrupted marathon play times.

 

If Todd Rodgers would admit that he lied about some of his scores, and come clean about which ones he remembers he cheated on, I would be fine with allowing him to continue posting high scores. The way it currently stands, he expects us to believe his impossible scores, and is gaslighting us. (The denial is always worse than the crime)

[negative1]

5 minutes ago, CapitanClassic said:

Twin Galaxies is just pulling the Lance Armstrong solution to cheating in competitions. If you cheated once, there is no way to know if any of your records are legit. (In Lance’s case, pretty much everyone in cycling was cheating, so he was still the best cyclist among all the cheaters)

 

I think this sort of solution is probably the best when it comes to video game scores. (I think the speed running community does the same thing, doesn’t it?). Without solid proof of any score from Todd Rodgers  I am inclined to not believe it. He has quite a few scores across many games that don’t appear to be possible to even score, or would require extremely long uninterrupted marathon play times.

 

If Todd Rodgers would admit that he lied about some of his scores, and come clean about which ones he remembers he cheated on, I would be fine with allowing him to continue posting high scores. The way it currently stands, he expects us to believe his impossible scores, and is gaslighting us. (The denial is always worse than the crime)

 

I found several fake score on TG for games I liked on their scoreboard (Like Ms. Pac-Man for the genesis, (any of the modes)).

 

I proved mathematically, that it was impossible to get those scores, even if you played a perfect game.

 

Never got an answer, or reply, and the scores stayed up there for years.

 

Finally, when they removed all the cheating scores, I was glad to see that the 'real' records were up there,

or at least scores that could actually be achieved.

 

There were thousands of them, so they did the right thing. No point in wasting time trying to see which ones were real or not,

its too bad, because I'm sure at the beginning Todd Rogers could actually max out a ton of those atari games, but too bad

that he cheated and lied about other ones, making the real records be removed also.

 

later

-1

[Cobra Kai]

Why does everyone keep caveating that they know Todd Rogers is the ultimate gamer and can destroy most games, even after admitting that 'tons' of his Twin Galaxies scores were illegitimate, faked, made up and lied about? I mean, I don't know the guy personally, but what gives him this magical aura that he's an utterly fantastic gamer behind all the fake scores? That doesn't make any sense. He sounds more like a Baron Munchausen to me.

[+Random Terrain]

13 minutes ago, Cobra Kai said:

Why does everyone keep caveating that they know Todd Rogers is the ultimate gamer and can destroy most games, even after admitting that 'tons' of his Twin Galaxies scores were illegitimate, faked, made up and lied about? I mean, I don't know the guy personally, but what gives him this magical aura that he's an utterly fantastic gamer behind all the fake scores? That doesn't make any sense. He sounds more like a Baron Munchausen to me.

 

If it wasn't for the camera distracting him, the urge to to keep touching his face while he chatters, and the super-sensitive joystick making his hands not work properly, he'd be breaking records right here:

 

https://youtu.be/6WIxoVzevHk

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 hours ago, Supergun said:

Meaning, even if you managed to find rock solid proof that a particular score was indeed achieved through cheating or falsified, or incorrectly entered, or inputted by an unauthorized user, etc., how does that instantly nullify every other score ever achieved by that player?

 

Here's my take on that:

 

By cheating (regardless of the form it may take), a player is violating the spirit of sportsmanship: it's a form of dishonesty that shows contempt for both those who have competed fairly as well as the rules of fair play to which all competitors are bound.  Anyone capable of setting a record has no excuse for engaging in this sort of behaviour as their records should be able to stand on their own unquestionable merits, much as anyone aspiring to set a record should be doing so on a level footing with other competitors including record holders.

 

If a competitor cheats - regardless of whether or not they set a record - that competitor has shown that they have no respect for either the competition or the competitors.  To my mind, both as a deterrent to others and as punishment for the act of cheating, under that situation the removal of all records is not unreasonable as there is no way of knowing if past records were obtained fairly or not.

 

Now, if we're talking about erroneous entry, that's a different ball of wax.  But as far as just cheating goes, that's my stance.

[Supergun]

I think I’ve stated this before, but...
 

I agree that the “impossible” or “completely unrealistic” scores such as having exactly a perfect 65 million points as your record and the second place and all others below are in the 60 thousand range and with random numbers following rather then all zeros, can LOGICALLY be assumed to have been input “clerical” errors and/or blatant lying. PERIOD. I mean if you believe the scores in those scenarios are legit, you need to have your head examined. CLEARLY, something was done wrong there.

 

However, on the other side of the same coin, if you think that Billy Mitchel flew to Japan in 1999, met with Namco personal, played a perfect game on a PacMan machine that Namco set up on their stage in front of their cameras and their own completely controlled environment to which Mitchell had NO ACCESS TO or CONTROL Of, and somehow “cheated”, then you ALSO need to have your head examined.

 

So, in essence, that’s what I’m saying here. And it would be JUST AS UNFAIR (and historically inaccurate) to remove, delete, or negate those achievements for that player, as it would be to allow them to have and hold an impossible, or “achieved by cheating”, score.

 

And so with regards to Todd Rogers, no, he doesn’t have a magical aura or get some kind of special exemption, but he does have undeniable EXTRAORDINARY skills and talent when it comes to certain games. And, again I’ve covered this before, like him or hate him, suspect him of cheating or not, 99% of us who would sit down next to him and play Dragster, or Barnstorming, or whatever really, would not only lose to him, but the “casual” score that he would get in that scenario, would 9 out of 10 times, likely be better then your personal best of all time.

 

So, to negate all of his high scores and ban him “for life”, when he can tie or beat most world records live, and in person, in front of witnesses, is what I would call denial and actually unfair to HIM! There simply has to be an understanding that any high score, properly and legitimately achieved, by any individual, is accepted. PERIOD. Regardless of wether you like them or not and regardless of possible past discretions. Otherwise, whomever does currently hold the accepted record and calls themselves “champion” is not only incorrect, but in complete denial.

[Goochman]

Supergun - it def is a fine line, almost like the Pete Rose and Baseball confrontation.  Ive sat down and played Dragster and Barnstorming with Todd and he can post excellent scores cold with almost no practice.  It was at a CGE and by the end of the weekend Im pretty sure he got below 6 seconds, or very close to it.  Barnstorming he didnt play as much but I couldnt beat his time during the event.

 

He is very skilled at alot of the 2600 titles, but its tough to accept any score from any player where a number of anomalies have been discovered.  Kinda like the * next to Barry Bonds home run record

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

By no means am I saying that Mitchell or Rogers haven't set some impressive records, and legitimately so.  But someone can be extremely talented at something yet still have no compunctions about cheating at it.

 

@Supergun, I get what you're saying re: records that were established in unquestionable ways.  Did Mitchell fly to Japan, play a perfect game of Pac-Man in front of witnesses, and receive the title of "Video Game Player of the Century"?  Absolutely.  But does he deserve that title after it appears as though one of his Donkey Kong world record submissions may not have been above-board?

 

To my mind, no, he does not deserve that title, or a place in the record books.  This isn't a love-or-hate-Billy-Mitchell decision: it's one that comes from looking at the evidence, reaching a conclusion, and not wanting to see someone who should be above the need for cheating due to their natural talent drag world record holders (or chasers) into disrepute.  Same goes for Rogers, and others.  But that's just, like, my opinion, man ?

 

@Goochman brought up a good point re: one way of displaying these records.  FWIW, I do believe that disproven or illegitimately-obtained records should remain noted for history's sake, but not accepted for the purposes of establishing a world record.  I also believe that they should serve as an historical note as to why a competitor may have been removed from future competition.

 

Quite honestly, watching a couple of middle-aged men duke it out over the high score on a 40-year-old videogame seems kinda pointless to me, even more so when cheating's involved.  Outside of seeing how far the game (and player) can be pushed, I really don't have a great deal of interest in world records - and even less in the 'personalities' behind them.  To me it's about doing something extraordinary, not perpetuating a soap opera.

Edited October 16, 2020 by x=usr(1536)

[desiv]

I've never been a fan of the:

"He's really really good, therefor it doesn't really matter if he cheated sometimes..."

or

"Lot's of other people were cheating too, so it's OK.. I mean, he's actually good, so it's fine.."

thoughts...

 

But that's me..

 

[+batari]

20 hours ago, CapitanClassic said:

Twin Galaxies is just pulling the Lance Armstrong solution to cheating in competitions. If you cheated once, there is no way to know if any of your records are legit. (In Lance’s case, pretty much everyone in cycling was cheating, so he was still the best cyclist among all the cheaters)

 

I think this sort of solution is probably the best when it comes to video game scores. (I think the speed running community does the same thing, doesn’t it?). Without solid proof of any score from Todd Rodgers  I am inclined to not believe it. He has quite a few scores across many games that don’t appear to be possible to even score, or would require extremely long uninterrupted marathon play times.

 

If Todd Rodgers would admit that he lied about some of his scores, and come clean about which ones he remembers he cheated on, I would be fine with allowing him to continue posting high scores. The way it currently stands, he expects us to believe his impossible scores, and is gaslighting us. (The denial is always worse than the crime)

They banned Armstrong from future competition and they stripped away all of his most important wins, including Tour de France, but they didn't strip all of his earlier wins.

[negative1]

16 hours ago, Supergun said:

I think I’ve stated this before, but...
 

I agree that the “impossible” or “completely unrealistic” scores such as having exactly a perfect 65 million points as your record and the second place and all others below are in the 60 thousand range and with random numbers following rather then all zeros, can LOGICALLY be assumed to have been input “clerical” errors and/or blatant lying. PERIOD. I mean if you believe the scores in those scenarios are legit, you need to have your head examined. CLEARLY, something was done wrong there.

No, it does not mean he is lying.

 

I have several high scores on leaderboards on the xbox1: i am constantly being called a hacker, liar and cheater in messages (which i ignore),

i post videos, screen captures, and help coach people and give people tips to get better.

 

example: this is from an arcade 1up standalone unit:

 

here's an xbox one leaderboard:

 

Guess how many people think i'm fake, lying and cheating, here's a video:

 

and i'm still lying and cheating apparently.

 

i got 10 million on millipede on xbox gameroom:

 

again, its 10 times the next score, and yet, i'm the cheater, hacker, loser.

 

i could go on and on.... i have the #1 score for any version of pac-man, at 7.1 million

(took 9 hours to get).

 

first of all, NAMCO fixed the killscreen, so you can get past the killscreen at level 256.

thats how i was able to beat the perfect score of 3.3million.

 

but again, i am the worst hacker of all time, and the biggest loser, because i got good

at a very easy game.

 

i could teach pretty much anyone to play pac-man and break a million in a week.

 

after that, its just a matter of being consistent.

 

I NEVER CARED ABOUT BE A WORLD RECORD HOLDER OR HAVING A RECORD, and NEVER SUBMITTED A SCORE TO ANYWHERE.

 

I just like playing for fun and challenging myself.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

However, on the other side of the same coin, if you think that Billy Mitchel flew to Japan in 1999, met with Namco personal, played a perfect game on a PacMan machine that Namco set up on their stage in front of their cameras and their own completely controlled environment to which Mitchell had NO ACCESS TO or CONTROL Of, and somehow “cheated”, then you ALSO need to have your head examined.

 

i don't believe ANY SCORE THAT BILLY MITCHELL HAS EVER MADE back in the 80s.

 

i don't believe this one, and i don't believe the perfect score in japan, or any other score.

 

there was supposed to be a video of his game at funspot, but guess what there are gaps in the tape,

there are issues with it, so it wouldn't surprise me if he cheated on that also.

 

sure he's gotten perfect games now, and thats impressive, but he did so much shady stuff back in the day,

i have trouble believing he did anything real back then.

 

so i'm the one who should have my head examined?

 

we've asked JACE HALL of twin galaxies to release the tapes for us to inspect, but he won't do it,

because nobody cares, and they already removed all his scores, and will never put them back in.

 

i'm pretty sure about that, because someone talked to him in the 80's, and he claims he used MAME

to experiment with games [PROOF is still being verifed], but if you look on the CAG forums, there is

a reference to a phone call with him talking about it.

 

well Billy now claims he has never used MAME, doesn't know what it is, and has never used anything

except the arcade versions, yeah right.

 

so not everything is what it seems.

 

later

-1

Edited October 17, 2020 by negative1

[Shannon]

13 minutes ago, negative1 said:

No, it does not mean he is lying.

 

I have several high scores on leaderboards on the xbox1: i am constantly being called a hacker, liar and cheater in messages (which i ignore),

i post videos, screen captures, and help coach people and give people tips to get better.

 

example: this is from an arcade 1up standalone unit:

 

here's an xbox one leaderboard:

 

Guess how many people think i'm fake, lying and cheating, here's a video:

 

and i'm still lying and cheating apparently.

 

i got 10 million on millipede on xbox gameroom:

 

again, its 10 times the next score, and yet, i'm the cheater, hacker, loser.

 

i could go on and on.... i have the #1 score for any version of pac-man, at 7.1 million

(took 9 hours to get).

 

first of all, NAMCO fixed the killscreen, so you can get past the killscreen at level 256.

thats how i was able to beat the perfect score of 3.3million.

 

but again, i am the worst hacker of all time, and the biggest loser, because i got good

at a very easy game.

 

i could teach pretty much anyone to play pac-man and break a million in a week.

 

after that, its just a matter of being consistent.

 

I NEVER CARED ABOUT BE A WORLD RECORD HOLDER OR HAVING A RECORD, and NEVER SUBMITTED A SCORE TO ANYWHERE.

 

I just like playing for fun and challenging myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i don't believe ANY SCORE THAT BILLY MITCHELL HAS EVER MADE.

 

i don't believe this one, and i don't believe the perfect score in japan, or any other score.

 

there was supposed to be a video of his game at funspot, but guess what there are gaps in the tape,

there are issues with it, so it wouldn't surprise me if he cheated on that also.

 

sure he's gotten perfect games now, and thats impressive, but he do so much shady stuff back in the day,

i have trouble believing he did anything real back then.

 

so i'm the one who should have my head examined?

 

we've asked JACE HALL of twin galaxies to release the tapes for us to inspect, but he won't do it,

because nobody cares, and they already removed all his scores, and will never put them back in.

 

i'm pretty sure about that, because someone talked to him in the 80's, and he claims he used MAME

to experiment with games [PROOF is still being verifed], but if you look on the CAG forums, there is

a reference to a phone call with him talking about it.

 

well Billy now claims he has never used MAME, doesn't know what it is, and has never used anything

except the arcade versions, yeah right.

 

so not everything is what it seems.

 

later

-1

 

Plus 1 on that... Or would that be a negative 1?   

 

[negative1]

just another note:

 

here is the reference to my 7.1 million on pac-man:

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,2967.msg42832.html#msg42832

=====================================================================

ok,

just got the top score now (beat 6.66 million)... 7, 132,500 points !

game went like this:
--------------------
1st  - 1.9 million points
2nd - 2.4 million
3rd - 7.0 million
4th - 7.1 million

the 3rd man DID NOT WANT TO DIE...
i messed my pattern (stacked) up in the same place every time...

got past 2 potential killscreens... the xbox version repeats every 256 levels...

no breaks.. just had a few TERRRIBLE warm up games (about 20 of them)...
i refused to continue if i didn't hit the 9th key on first man..

played pretty much for the last 7-8 hours... (had WKRP in Cincinatti going on in the background)

i still think i will hit 9.99 million someday...

and yes, this is the most boring game ever.. i only used 1 ninth key pattern

 

sorry, no video or anything, i didn't think i'd hit the record,
and i'm not really worried about submitting it anyways..

later
-1

'i've got pac-man fever'

===============================================

 

here's the original post about the 6.6 million score on the xbox:

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,2461.msg31192.html#msg31192

 

Anyways, i'm also trying to be the first person to get to 1,000,000 on ms pac-man,

which has never been done. ALTHOUGH they fixed the killscreen on level 132/141

on the xbox.

 

i can do it with 5 man start (and 1 continue)...

 

but i want to do it with 3men+1, no continues.

 

i'm sure if i ever get there, i'll be a hacker, cheater, loser again.

 

later

-1

 

 

 

[negative1]

interesting, billy mitchell at it again... i tried antstream for streaming, and it was terrible,

so NO i won't challenge him...

 

http://www.classicarcadegaming.com/forums/index.php/topic,7460.msg79855/topicseen.html#msg79855

 

Pac-Man Tournament: Legends, Billy Mitchell and Jon Stoodley Challenge the World - October 23-30, 2020

 

Instagram: See Video: Billy Mitchell Official Challenge - Link:
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Tournament held by Antstream (Ant Stream) Arcade - Join the Online Live Streamed Tournament:

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https://www.instagram.com/billymitchellofficial/

Join me on @from October 23 -30, 2020 for the largest Pac-Man tournament in history!

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This week: Go head to head with two champions - Billy Mitchell and Jon Stoodley in our exclusive Pac-Man tournament!

Can you steal the top spot on the leaderboard and become the next Legend? Join Antstream Arcade today to find out!

For a limited period, try Antstream free for 7 days. You’ll have full access to all Antstream has to offer.
To get started, choose a plan and create an account. Then download the app and play!
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Quote

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October 17, 2020
Video: Instagram Antstream Arcade Pac-Man Challenge Interview:
Play Antstream Arcade interview with Jon Stoodley, Perfect Pac-Man Insagram Live:
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Facebook: Antstream Arcade
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later

-1

[Tickled_Pink]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:03 AM, x=usr(1536) said:

Given that the burden of proof is on the accuser - which, in this case, is Twin Galaxies - Todd Rogers is going to have a really difficult time proving that his Dragster record was legitimate.

 

He should have taken the case against Guinness in the UK. The burden of proof would have been on them.

Edit: Just reread what you said. Can you clarify? If the burden of proof is on Twin Galaxies, then it would be easier for Rogers to disprove their claims about him. Or are you misunderstanding what's means by burden of proof? My understanding of US libel laws is that the burden of proof falls on the plaintiff to prove what was said about them by the defendant is false.

In the UK, the burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove what they said about the plaintiff was true, hence my original comment about him dropping the ball by suing Guinness in the US. It would be easier for him to win a case in the UK.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Tickled_Pink

[+x=usr(1536)]

52 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

He should have taken the case against Guinness in the UK. The burden of proof would have been on them.

Edit: Just reread what you said. Can you clarify? If the burden of proof is on Twin Galaxies, then it would be easier for Rogers to disprove their claims about him. Or are you misunderstanding what's means by burden of proof? My understanding of US libel laws is that the burden of proof falls on the plaintiff to prove what was said about them by the defendant is false.

 

Looking back on what I originally wrote, it was poorly-worded.  Hopefully this will help to clarify:

 

52 minutes ago, Tickled_Pink said:

In the UK, the burden of proof falls on the defendant to prove what they said about the plaintiff was true, hence my original comment about him dropping the ball by suing Guinness in the US. It would be easier for him to win a case in the UK.

 

Which is also how it works in the US.  What I was trying to say was that Twin Galaxies' evidence (the tool-assisted Dragster and Barnstorming speedruns, witness statements re: Rogers entering his own scores into the TG database, etc.) was, IMHO, likely to outweigh Rogers' evidence (claims of having set the record, Activision's acceptance of his score without verification, no known repeat performance of said record) in any case of libel or slander.  TG would still have to prove their case with the burden of proof being on them as the accuser; to my eyes, though, Rogers' case is weaker.

[Tickled_Pink]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

 

Looking back on what I originally wrote, it was poorly-worded.  Hopefully this will help to clarify:

 

 

Which is also how it works in the US.  What I was trying to say was that Twin Galaxies' evidence (the tool-assisted Dragster and Barnstorming speedruns, witness statements re: Rogers entering his own scores into the TG database, etc.) was, IMHO, likely to outweigh Rogers' evidence (claims of having set the record, Activision's acceptance of his score without verification, no known repeat performance of said record) in any case of libel or slander.  TG would still have to prove their case with the burden of proof being on them as the accuser; to my eyes, though, Rogers' case is weaker.

I'm afraid that I had to check this as I always thought that the burden of proof lay with the plaintiff (in this case, Rogers) as he's the one accusing TG of libel. It usually surprises Americans when I point out that in the UK, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

I was able to find this: Difference between US and UK libel laws.

 

So, in this instance, it's Rogers who has the burden of proof. It's up to him to show that, on the balance of probability, TG libelled him. In the UK, the burden of proof would be on TG, where it would be up to them to show that, on the balance of probability, they didn't libel him. In the UK, if you want to say something bad about someone, you need to be able to back it up with evidence. In the US, it's a free-for-all because anyone can say anything about someone else with no repercussions. People argue about freedom of speech, but you don't have a right to get someone lynched by accusing them of being a paedophile with no evidence.

 

Despite this article, you shouldn't think that it's easy to win a libel case in the UK. You first need money - and lots of it, which kind of makes libel laws a little backward and something I've complained about for some time. Typically, winning a libel case means receiving monetary compensation should you win. But, if you're already rich then you don't need the money. And if you're a famous individual then there's a good chance you can fire back through the media, either through an interview of your own, or via a lawyer's statement. So, why do you need to go to court? Now, an ordinary person who's libelled is in a very different position. No money to pay expensive libel lawyers. No right of reply. He just has to put up with the destruction of his character, which could lead to people believing BS about them and that, in turn, could lead to the individual being shunned or put at risk of physical harm, as well as subjecting that person to risk of mental health issues. And winning a bucketload of money in a libel case would help someone rebuild their lives.

 

The UK's libel laws do need some extensive reform but not in the way that this article seems to suggest.


But, I've gone off tangent here a little. My original comment was going to suggest that Rogers sue Guinness World Records in the UK. They couldn't do it with TG because, AFAIK, TG has no physical presence in the UK. I wasn't aware that the law has changed both in the US and UK to prevent libel tourism, so that's no longer a possibility for him.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Tickled_Pink