Has anyone ever upgraded a 1064 for extended memory?

[Gunstar]

I just thought it might be a convenience to upgrade one to say, 256K, and then have the portability to just plug into whatever 600XL or 800XL I want too, one memory upgrade for all, and still have a PBI pass-thru port and a nice matching case.

 

I also realize that there might also be issues with differences in PBI ports, since it was originally made for the 600XL only...but I just thought I'd ask if others had thought or done something along these lines. I'm aware of Sys-check 2 that can do this, but no case and no PBI pass-thru...I'm thinking of a more Rambo like external mod.

[+Philsan]

Not exactly what you asked but RAM320XL was a nice device

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/162420-ram-320xl/page-17?do=findComment&comment=2098262

together with RAM320XE/576 for XE machines

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232856-ram320xe576-order-thread/?p=3135913

 

Unfortunately both discontinued.

A planned enhanced RAM320XL didn't come out.

[MrFish]

Unfortunately both discontinued.

 

In that case it would be nice if the author would release the plans to the community, so that someone else might pick up the torch.

 

They were popular devices, and I think there are still a lot of individuals that would be interested in their production.

[+Nezgar]

Sys-Check 2.2 by tf_hh does this and much more, and is still available.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/251315-sys-check-v22-ready-to-use-batch-available/

 

Switchable 512KB extended RAM, and 4 OS's including the Test 'OS' a stock XL/XE OS, a hias highspeed patched OS, and I think QMEG os? All can be reflashed with your own choice of OS's.

 

Edit: ah, I missed you mentioned you knew of this already, but missing PBI passthru... But its been proven technically possible I guess. you can still use a cartridge on an XL, and it does have a cartridge port on the board for XE's.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Nezgar

[Gunstar]

Yes, I even own a Sys-Check 2.2 myself. And it's great. But I still like the idea of an upgraded 1064 for two reasons I mentioned and a third; Matching case, PBI pass-thru and horizontal profile. I hate the Sys-check 2.2 sticking up on the backside, and I'm planning on changing the PBI connector on it out to an angled one so it will lay horizontally. I will make a case for it too. It's all flashbacks to the horrid ZX81/TS1000 days with the 16K ram module, ironically I think it's called the 1016 ram-pack (1064/1016 ) for US Timex/Sinclair 1000 models, not only ugly looking, but very unsecured as well, it's infamous.

 

Actually, make it 5 reasons, also include home-brew upgrades are dirt cheap and I love doing them, it's my hobby. But I'd prefer not to start from scratch, Unless I have too. I like monkey-see-monkey do instructions and schematics, then sometimes I make adjustments to my needs or wants.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Gunstar

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

The 1064 replaces the RAM in the 600XL. The RAM in the 600XL is no longer accessed when the 1064 is plugged in. If you just replace the RAMs inside the 1064 for bigger ones, the computer can still only access the lower 64kB.

 

BTW if you'd be able to plug the 1064 into the 800XL, you'd replace the 800XLs RAM with the 1064XLs RAM. You'd still only be able to use 64kB of RAM.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS now if somebody could develop something "like" the 1064, but that uses the same addresses to controle memory as the MIO, that would be nice....

[Rybags]

The external plug & play extended RAM upgrades supply the PIA PORTB functionality inside the device.

Upgrading a 1064 would need the same. Possibly a daughterboard setup could contain the required logic. 41256 can replace 4164 DRam chips then some rework would be required for the extra address line and slight differences in pin assignment.

 

The level of skill required I suspect would be somewhat above and beyond that required to internally install an existing Ram upgrade.

[+Stephen]

Times have changed. Ultimate 1MB is the only RAM expansion I ever recommend these days.

[+mytek]

As Rybags pointed out you would minimally have to decode the $D3xx area and mimic the PIA PortB outputs. You could do this old school and use a 74LS138 and an actual PIA, or it could be done in a CPLD. Once you had the equivalent to PortB, then the rest of the memory upgrade can be treated the same as what you would do for an internal upgrade, but I would suggest using SRAM for the entire memory space to make your life much easier.

 

Edit: there are probably a few other bits that need to play into this, but that's it in a nutshell.

[Rybags]

In between the decode and fact you also need to emulate the data direction and mode bit in the control register, hardly makes it worthwhile doing it using discrete logic components.

Essentially you'd be making a daughterboard to just do that, so in the end it becomes a redundant solution putting your Ram expansion in the 1064 instead of the 600XL.

I suppose the rare exception might be if you had so many other upgrades but really I'd much rather have my HDD and SIO2xx outside the machine rather than the memory.

[Marius]

Times have changed. Ultimate 1MB is the only RAM expansion I ever recommend these days.

 

Hmmm... my most favorite RAM expansion is the XE compatible 512KB, battery backupped, RAM expansion in the Turbo Freezer 2011. I use U1MB yes, but not for the RAM expansion lol. I love the battery backup facility of the Turbo Freezer (I use this a lot) and it is external. It is a pity that the Turbo Freezer is not longer available. It is so awesome, that I would almost say that an atari without Turbo Freezer isn't a real atari haha. Joke of course, but I tried to express my enthusiasm for the Turbo Freezer.

[+Stephen]

 

Hmmm... my most favorite RAM expansion is the XE compatible 512KB, battery backupped, RAM expansion in the Turbo Freezer 2011. I use U1MB yes, but not for the RAM expansion lol. I love the battery backup facility of the Turbo Freezer (I use this a lot) and it is external. It is a pity that the Turbo Freezer is not longer available. It is so awesome, that I would almost say that an atari without Turbo Freezer isn't a real atari haha. Joke of course, but I tried to express my enthusiasm for the Turbo Freezer.

I have one, but I rarely use it. You're right though, it is an awesome device.

[Heaven/TQA]

Not exactly what you asked but RAM320XL was a nice device

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/162420-ram-320xl/page-17?do=findComment&comment=2098262

together with RAM320XE/576 for XE machines

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/232856-ram320xe576-order-thread/?p=3135913

 

Unfortunately both discontinued.

A planned enhanced RAM320XL didn't come out.

 

 

 

ram320xe discontinued? that's imho best for me as non hardware guy. plug n play.

[Heaven/TQA]

I have one, but I rarely use it. You're right though, it is an awesome device.

 

oh yes... and my other machine has Turbo Freezer... again plug n play.

[Gunstar]

Times have changed. Ultimate 1MB is the only RAM expansion I ever recommend these days.

That's not for everyone. First, I see no need for 1MB or more, for me 512K covers all I need except a couple demos, I can play Space Harrier or AtariBlast! from rom, a trend that is very likely to continue so everyone can play such great large memory games. 256K is really all I need, it covers everything but demos and two games if you can't get the GR8 software cartridges. Now, nothing against the extra ram, but I much prefer using my Atarimax 32-in-1 Warp + OS than to remove it in exchange for extra memory I don't need, and limited to 4 OS's, which can't include my favorite, Warp +, only available on the 32-in-1. It's what I put in all my machines. I do plan on going U1MB and pretty much all Lotharek upgrades in that one machine, but for the rest, I must have my 32-in-1. Period. Hell, I even set up my MyIDE II cartridge with SpartaDOS X pass-thru cart, thanks to FJC's drivers, just so I could still use Warp+ OS (or any other on the 32-in-1) instead MyBIOS.

 

Not to mention the WHOLE POINT of the thread; a PORTABLE memory upgrade with pass-thru PBI.

 

In any case, it's becoming clear that no one has ever attempted to do a Rambo-like external upgrade using the 1064. So, I will look into creating one myself.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Gunstar

[_The Doctor__]

I agree with some modification,minimally I have found 320k to be most capable, and it's what I try to do with every machine as a memory enhancement, switching down to 192k for certain software that won't play nice. The next most useful is indeed 512k and that handles just about everything save those couple 1 meg only demos that appear to be coded just to show off 1 meg being used... It would be pretty nice to have a external U1MB with pbi pass thru.. MIO ramdisk... Black box features lol you know I could keep going, you know the dream.

 

U1MB as internal for the win.

 

512 external like a 1064 or sys-check but with pbi pass thru would be ideal and a massive help for those with minimal modding skills, but hey maybe the U1MB can be made in an exernalized version...

Edited January 31, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[flashjazzcat]

U1MB provides four operating systems of your choice which can be flashed with any OS you like in a couple of minutes via software. The 32-in-1 provides a fixed selection which cannot be changed without putting the flash chip in a USB programmer and editing the binary in a hex editor AFAIK.

[_The Doctor__]

I take the 32in1 and program it in an Atarimax Cart using just the Atari.... but you do have use a chip puller to do it.... you do not need the usb programmer to do it.

Edited January 31, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[flashjazzcat]

Misread... Please ignore.

Edited January 31, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[+mytek]

The ability to reprogram the 4 OS slots on the U1MB in circuit and without removal of anything, does have a it's advantages. Besides how many simultaneous OS selections do you really need? I suspect for the vast majority of users they'll quickly lock into 2 or 3 that they often need, with any others being only required on rare occasions. Since you can re-flash the U1MB slots within a matter of minutes, no sweat, no disassembly, and no fuss, even having to do that is not a big deal.

 

So here's a quick comparison...

 

AtariMax 32-in-1 (total cost w/shipping $54)

• Allows up to 32 OS versions to be selected from a menu
• Re-flashing requires chip removal
• Other features: none that I am aware of

Lotharek Ultimate 1 Meg (total cost w/shipping $88)

• Allows up to 4 OS versions to be selected from menu
• Re-flashing can be done in place without opening the case
• Other features:
  • 1 Meg Ram expansion - reconfigurable
  • Battery backed RTC
  • Built-in SDX
  • Built-in GOS compatibility
  • Up to 8 additional re-flashable language/game slots
  • Built-in High Speed SIO and SIO2BT support
  • Built-in IDE/CF interface support
  • Peripheral device enable/disable (stereo, covox, ect.)

So for $32 more, the U1MB brings a lot of very useful extras to the table.

[Gunstar]

The ability to reprogram the 4 OS slots on the U1MB in circuit and without removal of anything, does have a it's advantages. Besides how many simultaneous OS selections do you really need? I suspect for the vast majority of users they'll quickly lock into 2 or 3 that they often need, with any others being only required on rare occasions. Since you can re-flash the U1MB slots within a matter of minutes, no sweat, no disassembly, and no fuss, even having to do that is not a big deal.

 

So here's a quick comparison...

 

AtariMax 32-in-1 (total cost w/shipping $54)

• Allows up to 32 OS versions to be selected from a menu
• Re-flashing requires chip removal
• Other features: none that I am aware of

Lotharek Ultimate 1 Meg (total cost w/shipping $88)

• Allows up to 4 OS versions to be selected from menu
• Re-flashing can be done in place without opening the case
• Other features:
  • 1 Meg Ram expansion - reconfigurable
  • Battery backed RTC
  • Built-in SDX
  • Built-in GOS compatibility
  • Up to 8 additional re-flashable language/game slots
  • Built-in High Speed SIO and SIO2BT support
  • Built-in IDE/CF interface support
  • Peripheral device enable/disable (stereo, covox, ect.)

So for $32 more, the U1MB brings a lot of very useful extras to the table.

• 1 meg- don't need it
• Battery backed RTC- already have it in my Super SpartaDOS X cart
• Built-in SDX- Don't need it, have SSDX cart and MyIDE 2 can be flashed for this as well, with the very fast and easy to use programmer cartridge, so I'm covered already either way.
• Built-in GOS compatibility- Not sure what this means, I have successfully used Diamond 3.0 (from MyIDE 2 flash-ram, which, by the way I can also "build-in" SDX if I choose), I successfully used ATOS and BOSS- XL/XE as well. Let me know when JFC's GUI is completed and I'll test it.
• upto 8 reflashable game slots- Whatever, I don't need it, I can use MyIDE 2 sram, Atarimax 8Mb cart or The!Cart for such things, which I already have.
• Built in high-speed SIO- Warp+ OS and several others on 32-in-one have this ability, bullet point missing for this fact.
• Builtin IDE/CF support- 32-in-1 OS has 2 MyIDE OS's built-in to support this as well, 32-in-1 bullet point missing for this fact. but I don't need it MyIDE 2 covers it as well, using Warp+ OS.
• Built in peripheral device and stereo enable/disable-don't know why I would need it, I have both stereo and mono already connected and just turning off the PC speakers connected to stereo works fine, no plans for covox use.

Maybe, you should become "aware" of what the 32-in-1 has to offer, which you clearly aren't, here are some more features: Built-in remote control OS for use with SIO2PC/APE software, Cold-start reset/select combo instead of powering down, Reversable BASIC OPTION-no need to hold down OPTION unless you wnat the built-in BASIC, and many of the OS's included have unique features of their own like for developing, extended memory. Also, I don't need to reflash the 32-in-1 like U1MB does, with it's mere four OS's, I have all I ever want and need already built-in.

 

U1MB sounds great for someone starting upgrading from scratch. Which I plan on doing with one of my 3 1200XL's. But my other 2 and my 800XL are getting the older upgrades I prefer, and already have most on-hand ready to install or already installed.

 

I just thought it would be neat to make a portable 1064 upgraded to 256K. Again, as I said to Stephen, This thread is about the 1064 upgrade possibilities, and not what may or may not be considered the "best" memory upgrade, especially internal. The entire point here is to make ONE portable upgrade I can plug in, NOT installing more internal, no matter how good they might be considered.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Gunstar

[+mytek]

 

• 1 meg- don't need it
• Battery backed RTC- already have it in my Super SpartaDOS X cart
• Built-in SDX- Don't need it, have SSDX cart and MyIDE 2 can be flashed for this as well, with the very fast and easy to use programmer cartridge, so I'm covered already either way.
• Built-in GOS compatibility- Not sure what this means, I have successfully used Diamond 3.0 (from MyIDE 2 flash-ram, which, by the way I can also "build-in" SDX if I choose), I successfully used ATOS and BOSS- XL/XE as well. Let me know when JFC's GUI is completed and I'll test it.
• upto 8 reflashable game slots- Whatever, I don't need it, I can use MyIDE 2 sram, Atarimax 8Mb cart or The!Cart for such things, which I already have.
• Built in high-speed SIO- Warp+ OS and several others on 32-in-one have this ability, bullet point missing for this fact.
• Builtin IDE/CF support- 32-in-1 OS has 2 MyIDE OS's built-in to support this as well, 32-in-1 bullet point missing for this fact. but I don't need it MyIDE 2 covers it as well, using Warp+ OS.
• Built in peripheral device and stereo enable/disable-don't know why I would need it, I have both stereo and mono already connected and just turning off the PC speakers connected to stereo works fine, no plans for covox use.

 

Sounds great for someone starting upgrading from scratch. Which I plan on doing with one of my 3 1200XL's. But my other 2 and my 800XL are getting the older upgrades I prefer, and already have most on-hand ready to install or already installed.

 

I just thought it would be neat to make a portable 1064 upgraded to 256K. Again, as I said to Stephen, This thread is about the 1064 upgrade possibilities, and not what may or may not be considered the "best" memory upgrade, especially internal. The entire point here is to make ONE portable upgrade I can plug in, NOT installing more internal, no matter how good they might be considered.

 

 

Oh I totally understand what you were proposing with this topic, but since it had veered slightly off course with people talking about 32-in-1's and U1MB's I thought it was good to do a break-down on what each product brought to the table.

 

As for a PBI plug-in memory expansion beyond 64K, that would be cool as well . And as you mentioned, nice from a portability stand-point especially if you have a couple of 600XL's or 800XL's, and don't wish to crack them open and/or duplicate hardware and costs.

[flashjazzcat]

The 1064 is definitely one of the more aesthetically appealing PBI add-ons but the differences between the ECI (XE parallel connector) and XL PBI connector probably make the design of a custom extended RAM module which fits in the case a less than appealing proposition, since it would be suitable only for XL machines. Moreover, should you wish to plug it into an 800XL, good luck accessing the monitor jack. The ubiquity of internal RAM upgrades does not exactly push such a module further up the to-do list, either. I wondered some years ago why the IDE Plus 2.0 didn't stick a 1MB RAM upgrade on the board (along with IDE, SDX, RTC, and copious flash ROM space), but I guess that aside from raising the cost, the target audience were generally perceived to already have sufficient RAM built into the machine.

 

Shame about the 1064, since there aren't many PBI add-ons which actually have a casing of any description at all, and I'm not a great fan of naked green PCBs sticking out of the machine.

 

One may not require the extra features of the U1MB, but unless you already have 128K or more in the machine - and since the 1064 extended RAM option is no more than a daydream (and won't fit your 800XL anyway) - it's nevertheless worth considering along with other internal options, and the incorrect assertion that U1MB couldn't run Warp OS - since it was made - required rebuttal. It can, if indeed that is a selling point.

Edited January 31, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[Gunstar]

The 1064 is definitely one of the more aesthetically appealing PBI add-ons but the differences between the ECI (XE parallel connector) and XL PBI connector probably make the design of a custom extended RAM module which fits in the case a less than appealing proposition, since it would be suitable only for XL machines. Moreover, should you wish to plug it into an 800XL, good luck accessing the monitor jack. The ubiquity of internal RAM upgrades does not exactly push such a module further up the to-do list, either. I wondered some years ago why the IDE Plus 2.0 didn't stick a 1MB RAM upgrade on the board (along with IDE, SDX, RTC, and copious flash ROM space), but I guess that aside from raising the cost, the target audience were generally perceived to already have sufficient RAM built into the machine.

 

Shame about the 1064, since there aren't many PBI add-ons which actually have a casing of any description at all, and I'm not a great fan of naked green PCBs sticking out of the machine.

 

One may not require the extra features of the U1MB, but unless you already have 128K or more in the machine - and since the 1064 extended RAM option is no more than a daydream (and won't fit your 800XL anyway) - it's nevertheless worth considering along with other internal options, and the incorrect assertion that U1MB couldn't run Warp OS - since it was made - required rebuttal. It can, if indeed that is a selling point.

Thanks for the reality-check. I guess I'll just be satisfied with Sys-check 2.2 512K sram until an external one comes along for Dropcheck's 1090XL(R.E?) expansion box. About Warp+, as far as I know, there is no down-loadable version anywhere to get it on an U1MB, It's still might be a held copyright by Atarimax as far as I know, and so getting it on an U1MB would be hard and might piracy. Of course it's possible not all the OS's on the 32-in-1 are strictly PD anyway, but Steve is still around, the other OS entities are not. Not everyone is a generous as you with their work. Thanks FJC!

Nothing agains Steve and making money for his hard-earned work and wonderful products. I wouldn't blame you for asking for more than donations yourself, FJC.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Gunstar

[flashjazzcat]

Heh, yes, well the hardware can hardly be held accountable for the EULA. Shame the 1064 blocks ports on the 800XL, since I did at one point toy with the idea of putting my first (purchased) IDE Plus 2.0 in there before I sold it.