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DanthWader

Atari 7800 / 2600 / SMS NES style controllers V1.2

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Have a few fully assembled controllers in stock. Still working on a listing for custom 3D printed label. Getting a large shipment of filament soon so we will have a TON of colors.

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Have a few fully assembled controllers in stock. Still working on a listing for custom 3D printed label. Getting a large shipment of filament soon so we will have a TON of colors.

Also be sure to post some overlays for sale too (for those of us with pre-modded NES controllers).

 

The silver text on black background should work perfect for beige controllers.

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Also be sure to post some overlays for sale too (for those of us with pre-modded NES controllers).

 

The silver text on black background should work perfect for beige controllers.

I am waiting on a huge shipment of colors before I post it. We were running low on filament, i'll have that listing up ASAP.

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Got ya. I'm sick of mistaking my converted Atari 7800 controller for a stock NES. There is a hand painted Atari logo over the old blacked out Nintendo logo, albeit misshapen, but still easy to miss. I grabbed the controller on multiple occasions and try to insert it into the NES before I realize it's got the 9-pin Atari plug attached. :dunce:

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Got ya. I'm sick of mistaking my converted Atari 7800 controller for a stock NES. There is a hand painted Atari logo over the old blacked out Nintendo logo, albeit misshapen, but still easy to miss. I grabbed the controller on multiple occasions and try to insert it into the NES before I realize it's got the 9-pin Atari plug attached. :dunce:

 

See I don't have this issue because I only use the black shell controllers for my 7800 use. The black matches the overall color scheme better anyway. So NES controllers stay beige/off white/whatever color that is...and Atari stays black.

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So I grabbed two of these a few weeks ago and finally got to test it out today. I played river raid. First off, I cant believe how more awesome river raid was using this controller. I think this controller is awesome! One thing I noticed though, is everytime I press the fire button, I got a little bit of interference on my video. Just like a little jump of the picture. I tested a regular 7800 controller too and did not have the same issue. Anyone else have this problem? Btw I am using a 2600 light sixer with av mod I just picked up off an Atari age member.

Edited by Sapicco

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Oh, dang. Way back when I had a 7800 of my very own, I had to construct a joystick coupler with pieces of wood and long nails. It worked, but man was it ugly. Not nearly the quality of the product you've got here. Bravo on a slick design!

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I finally was able to break out my 7800 and plugged in my awesome new controller and I had quite the game of dig dug

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I finally was able to break out my 7800 and plugged in my awesome new controller and I had quite the game of dig dug

Did you notice anything when pressing the fire buttons? Ill have to break out my 7800 to see if I have the same problem.

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No I did not notice any glitches or screen problems or anything like that

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I have an UAV AV modded 7800 and haven't noticed anything when using these controllers on it and I've got like 4 of them now.

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I figured out its the console and not the controllers. I tried a standard 2600 joystick, a pro line, and EU controller and had the same issue. I LOVE these controllers, might have to get two more.

Edited by Sapicco

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Did you notice anything when pressing the fire buttons? Ill have to break out my 7800 to see if I have the same problem.

Another forum member had similar issues with a direct wired joystick harness I made for him to install in a custom 2600 arcade controller. It was installed inside a gutted fight stick PS2 controller with a custom overlay revealing a single 28mm button hole.

 

He complaned of intermittent lines on his 2600 during presses of the fire button and produced a video. Later he claimed the 2600 sticks did not exhibit the issue despite the fact they are direct wired just like the arcade harness. It's literally five contact switches or dome buttons connected to a common ground. The issue couldn't be reproduced on my end, but it may be a hardware quirk affecting some consoles but not others. I later ended up buying the one-of-a-kind custom joystick back from him after he auctioned it on ebay.

 

I've used 560 ohm resistors in past 7800 joystick build projects because Radio Shack stocked them but not the less common 620.

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So I grabbed two of these a few weeks ago and finally got to test it out today. I played river raid. First off, I cant believe how more awesome river raid was using this controller. I think this controller is awesome! One thing I noticed though, is everytime I press the fire button, I got a little bit of interference on my video. Just like a little jump of the picture. I tested a regular 7800 controller too and did not have the same issue. Anyone else have this problem? Btw I am using a 2600 light sixer with av mod I just picked up off an Atari age member.

Another forum member had similar issues with a direct wired joystick harness I made for him to install in a custom 2600 arcade controller. It was installed inside a gutted fight stick PS2 controller with a custom overlay revealing a single 28mm button hole.

He complaned of intermittent lines on his 2600 during presses of the fire button and produced a video. Later he claimed the 2600 sticks did not exhibit the issue despite the fact they are direct wired just like the arcade harness. It's literally five contact switches or dome buttons connected to a common ground. The issue couldn't be reproduced on my end, but it may be a hardware quirk affecting some consoles but not others. I later ended up buying the one-of-a-kind custom joystick back from him after he auctioned it on ebay.

I've used 560 ohm resistors in past 7800 joystick build projects because Radio Shack stocked them but not the less common 620.

That was me Kosmic was talking about, and I've had a similar issue with some controllers on my Atari 2600 Light Sixer where pressing a fire button creates brief flashes of horizontal lines of interference on the screen. I had this problem with the custom arcade stick that Kosmic did the wiring on and the Suncom TAC-2 joystick as well, but never had any problems when using original CX-40 joysticks, ATGames reproduction CX-40s, Best Electronics gold upgraded CX-40s, Wico Command Control sticks, or the Edladdin Super Twin 78 that I owned for a time.

 

I never did figure out why the custom arcade stick and Suncom TAC-2 joystick produced lines of interference on the screen when the fire button was pressed, but it does seem that Light Sixers can be a little picky when it comes to button contacts.

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That was me Kosmic was talking about, and I've had a similar issue with some controllers on my Atari 2600 Light Sixer where pressing a fire button creates brief flashes of horizontal lines of interference on the screen. I had this problem with the custom arcade stick that Kosmic did the wiring on and the Suncom TAC-2 joystick as well, but never had any problems when using original CX-40 joysticks, ATGames reproduction CX-40s, Best Electronics gold upgraded CX-40s, Wico Command Control sticks, or the Edladdin Super Twin 78 that I owned for a time.

 

I never did figure out why the custom arcade stick and Suncom TAC-2 joystick produced lines of interference on the screen when the fire button was pressed, but it does seem that Light Sixers can be a little picky when it comes to button contacts.

I really don't understand either. Both are types of switch contacts, both have zero or nearly zero ohms resistance. Possibly contact bounce might be affecting the logic input? It's plausible one type of switch (micros versus dome) may have different behavior on a micro time scale in terms of contact bounce, but you'd need a logic analyzer to detect it. The CPU reads the joystick directions but the TIA reads the fire button, paddles, difficulty switches, and also controls the audio / video output, so interference is definitely possible.

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I really don't understand either. Both are types of switch contacts, both have zero or nearly zero ohms resistance. Possibly contact bounce might be affecting the logic input? It's plausible one type of switch (micros versus dome) may have different behavior on a micro time scale in terms of contact bounce, but you'd need a logic analyzer to detect it. The CPU reads the joystick directions but the TIA reads the fire button, paddles, difficulty switches, and also controls the audio / video output, so interference is definitely possible.

The really weird thing is I couldn't even nail it down to the switch contact. I got those lines of interference with the custom arcade stick we built but not with the Edladdin Super Twin 78, and both of them used the exact same Industrias Lorenzo arcade buttons with 20g soft touch microswitches. The button components were identical, so I think it might have more to do with the kind of cord used for the controller and the shielding (or lack thereof) in the cable. It's a weird problem for sure, and one that I've only seen happen with Light Sixer model 2600s.

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The really weird thing is I couldn't even nail it down to the switch contact. I got those lines of interference with the custom arcade stick we built but not with the Edladdin Super Twin 78, and both of them used the exact same Industrias Lorenzo arcade buttons with 20g soft touch microswitches. The button components were identical, so I think it might have more to do with the kind of cord used for the controller and the shielding (or lack thereof) in the cable. It's a weird problem for sure, and one that I've only seen happen with Light Sixer model 2600s.

The 7800 controllers used resistors tied to the paddle inputs. I mentioned to you in a PM that adding an inline 620 ohm resistor to the fire button of a 2600 controller (without access to the paddle pins) might cause the custom 2600 stick to malfunction if connected to 7800 hardware. If the game is expecting two button controllers, it outputs a strong logic high signal on pin 6 which is designed to override the ~620 inline resistance inside a 7800 controller. Pressing a button connects this logic signal to pins 5 or 9, originally reserved for paddles.

 

For weak logic signal in single button or 2600 compatibility mode, the resistance drains the logic signal and the console receives a low input on pin 6. In strong logic mode for 2-button 7800 joysticks, the logic is stronger than the current sinking capability of the resistor, and the input on pin 6 remains high. If the strong logic signal on pin 6 is ever forced low by a traditional one button joystick shorting the pin to ground, the hardware will immediately revert to weak logic and one button compatibility mode. Herein lies the problem with placing an inline resistor on a custom 2600 stick. The 7800 console will not detect the signal from the fire button if it is outputting a strong logic signal on pin 6, as there is no way to pull this pin to low with an inline resistor present.

 

This is why I don't recommend placing an inline resistor on 2600 sticks (even if it does fix the random lines issue), due to the potential for compatibility issues with 7800 consoles and software.

 

However one possibility would be to add a very small capacitance (a few picofarads or so) between pins 8 and 6 of the joystick port. Depending on how much current the console pulls from the internal pullups would determine how quickly the cap charges. It may help mitigate contact bounce however (which might be why the lines effect is seen in the TIA output). Suppose a small value cap is placed across the pins at the controller port, when FIRE is pressed, the cap discharges through the switch, and likewise charges after the contact is released, hopefully for a long enough duration to suppress any negative effects caused by contact bounce on the FIRE pin. Since only a handful of consoles are affected by this issue, the fix could be placed inside the console rather than the controller.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a console that would be capable of testing this solution since the TIA in my 4-switch doesn't suffer from this issue. I'm also not sure what range of values should be used either. The smallest size that corrects the issue I think would be wise to use. I'd start with 10pF and go up by powers of ten, ie 100pF, .001uF, .01uF, and finally try .1uF to see if that resolves the issue. I think anything above .1uF would be entirely too large. The power filter "Chicklet" caps on the sixers are .22uF, and 4-switch Ataris use .1uF.

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The 7800 controllers used resistors tied to the paddle inputs. I mentioned to you in a PM that adding an inline 620 ohm resistor to the fire button of a 2600 controller (without access to the paddle pins) might cause the custom 2600 stick to malfunction if connected to 7800 hardware. If the game is expecting two button controllers, it outputs a strong logic high signal on pin 6 which is designed to override the ~620 inline resistance inside a 7800 controller. Pressing a button connects this logic signal to pins 5 or 9, originally reserved for paddles.

 

For weak logic signal in single button or 2600 compatibility mode, the resistance drains the logic signal and the console receives a low input on pin 6. In strong logic mode for 2-button 7800 joysticks, the logic is stronger than the current sinking capability of the resistor, and the input on pin 6 remains high. If the strong logic signal on pin 6 is ever forced low by a traditional one button joystick shorting the pin to ground, the hardware will immediately revert to weak logic and one button compatibility mode. Herein lies the problem with placing an inline resistor on a custom 2600 stick. The 7800 console will not detect the signal from the fire button if it is outputting a strong logic signal on pin 6, as there is no way to pull this pin to low with an inline resistor present.

 

This is why I don't recommend placing an inline resistor on 2600 sticks (even if it does fix the random lines issue), due to the potential for compatibility issues with 7800 consoles and software.

Thanks, but unfortunately I don't speak Electrician so that was all about 5 miles over my head. All I know for certain is that the Edladdin arcade stick worked fine but the one you did the wiring on (and the Suncom TAC-2) caused lines of interference to appear on the screen when the fire button was pressed. I won't pretend to understand the physics behind it, I just know what the results were.

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Thanks, but unfortunately I don't speak Electrician so that was all about 5 miles over my head. All I know for certain is that the Edladdin arcade stick worked fine but the one you did the wiring on (and the Suncom TAC-2) caused lines of interference to appear on the screen when the fire button was pressed. I won't pretend to understand the physics behind it, I just know what the results were.

It's definitely something to do with the TIA chip in certain Atari units.

 

I believe it's caused by contact bounce, but have no way of confirming it without a scope or logic analyzer. The series resistors in the Eladdin 7800 controllers (or any custom wired 7800 controller) are likely sufficient to filter the "bounce" signal. I added an idea for a fix to the above post (a small capacitor between Fire and Ground) but I have no way of testing it as my hardware is not affected.

 

I would imagine any custom built direct wired 2600 microswitch joystick would exhibit the same issues on problem consoles. It is plausible the dome switches in vintage controllers might have a very small series resistance or stray capacitance that may indeed filter out any signal "bounce" resulting in issues you have on your console.

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I have an oddball question. I have a NT Mini. It was originally designed to be a high end NES clone. That means it has 4 NES controller ports on the front. The system has been jail broken and has cores for the A2600 and A7800. Wondering if it is possible to convert A2600 paddles to a NES connector. Or even an adapter. Would it be difficult? I know there would be a niche market for this.

Edited by Sneakyturtleegg

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I have an oddball question. I have a NT Mini. It was originally designed to be a high end NES clone. That means it has 4 NES controller ports on the front. The system has been jail broken and has cores for the A2600 and A7800. Wondering if it is possible to convert A2600 paddles to a NES connector. Or even an adapter. Would it be difficult? I know there would be a niche market for this.

I'm sure it's possible, but the circuit for the nes vs atari controller are completely different. You are better off playing with the controllers that are compatible with it already.

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Ordered one this week. Cant wait to give it a spin!

 

I know this is a bizarre question, have you ever considered a player 1 and 2 in one pad design? Games like Robotron and Indiana Jones would be so much better on a twin stick design, Ive always wanted to see a Virtual Boy pad controller wired to the player one and two ports for the games that required a setup like that.

 

I know, its silly, but a guy can dream.

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I know this is a bizarre question, have you ever considered a player 1 and 2 in one pad design? Games like Robotron and Indiana Jones would be so much better on a twin stick design

Yes I have, i'm just not entirely sure I personally could pull it off. It would need to be a simplified xbox/ps controller. I can do this with an snes controller where the 4-buttons can act like a directional pad, but it is not real comfortable. dual d-pads or toggles would do the trick. I personally couldn't afford get custom shells made, ATM i just get NES controller shells in black and slightly mod them(aftermarket shells are not identical OEM).

I would have to confirm 100s in preordered to cover the thousands of dollars to manufacture. This next batch of controllers are going to be fully assembled from the factory, and that cost a fortune.

See for real world costs: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/271862-brand-new-atari-jaguar-pro-controllers-production-campagin/page-1

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Will you have any more of the pcbs for sale? Or at this point are you only doing fully assembled controllers?

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