Is a MiST worth it?

[Newsdee]

They are the same. The MiST 1.3 with MIDI ports are all made by Lotharek.

[Newsdee]

By the way some core development for the MiST is still going on:

 

- The CPC core is still seeing updates

- a Vectrex core just came out

- a russian computer clone also came out (Robotron something, unrelated to the arcade game)

[Austin]

Has anyone tried the MiST through an OSSC? That has a VGA port built into it. A MiST is really tempting to me as I can't see myself owning many of these machines any time soon due to cost reasons (Amiga and MSX in particular), and buying software for my Atari ST isn't cheap either.

[Newsdee]

Has anyone tried the MiST through an OSSC? That has a VGA port built into it. A MiST is really tempting to me as I can't see myself owning many of these machines any time soon due to cost reasons (Amiga and MSX in particular), and buying software for my Atari ST isn't cheap either.

I use mine with an XRGB Framemeister to upscale to 1080p and it works fine.

[Bill Loguidice]

I use mine with an XRGB Framemeister to upscale to 1080p and it works fine.

 

What do you put between the Framemeister and the MIST?

[Newsdee]

What do you put between the Framemeister and the MIST?

Good point, forgot to mention it.

 

I use the Sync Strike from ArcadeForge to go from VGA into SCART, then use a custom EURO SCART cable for the XRGB (not the JP21 cable that comes with it)

 

Turns out the XRGB accepts both 15khz and 31khz signals fine (basically 240p and 480p for NTSC). I got the idea from reading Dreamcast forums that used a similar setup.

 

The MiST can provide both resolutions with a config setting. Some cores run at PAL (50hz) and others at NTSC (60hz) standards. The XRGB handles all of them fine, upscaling to 1080p at 60hz.

 

The OSSC should work for upscaling, but note that it won't convert a 50hz signal into 60hz for lack of framebuffer memory.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Newsdee

[Bill Loguidice]

Good point, forgot to mention it.

 

I use the Sync Strike from ArcadeForge to go from VGA into SCART, then use a custom EURO SCART cable for the XRGB (not the JP21 cable that comes with it)

 

 

Thanks. Fortunately I have all of that stuff save for the Sync Strike (although it doesn't look very plug and play friendly and doesn't even come with a power adapter). The lack of VGA input is the only thing really missing from the XRGB-mini.

[phoenixdownita]

Good point, forgot to mention it.

 

I use the Sync Strike from ArcadeForge to go from VGA into SCART, then use a custom EURO SCART cable for the XRGB (not the JP21 cable that comes with it)

 

Turns out the XRGB accepts both 15khz and 31khz signals fine (basically 240p and 480p for NTSC). I got the idea from reading Dreamcast forums that used a similar setup.

 

The MiST can provide both resolutions with a config setting. Some cores run at PAL (50hz) and others at NTSC (60hz) standards. The XRGB handles all of them fine, upscaling to 1080p at 60hz.

 

The OSSC should work for upscaling, but note that it won't convert a 50hz signal into 60hz for lack of framebuffer memory.

 

How do you combine Hsync Vsync into CSYNC?

[i already have an inline LM-1881 in a scart extender that I regularly use with my XRGB mini when I play NeoGeo on it]

 

 

Nevermind:

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2rgbs.html

a simple XOR circuit with a couple of resistors.

 

or even:

http://www.nexusuk.org/projects/vga2scart/circuit

[Newsdee]

How do you combine Hsync Vsync into CSYNC?

[i already have an inline LM-1881 in a scart extender that I regularly use with my XRGB

That's the job of the sync strike:

http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html

Edited March 16, 2018 by Newsdee

[phoenixdownita]

That's the job of the sync strike:

http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/Sync-Strike::15.html

I just wanted to know in order to make my own.

I did not know the XRGB Mini RGB input accepts a 31KHz signal.

I believe that the sync strike makes you select if you have H/V (that it needs to combine via the XOR) or composite (that it needs to strip via the LM1881) as sync input and it always outputs CSYNC

The LM1881 is a 1$ piece and I suspect the XOR is even cheaper .... and it makes it for a fun project one of these days.

[Newsdee]

Another option, if you look in the forums, is to use a special mode with a custom circuit to output component video (YPbPr):

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=31006&start=50#p325928

 

In the same thread somebody also made a fully generic RGB to component converter (some posts after the link above). There are many video options

Edited March 17, 2018 by Newsdee

[Austin]

The OSSC should work for upscaling, but note that it won't convert a 50hz signal into 60hz for lack of framebuffer memory.

 

Thanks for the info. I am going to heavily consider getting one of these then. I have a OSSC and a Framemeister, so worst-case scenario I can run one into the other if problems arise using the OSSC by itself.

[Paranoid]

Have you seen the MiSTer project? It's kind of a sucessor with HDMI and network capabilities for the file system. You don't get it in a nice metal box, but it's very nice to use and has a much larger FPGA (110K LE vs 25K LE ifthe MiST).

 

Many MiST cores were ported, and it has a PC (486) core that can run DOS games.

 

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

 

Edit: I just read the rest of OP's post

 

The real joystick ports can be easily replaced with a USB adapter for Genesis. There are even some with 2 ports.

 

Also to get a MiSTer you just start with a board sold by Terasic, and then get a memory expansion board, for example from here:

https://www.cbmstuff.com/products.php?cat=3

 

The other board (I/O) is only needed if you care about VGA and other options. You can get it later.

With the DE10-Nano kit going for $130, then $59 for the DE-10 Super expansion board - before shipping, the difference in price isn't hugely less than the $263 USD for a complete MIST from Lotharek.

 

A Raspberry Pi running RetroPie on the other hand, can be put together for significantly less than $100.

 

 

 

[+remowilliams]

The MiST's time has come and gone, but the MiSTer now is a fantastic deal with the explosion in development that's happened for it.

[Paranoid]

I see comments like this on the MIST Facebook group:

Roberto Lari

January 14 at 5:42 AM

Anyone is afraid that Mist / Mistica are dead cause Mister? 4 new cores and 1 new firmware in these 11 first days of 2019, i tell that they are more alive than never :

D

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I suppose you could always just buy both. I see the MIST as convenient because it is already put together, it has two DB9 ports, built in Midi Ports, and actually supports CRTs directly. MISTer seems like something between MIST and RetroPie to me - as far as what is required to get it up and running. I'll probably pick up a MISTer at some point, too.

Why:D

[Paranoid]

I had no idea the MiSTer was so simple, so I went ahead and bought the board and the SDRAM expansion. I had assumed that it required soldering.

Did you ever buy the Mister, Zetastrike?

[youxia]

What are the new cores?

[Laner]

 

I see comments like this on the MIST Facebook group:

 

Roberto Lari

January 14 at 5:42 AM

Anyone is afraid that Mist / Mistica are dead cause Mister? 4 new cores and 1 new firmware in these 11 first days of 2019, i tell that they are more alive than never :

D

 

 

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I suppose you could always just buy both. I see the MIST as convenient because it is already put together, it has two DB9 ports, built in Midi Ports, and actually supports CRTs directly. MISTer seems like something between MIST and RetroPie to me - as far as what is required to get it up and running. I'll probably pick up a MISTer at some point, too.

 

 

Why:D

 

 

 

 

The MiSTer is a bit more on the hobbyist side of things compared to the MiST. I have a DE-10 board ready to go, but haven't been terribly motivated to get MiSTer up and running on it, because the MiST does a great job as it is, and is more plug-and-play friendly.

 

The thing that may sway me to the MiSTer (and its HDMI output) is that my VGA CRT seems to be dying.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Laner

[Paranoid]

I agree. I have a CRT lying around that will probably do the trick with MIST - and I think there is actually a certain positive to being able to plug it into a VGA CRT... the whole idea of recreating your retro experience on your 72" LED LCD kind of defeats the purpose to me, in a certain sense.

But... the long term viability of supporting MIST with VGA out that requires core-specific frequency compatible displays... when MISTer supports HDMI... makes MISTer easier to support moving forward.

[Newsdee]

With the DE10-Nano kit going for $130, then $59 for the DE-10 Super expansion board - before shipping, the difference in price isn't hugely less than the $263 USD for a complete MIST from Lotharek.

 

A Raspberry Pi running RetroPie on the other hand, can be put together for significantly less than $100.

 

If cost is an issue you can skip the IO expansion board. And there are even some cores that will run without the SDRAM board. The total price for a MISTer that runs all cores would be around $160 plus shipping.

 

It is reasonably priced if you consider similar hardware is around $200+, such as fhe Retro AVS or Super NT.

 

I have all these five devices, I can tell you the RPi3 stays unused in a drawer as the other options are much easier to setup and have zero lag (except 1 frame for video upscaling). Meanwhile the RPi3 struggles with SNES emulation (for example).

Edited January 26, 2019 by Newsdee

[youxia]

I have all these five devices, I can tell you the RPi3 stays unused in a drawer as the other options are much easier to setup and have zero lag (except 1 frame for video upscaling). Meanwhile the RPi3 struggles with SNES emulation (for example).

 

RPi runs 90% of SNES games at full speed - I wouldn't call that "struggling". It's also about as hard to set up as burning an image to an SD and transfering some roms.

 

Of course, it has some lag (though it's nowhere near as bad as people like to paint it, especially if you use a CRT like me). But it's also a 50$ device, against 200$ cost of MiSTer. You can't really compare it to AVS or Super NT since these are single-core consoles. And multi-core NT Mini will set you back ~600$ these days.

 

I've been actually pondering buying MiSTer for quite some time now, but one of the things that was putting me off is the scarcity of info available. Can I use it with a CRT TV with no problems and total accuracy? What is an actual, precise state of compatibility for all cores? And so on. I also doubt it's all so easy to set up and control since it lacks the bells n' whistles of Emulationstation. And probably all the other quality-of-life things I can get through emulation such as save states, collections, favourites etc.

 

You're welcome to correct me/explain any of the above since like I said I'm still looking for info about this board, but thinks are definitely black and white regarding all these devices. All have some strong and weak points.

 

Ultimately though, I will probably end up with a mini-emu-PC, currently building one now though I know getting CRT Emudriver to work properly with everything may be a major PITA.

[Newsdee]

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the RPis and gave a chance to each version; the RPi3 is really great in performance for its price. The reason I don't use it for retro gaming is that it still feels like running a PC (to me)... and for that I can just use my main Windows machine.

 

Both MiST and MiSTer (with I/O board) support VGA (31khz), RGB (15khz), and Component (YPbPr) out via the same DE-15 plug. But not at the same time, obviously. You need to craft a small adapter cable for Component, but there are various existing 3rd party cables for RGB (e g. a breakout to BNC to plug into a PVM).

 

There is also MiSTICA, a MiST exact clone (meaning the same core binaries run) which adds Composite and SVideo out to the above. Only thing needed to activate this 15khz mode in all cases is to set a flag in an INI file at the root fo the SD card.

 

So connecting to a CRT is straightforward, no drivers are needed.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Newsdee

[Newsdee]

I can share my setup for the MiST and MiSter, albeit it can be a matter of taste.

 

For the MiST you format an SD card to FAT32, copy the core files to it and put ROM files in subfolders. You then rename one core to "core.rbf" so it gets picked up at boot (instant on - there is no OS). I have some SD cards with a single core and other cards contain a collection of cores. So I switch systems or group of systems by changing SD cards.

 

For MiSTer the SD can be setup like the above but it's a hassle to change MicroSD cards. So instead I have everything on a large SD card and my core.rbf is a "menu" core. I can update it via a shell script kicked off from within a telnet connection (and it grabs everything it needs from Github) and I can add ROMs to it via FTP. In other words I don't need to move the SD card any more. People are working on remote file access (e.g. grab ROMs from your PC) and some other features, but I haven't tried it yet.

 

Note that MiSTer runs a lightweight optimized Linux for "admin" tasks (like file data transfer) but you barely notice it as it starts in a second. The emulation proper and video output is done by the FPGA, so the OS does not get in the way of lag.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Newsdee

[Newsdee]

In terms of downside, the biggest one is that the emulation tech does not allow for save states. But it's the same with the Super NT and original hardware.

 

Another one is that it does not support any 3D console, so its bestvto assume it may only do pre-PS1 and pre-N64 emulation. That may change but there are no active project right now.

 

Emulation quality is superb though, it has improved a lot recently as more developers started contributing. Most console cores now support save RAM and various graphics filters for upscaling. The SNES core has just received Super FX support (with an option to overclock older games like Starfox), and a NeoGeo core is in active development with videos being posted of various games running.

[Austin]

Good bumps. Since I play strictly on HD displays now, the Mister seems like the better way to go for me. The more frequent active development for it helps too.