Budget Atari and Capcom arcade cabinets to see release this fall!

[keepdreamin]

LCD display always makes me think of one thing. LAG. I hope someone does some thorough testing.

 

 

If they're using just basic LCD panels, lag shouldn't be an issue. Have you ever used a LCD computer monitor with noticeable lag? I can't say I've ever come across one. Lag with LCDs is usually an HDTV thing, with manufacturers adding in extra processing gizmos. If there is lag with these, I'd be more inclined to look at what they're using to run the games. Probably some sort of emulator rig.

[Asaki]

Yes, the lag is from video up-scaling processing in most HDTVs. Wireless controllers can add to the lag, as well.

[negative1]

i swear, it is just me, or does every image i see of these machines make them look smaller and smaller.

 

these things don't look that much bigger than those tabletop bar models

 

these things look tiny, even with the riser, maybe they have be twice that to be actual level.

(i'm not tall, just average height).

 

 

 

i'll admit the 1 foot hight replicade models are more accurate looking, but i could never

play centipede or tempest on those. and those do fit on top of a desk.

 

 

later

-1

Edited August 5, 2018 by negative1

[John Stamos Mullet]

 

that's an awful lot of work, why not just build your own cabinet thats not 4 feet high, and get the decals, etc to make it 'more real'.

 

something sturdier and would probably last longer than this.

 

---

it sounds like you want to supplement whats currently on it with your own add ons, but you would probably need some kind of video switcher for the monitor.

 

also the cabling could be tricky trying to move the trackball out of the way for a joystick,.

--

 

x-arcade has a joystick trackball combination, and a standalone joystick, but i have issues with that company, and have boycotted them forever,

and would never recommend them to anyone. (worst customer service ever, if you have a problem).

 

later

-1

this costs $300.

 

Building something sturdier would be much more expensive, and much more work.

 

3 sheets of top quality 3/4 plywood: $80

Various other lumber to hold it together: $25

Coarse thread drywall screws: $10

4 cans of black spray paint: $20

Rubber feet: $10

Custom printed 60 decals for both sides, marquee, and control panel: $150

Plexiglass Marquis cover:$15

19 LCD 4x3 screen: $50

X-arcade tankstick: $100

Happ trackball: $80

Jamma harness: $20

J-pac board:$60

 

So were at $610 and. Havent built it yet or included a laptop or raspberry pi.

 

This would be a great project, for sure. But it would be way more expensive, and require a ton more work.

 

Even if I bought a dead real Arcade cab already built on eBay from a local person, it would be minimum $500

[negative1]

this costs $300.

 

Building something sturdier would be much more expensive, and much more work.

 

3 sheets of top quality 3/4 plywood: $80

Various other lumber to hold it together: $25

Coarse thread drywall screws: $10

4 cans of black spray paint: $20

Rubber feet: $10

Custom printed 60 decals for both sides, marquee, and control panel: $150

Plexiglass Marquis cover:$15

19 LCD 4x3 screen: $50

X-arcade tankstick: $100

Happ trackball: $80

Jamma harness: $20

J-pac board:$60

 

So were at $610 and. Havent built it yet or included a laptop or raspberry pi.

 

This would be a great project, for sure. But it would be way more expensive, and require a ton more work.

 

Even if I bought a dead real Arcade cab already built on eBay from a local person, it would be minimum $500

 

i think you could get a cheaper used cabinet, i've seen a few in the $200-$300 range,

 

and there's this one, if you're ok, with the cabaret size ones:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Easy-to-Assemble-2p-Cabaret-Arcade-Cabinet-Kit-w-marquee-holder-HAPP-style/223087827168?hash=item33f11218e0%3Ag%3AgmwAAOSwfN5a2jlq&_sop=15&_pgn=4&_nkw=arcade+game+cabinet&_from=R40&rt=nc

 

for about $350 (including shipping in the US).

 

but yes, getting the artwork, controls, screen, etc will push that up more. but still would be cheaper than what you quoted overall.

 

the spare computer wouldn't be hard to come buy as they are relatively cheap also.

 

for twice the cost of the premade ones, its still something i would consider, and i'm not even that good at putting things together.

 

i do own 1 real arcade cabinet (blasteroids), so i do appreciate the size, and build quality of the real thing. i got it a bargain price of $600 near mint.

but of course, its a dedicated machine that won't be modified.

 

later

-1

Edited August 5, 2018 by negative1

[negative1]

some more possible information on the machines, concerning their hardware, and software,

which seems proprietary:

 

 

later

-1

[Rodney Hester]

Looking at the enclosure more closely, I'm more convinced than ever this is going to be a RPi in sheep's clothing with a breakout cable to the LCD display and speakers. We shall see, of course, but the size (assuming it's to scale in the video) and the way the pinouts are dressed looks very...familiar.

 

If they are using the arcade ROMs, there's also now a 100% chance that it's software emulation, and that pretty much comes down to a modified MAME or modified Final Burn Alpha. Both share the MAME license, which strictly forbids commercial use, so it's going to be an interesting situation indeed if they spent the money to properly license the art and ROMs but the emulator itself turns out to be illegal. (Yes, I'm aware they _could_ have independently clean-room developed several dozen different emulators to support their product line on their own, over a period of years of highly secretive development that literally nobody ever tattled about on the Internet even once, despite being one of the most noteworthy developments of the past decade. Then again, monkeys _could_ fly out of my butt.)

 

It'd be quite nice if the actual developers (note: NOT the company doing the marketing!) would provide some concrete information...but if my educated suspicion is right, they *really* can't, or their entire business model evaporates in an instant. *sigh*

Edited August 6, 2018 by Rodney Hester

[keepdreamin]

Well it's a given they'll be using roms and emulation. I'd be more surprised if they weren't .

[PlaysWithWolves]

Looking at the enclosure more closely, I'm more convinced than ever this is going to be a RPi in sheep's clothing with a breakout cable to the LCD display and speakers. We shall see, of course, but the size (assuming it's to scale in the video) and the way the pinouts are dressed looks very...familiar.

 

If they are using the arcade ROMs, there's also now a 100% chance that it's software emulation, and that pretty much comes down to a modified MAME or modified Final Burn Alpha. Both share the MAME license, which strictly forbids commercial use, so it's going to be an interesting situation indeed if they spent the money to properly license the art and ROMs but the emulator itself turns out to be illegal. (Yes, I'm aware they _could_ have independently clean-room developed several dozen different emulators to support their product line on their own, over a period of years of highly secretive development that literally nobody ever tattled about on the Internet even once, despite being one of the most noteworthy developments of the past decade. Then again, monkeys _could_ fly out of my butt.)

 

It'd be quite nice if the actual developers (note: NOT the company doing the marketing!) would provide some concrete information...but if my educated suspicion is right, they *really* can't, or their entire business model evaporates in an instant. *sigh*

 

 

Just to clear this up: Tastemakers, LLC was formed in 2011. So, it's possible they've been working on it longer than we know.

 

Until the units ship I guess you can believe them or not, but they say it's proprietary hardware running the original ROMS:

 

Arcade 1up Official

‏@arcade_1up

Replying to @mrjaytee74

We developed our own proprietary hardware to read the original arcade ROMs

[Asaki]

If they are using the arcade ROMs, there's also now a 100% chance that it's software emulation, and that pretty much comes down to a modified MAME or modified Final Burn Alpha.

All of the games announced have been emulated on various consoles, computers, and handhelds before, and to the best of my knowledge, were not using MAME.

 

But of course, since the source is open, there's nothing to stop "clean room" situations (even if they sometimes aren't as clean as they should be).

 

I'm sure it's a lot easier when you've got a group of games that all use similar hardware, rather than something like MAME itself with thousands of different games to support.

[Rodney Hester]

 

 

Just to clear this up: Tastemakers, LLC was formed in 2011. So, it's possible they've been working on it longer than we know.

 

 

 

Near as I can tell, Tastemakers/Wish Factory doesn't make anything, it's just a marketer/retailer. It's the developers I'm interested in hearing from.

[Rodney Hester]

All of the games announced have been emulated on various consoles, computers, and handhelds before, and to the best of my knowledge, were not using MAME.

 

But of course, since the source is open, there's nothing to stop "clean room" situations (even if they sometimes aren't as clean as they should be).

 

I'm sure it's a lot easier when you've got a group of games that all use similar hardware, rather than something like MAME itself with thousands of different games to support.

 

re: being done before - yes, so long as your name is Jeff Vavasour, whose pioneering work made *all* of those possible. There's a lengthy history page here:

 

http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/trs80/mirrors/www.vavasour.ca/jeff/games.html

 

Doing it clean-room - and working through all of the interesting quirks the various machines had while getting it right - would require *considerable* emulation experience...and so far nobody's stepped up to claim it (and Jeff has said explicitly it isn't him).

 

Agree that doing multiple games from a single driver is easier, certainly - but there's at least nine of those at play so far based on the announced games, hence my incredulity that they developed this on their own in a vacuum.

[Flojomojo]

In the video that negativeone posted, the speaker claims the software is proprietary, not Android, not Linux, not Raspberry Pi ...but without evidence, just the say-so of the company.

I'd bet it's a given this this running some Linux variant. I doubt it's a Pi, that's not the only cheap SOC in the world, thorough it is a popular one. I agree with the speaker that it will be hacked open soon enough.

The claims that uses "original controls" is disproven just by looking at it. We'll see how faithful it is with speed and accuracy soon enough. Again, $299 is the price so it's pretty cool these exist at all. I think I'd prefer just the game unit and some nice controls (use your own screen, no cabinet) to minimize cost and bulk. Hopefully the market will swing that way eventually.

As for proprietary emulators? That doesn't seem so far fetched to me. We know some of the best ones, but that's not representative of the entire universe of people who can make this kind of software. It's not as if Jeff V is the only one in the world who can write an emulator for an old game machine.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Yeah - arcade games being emulated on Home consoles by non-MAME proprietary coded emulation has existed for quite some time now. The assumption that any/all Arcade emulation is based on illegally used open source code sounds more like argument bait, than anything based in reality.

[PlaysWithWolves]

The claims that uses "original controls" is disproven just by looking at it. We'll see how faithful it is with speed and accuracy soon enough. Again, $299 is the price so it's pretty cool these exist at all. I think I'd prefer just the game unit and some nice controls (use your own screen, no cabinet) to minimize cost and bulk. Hopefully the market will swing that way eventually.

 

Yeah, their website claims "Authentic Arcade Joysticks, Trackballs, Buttons & Sounds". Really all of the controls are factory knock-offs ostensibly built to try to reach those specs.

 

Tweet 1:

 

Arcade 1up Official

@arcade_1up

Aug 3

 

We had our factory create our own buttons instead of using a brand-name. We asked them to replicate the original arcade specs as closely as possible, and worked with our licensing partners to make sure they look and feel authentic.

 

Tweet 2:

 

Arcade 1up Official

@arcade_1up

Aug 3

 

We made our own sticks and asked our factory to follow exact original arcade specifications. We worked closely with the original game developers to make sure they are as authentic as possible.

[Austin]

 

Yeah, their website claims "Authentic Arcade Joysticks, Trackballs, Buttons & Sounds". Really all of the controls are factory knock-offs ostensibly built to try to reach those specs.

 

Tweet 1:

 

 

Tweet 2:

 

 

Great. This tells me this thing is going to be junk.

[Rodney Hester]

Yeah - arcade games being emulated on Home consoles by non-MAME proprietary coded emulation has existed for quite some time now. The assumption that any/all Arcade emulation is based on illegally used open source code sounds more like argument bait, than anything based in reality.

 

Yeah...I'm not sure I'd go that far. Let's take a quick look at actual history:

 

- Ultracade: Turned out to be stolen MAME code running unlicensed ROMs, despite manufacturer claims

 

- Retrocade: Again stolen MAME code, again lied about

 

Now the releases over the past 15 years that were actually legal, licensed, quality kit:

 

<crickets>

 

So I'm not really trying to pick on Arcade 1UP! in particular, I'm just looking for any reason *not* to believe that they are just another in a long line of companies peddling fraudulent gear hoping to grab their coin before they are caught...and so far, I haven't seen much evidence to support it except very vague claims that could mean pretty much anything.

 

As for the earlier statement that well, hell, _anyone_ can write an emulator and *poof* there's a product...yeah, but no. There's literally about a dozen people on the planet with those skills, and I know all of them. It's a VERY small community. Lots of contributors, granted, but *VERY* few that can bring something completely from scratch from the ground up in a reasonable amount of time with commercial-level quality. This isn't a garage-coding opportunity, it's a business, and if nothing else I'm supremely confident that Tastemakers understands that. They had to bring this product to market quickly without investing many millions in development costs...so you either buy off-the-shelf, pay an expert to get 'er done *fast*, or you steal. Those really are the only three choices. Given there's nothing to buy off-the-shelf that's available for licensing, that leaves only two options.

 

Folks, I'm not exactly a neophyte in this industry. My concerns are legitimate. I want this to be real just as much as any of you, but not enough to believe in unicorns. Bringing arcade quality to the home for $300 and still making enough profit to bother? Great. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, because nobody else *in the history of the marketplace* has been able to pull it off. Ever.

 

The most novel thing about their approach honestly is the IKEA-style flat-packing and self-construction...but that's not enough to convince me that it's a viable _and legal/licensed_ business model. Most of you don't care, and that's OK - you just want your game, and I hope you get it! I'm a shark, so I'm looking at it a bit differently.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Rodney Hester

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Yeah...I'm not sure I'd go that far. Let's take a quick look at actual history:

 

- Ultracade: Turned out to be stolen MAME code running unlicensed ROMs, despite manufacturer claims

 

- Retrocade: Again stolen MAME code, again lied about

 

Now the releases over the past 15 years that were actually legal, licensed, quality kit:

 

<crickets>

 

So I'm not really trying to pick on Arcade 1UP! in particular, I'm just looking for any reason *not* to believe that they are just another in a long line of companies peddling fraudulent gear hoping to grab their coin before they are caught...and so far, I haven't seen much evidence to support it except very vague claims that could mean pretty much anything.

 

As for the earlier statement that well, hell, _anyone_ can write an emulator and *poof* there's a product...yeah, but no. There's literally about a dozen people on the planet with those skills, and I know all of them. It's a VERY small community. Lots of contributors, granted, but *VERY* few that can bring something completely from scratch from the ground up in a reasonable amount of time with commercial-level quality. This isn't a garage-coding opportunity, it's a business, and if nothing else I'm supremely confident that Tastemakers understands that. They had to bring this product to market quickly without investing many millions in development costs...so you either buy off-the-shelf, pay an expert to get 'er done *fast*, or you steal. Those really are the only three choices. Given there's nothing to buy off-the-shelf that's available for licensing, that leaves only two options.

 

Folks, I'm not exactly a neophyte in this industry. My concerns are legitimate. I want this to be real just as much as any of you, but not enough to believe in unicorns. Bringing arcade quality to the home for $300 and still making enough profit to bother? Great. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, because nobody else *in the history of the marketplace* has been able to pull it off. Ever.

 

The most novel thing about their approach honestly is the IKEA-style flat-packing and self-construction...but that's not enough to convince me that it's a viable _and legal/licensed_ business model. Most of you don't care, and that's OK - you just want your game, and I hope you get it! I'm a shark, so I'm looking at it a bit differently.

 

I am not going to discuss sources, but they did have custom emulation work done (I don't know what the hardware underlying it is, though) and they have legally licensed what games they have.

 

I don't think this price point is outrageous, although I do think margins are likely quite thin. With that said, I do know that they have an unusually high production run for these and the backing of the right retailers, so they're definitely benefiting from volume here. We're not talking tens of thousands of units here in small runs, but considerably more than that.

 

Whether or not the inexpensive panels, inexpensive controls, and inexpensive hardware are going to deliver a suitable experience, we'll just have to see. Early reports have been positive and early reports from people I trust to know well enough. I'm sure this won't be suitable for a certain core audience amongst us - nothing ever is, really - but they can, for whatever reason only known to them, modify it to their heart's content (although I think there are better ways to get shells, particularly considering how tiny these are).

 

There are other companies exploring this area as well, so this may very well be the start of a mini trend in arcade cabinets of various sizes over the next few years. I'm frankly happy we're moving away from the fairly attractive, but mostly unusable, mini tabletop units that have done well at retail in the past few years. Technology, flat panels, retail desire, etc., are finally all in place for these larger machines to be both practical and inexpensive.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Folks, I'm not exactly a neophyte in this industry. My concerns are legitimate. I want this to be real just as much as any of you, but not enough to believe in unicorns. Bringing arcade quality to the home for $300 and still making enough profit to bother? Great. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, because nobody else *in the history of the marketplace* has been able to pull it off. Ever.

Every home gaming console since the PS1 has had numerous releases of Arcade emulation software, none of which used MAME or any other stolen/illegally used code, and all of which were backed and fully licensed by the original IP holders.

 

There are literally dozens of variants of genuine Atari, Namco, Capcom, etc. Arcade game emulation softwares available, completely legally. Shit, my damn iPhone legally emulates a ton of non-MAME, completely legitimate arcade game emulation variants.

 

The only difference here is they are providing joysticks, buttons, trackballs, an LCD screen, and a lovely fall-a-particle board container for it.

[negative1]

all the atari ports of recent on the consoles could probably be modified, or maybe licensed.

 

digital eclipse has done a lot of pc ports that might be able to be ported to other platforms.

 

mame is not the end all be all, but it is a common starting point.

 

later

-1

[Rodney Hester]

Every home gaming console since the PS1 has had numerous releases of Arcade emulation software, none of which used MAME or any other stolen/illegally used code, and all of which were backed and fully licensed by the original IP holders.

 

There are literally dozens of variants of genuine Atari, Namco, Capcom, etc. Arcade game emulation softwares available, completely legally. Shit, my damn iPhone legally emulates a ton of non-MAME, completely legitimate arcade game emulation variants.

 

The only difference here is they are providing joysticks, buttons, trackballs, an LCD screen, and a lovely fall-a-particle board container for it.

 

I'm going to take it as read that you completely ignored the entire remainder of my post (where I even identified the author of those emulators you are referring to, and represent the only arcade emulation offshoot that _didn't_ leverage MAME other than some Aaron Giles work), but it's of no import, as there's literally nothing more to be said on the subject without a teardown.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Rodney Hester

[PlaysWithWolves]

Sold out before we even knew it was a thing, here: Arcade 1Up Arcade Machine - Deluxe Edition 12 Atari Games with Riser ($499).

 

It has both Centipede and Asteroids art.

From the pictures:

 

Asteroids, Centipede, Major Havoc, Missile Command, Lunar Lander, Crystal Castles, Tempest, Millipede, Gravitar, Liberator, Asteroids Deluxe, Super Breakout*.

 

*One picture shows Breakout instead of Super Breakout

 

 

 

[PlaysWithWolves]

 

Great. This tells me this thing is going to be junk.

 

I'm not sure if I was fair with "knock-off", which implies reverse-engineering. I guess they could've gotten actual specs and went with those.

 

Here's a tweet from today:

 

Arcade 1up Official

@arcade_1up

 

Replying to @GaminGeorge

We made our own. We asked the factory to build them to original arcade specs.

 

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Rodney Hester]

Sold out before we even knew it was a thing, here: Arcade 1Up Arcade Machine - Deluxe Edition 12 Atari Games with Riser ($499).

 

It has both Centipede and Asteroids art.

From the pictures:

 

Asteroids, Centipede, Major Havoc, Missile Command, Lunar Lander, Crystal Castles, Tempest, Millipede, Gravitar, Liberator, Asteroids Deluxe, Super Breakout*.

 

*One picture shows Breakout instead of Super Breakout

 

9649533.01.big1.jpg

 

 

 

Huh - from a control perspective, what an odd collection of games to combine into a single cab.

 

Where's the spinner?

[PlaysWithWolves]

.Where's the spinner?

 

It's on the far right. It's more obvious on some of the other pictures.