Old software still useful today?

[eightbit]

I use Paint Shop Pro 7 and install it on any new box I build. Also an old freeware version of spacemonger (all 212kb of it ) I still prefer over more advanced disk space visualizers. Heck I'll attach it here if anyone wants. Please note this is the old Freeware version before it became horrible horrible bloatware.

 

 

Jasc Paint Shop Pro 7 was and still is awesome. And amazing that SpaceMonger works in Win10!

[pacman000]

Apparently you can still buy dBASE: http://www.dbase.com

[thetick1]

Apparently you can still buy dBASE: http://www.dbase.com

 

It's not old software as it has been updated many times. It's a currently available commercial version. I think the intent was what software are you using that has not be been released for a long time.

[Keatah]

That's right. If dBase is to be included in this thread, it would have to be an old version from the DOS days. Not a modern update - because modern update is new all over again.

[Ed in SoDak]

I'm still using photoshop 2.5LE from '94, came free with a scanner. I have several newer versions, but stick with 2.5. No bloat, no layers nor fancy drag menus all over the place. Of course this means my whole Mac setup is pretty much retro itself. Also still using Findfile from System 8, even when we search the wife's MacBook Pro over wifi. AOL Press from '96 handles my websites. Pagemaker 5. And other abandonware for other tasks.

 

For writing, now that I'm not publishing newspapers or writing much about local history, TextEdit works fine or I have ClarisWorks for anything fancier. In the late 80's, we used Funlwriter on a TI99, an Osborne Model 1 with Wordstar and an Apple II clone (don't recall the WP) at the end of the chain that drove the Compugraphic phototypesetter. I wrote at home on the TI, put the files on a TI BBS, called it up from work on the Osborne and grabbed 'em as BBS text downloads. I could bang out a story on the TI's keyboard quicker than I could with any of the other systems, I was that used to it. Especially once I put the keyboard in it's own enclosure connected via ribbon cable. Even today I think I could type faster on that TI than I can on this Mac keyboard.

-Ed

[troff]

I had a version of PhotoShop from about that same time period that came with a scanner, too. I held on the CD and used it long after the scanner was gone. Somewhere along the way, I lost it. :-( I like it much better than the new versions, too.

 

I always felt I typed the fastest on the old IBM "clicky" (buckle-spring) keyboards. I'm not sure if I actually typed faster, but it sure sounded like I did!

[JamesD]

I think there's a lot of useful old software, it's just a question of if anyone's still using it.
As a programmer, almost everything I use is new... except the environment I use.
No matter how new the build is, a lot of the tools haven't changed.
Unix, Solaris, Linux, msys, cygwin... still pretty much the same as when I learned Unix in the 80s, except for things like make and the compiler.
Maybe that's not quite what you mean, but...

[Mad-Mike]

I use my old 486 for quite a bit of stuff using old software. Cakewalk 5 works great for DAW work still on a 486 DX4-100 (making simple demo tracks, not really for a full production, though it is possible), I use some old home designer program for arrangement work, and I still do pixel art using Graf-X II for DOS and Adventure Game STudio 2.3.1 to make games for DOS (though I never complete them for some reason), and I love to do a lot of writing in WP51 and DOS Edit for programming stuff. I also do NES ROM Hacking on that machine.

Going in the opposite direction, I use Nathan Lineback's modified version of Seamonkey for modern internet access on Windows 95 on the same machine, aside from things like social media and Youtube, it works pretty well, if a bit slow, even on broadband on a DX4-100.

[potatohead]

I use Paint Shop Pro 7 and install it on any new box I build. Also an old freeware version of spacemonger (all 212kb of it ) I still prefer over more advanced disk space visualizers. Heck I'll attach it here if anyone wants. Please note this is the old Freeware version before it became horrible horrible bloatware.

 

I love this program. You turned me onto it years ago. Thanks!

[thetick1]

Going in the opposite direction, I use Nathan Lineback's modified version of Seamonkey for modern internet access on Windows 95 on the same machine, aside from things like social media and Youtube, it works pretty well, if a bit slow, even on broadband on a DX4-100.

 

Using Window 95 with an internet connection is very dangerous these days. If you post our IP address from Windows 95 and you re not behind a NATed firewall I can be infected your OS with say want-a-cry in about 10-15 minutes. Seriously it is very easy to hack a Windows 95 OS. You really should use a recent FreeDOS or a modern Linux distribution build for 486.

Edited April 28, 2018 by thetick1

[Mad-Mike]

 

Using Window 95 with an internet connection is very dangerous these days. If you post our IP address from Windows 95 and you re not behind a NATed firewall I can be infected your OS with say want-a-cry in about 10-15 minutes. Seriously it is very easy to hack a Windows 95 OS. You really should use a recent FreeDOS or a modern Linux distribution build for 486.

 

Wannacry....on a 486....on Windows 95?!?! Don't make me laugh.

 

Wannacry was made for Windows NT based O/S and it's ransomware. What it does is holds your files hostage utilizing parts of the more robust Windows NT networking subsystem and closes any backdoors or ways to get around it. And resolving the issue is very easy - just reformat and reinstall. I know, I have removed wannacry from other machines (not my own). Every version of Windows on the mainstream market since Windows 2000 Professional has been NT based - prior to that, Windows NT was a BUSINESS/ENTERPRISE Operating system (Windows NT 4.0, 3.51, and 3.1) - once XP came out, NT became the main base for everything and pretty much has resembled Windows 2000/XP ever since for the most part. Windows Me, 9x, 3.1x, and DOS - all the stuff I run on those old boxes, are based off of DOS - which is a 16-bit, non multi-tasking, single-user, operating system, which from 95 back, is limited to 64MB of RAM - I'm using almost 100% of it surfing modern websites in Firefox 2 using HTTPS on such a system. Script hangs and issues with site rendering are pretty common on such a platform these days - so I can't imagine a virus or a bug would have an easy time.

 

Most virus makers don't focus on legacy 16 and 32-bit DOS based Windows anymore, and if they did, what's the benefit? The people running such O/S as their main would not have anything of value anyway, including money to scam out of them. The people running such O/S such as myself have the skillset to run it behind a NATed firewall or even sometimes use proxies and other security measures anyway. This is just a scare tactic used by the media to make you go out and buy more computers - playing into the hands of Microsoft and the Computer Manfuacterers - just like how car makers yank an engine from a 1950's car with no safety controls, do a crash test, and try to convince you your 20 year old vehicle is a death trap.

 

And don't get started on Spectre or Meltdown - I'm running a 486 for all this stuff - 486's are unable to be hit by either because they are a sequential processing CPU without all the pipelining and special features the Pentium instruction set introduced.

 

Plus what is someone going to do on such a system? Steal my Monkey Island? Pilfer my Freddy Pharkas? Acquire my Atari 2600 ROMS? Steal my Savegame ID's? LOL.

 

The only way you are at risk on such old hardware and software is if you carry-out financial transactions on it, which I don't as a rule for all of the obvious reasons stated above. I would never use such hardware for that and that's not why it's on my network in the first place, they are on there so they can pull files/data/whatever is needed or have it pushed to them, over the LAN/Internet - and none of it is something I'd be worried about someone malicious getting their hands on. Unless someone is really convinced there is something of value on a 25 year old computer running a 25 year old O/S that's 16-bit and uses a mostly different API, even if it is "open" - I'd say I'm pretty safe.

 

And lest we forget, the BIGGEST part of internet security is not visiting or downloading things that WOULD have a virus in the first place. I don't surf porn, I don't download warez, I don't go to shady websites that I've never been to before too often (when I need to what I use is all dependant on the possible risks that site may contain), so I'm safe. I also don't do e-mail on thos old boxes either (too much of a hassle).

 

FreeDOS won't work with modern HTTPS websites, and Linux is on my todo list - but not a major concern due to life events ATM putting the kabosh on any major efforts on my hobbyist retro PC thing ATM.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Mad-Mike

[+OLD CS1]

Agreed on several points except, for the millionth time, Windows 95 is not "DOS-based." This is discussed ad-naseum and even Wikipedia gets it right (last time I checked, anyway.)

 

That and aside from ransomware, most viruses which will attack your system really care nothing about what is on it, just that it has processing power and a broadband connection. Once infected your system can be controlled for DDoS attacks, transfer of illicit materials, and any number of things limited only to the imagination. DDoS using 486? Absolutely - it just takes a few packets to create a storm in a good reflection attack, some of which can produce traffic on the order of 100:1 or better.

 

Irrespective of your specific setup, far too many people plod around on the Internet without any protection like they have no care in the world because "nobody wants what I have," but that is nonsense on its face. Even if you have no data of value your computer is valuable because it can facilitate much worse against your neighbors or internal network. These days, even for browsing some high-end consumer products can do the same as SOHO/enterprise UTMs. Running otherwise is like being promiscuous with untreated herpes -- it may not bother you but you can totally fuck others.

[Mad-Mike]

Now think about that last argument you are making. So you are just assuming that anyone who uses an older system for some base level tasks and leisure is creating a security risk. Just like anything else, it's all in HOW you use the resources in question. I don't see how this became any sort of argument about internet security just based on a casual forum posting. Honestly, it's this kind of crap that has me thinking more and more about giving up being a part of any sort of "community" online, because people feel the need to get into an arguement about something that could be totally benign with a stranger. You must be the same kind of person whom complains about emissions when Mr. Jones drives his vintage Model T. around the block some sunny Sunday in July. I don't feel a need to justlfy myself or what I'm doing to you or anyone else on here. I'm also not going to argue about my setup on here any further than I already have - because that IS A security risk - it's like telling people everything about your kingdom's security force so they CAN find a loophole or a backdoor you did not think of to get in. I keep a pretty close watch on my network and I can catch most of what is going on and do have a good sense of when something is awry. I have only ever been compromised ONCE in fifteen years, and I solved that issue and closed that problem in less than a few minutes - and which machine did it come from? Not the 486, not the 286, not the 8088 - but from an old e-mail account I no longer have as a result (I closed it down, it was hotmail).

 

I've been working with these old machines for a long time and keep current on current tech, and I've heard every falsehood and complaint and worry in the book, I'm not buying it.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Mad-Mike

[thetick1]

 

Wannacry....on a 486....on Windows 95?!?! Don't make me laugh.

 

Go ahead and laugh all you like....

 

The old unpatched Samba 1.X protocol is used by want-a-cry to spread on ANY old computer running the protocol. Old Windows, OS/2, even Unix workstations running old unpatched samba servers or clients are vulnerable to spreading any file.. want-a-cry or even a new yet unknown virus! I'm not kidding. Do a little research before you spout out complete nonsense.

 

You can alternately disable the samba client in any of above machines by various methods. I believe Windows 95 has a registry option. I personally would experiment renaming the exec and see if Windows is then stable. I did this with an old OS/2 install I keep around. I removed the entire samba server and entire samba client on all my old Unix workstations.

 

Meltdown and Sceptre are only impacting processors with pre-fetch capabilities. Very old 32-bit Pentiums and pre-64bit Intel processors do NOT have pre-fetch capabilities in the hardware so they are obviously not impacted at all by Meltdown and Spectre. These two are just hype by the clueless and we are not likely to see any Meltdown or Sceptre exploits in the wild. (Total Meltdown though is serious but only MS 2008/Win7 bug). The Samba issue is much much worse than Meltdown and Spectre.

 

So even if you have a firewall (many have access exploits) and you do financial transactions from home then you have a huge security issue allowing a hacker to write files using of the old Samba 1.X protocol implemented on Windows 95. What if that file is say a new Windows virus binary that exploits the latest Windows 10 OS... hmmm. Just a few of these type security issues (firewall access, Samba 1.X, remote execution, elevated execution) used together in a network and your Windows 10 financial data is completely compromised.

 

By the way one aspect of my current job is security dispensation resolution so I know a little bit about the security issues. I have also helped deal with a few much more complex attacks against corporations where old unpatched Windows OSes and Samba 1.X were exploited. The NSA has provided much of the documation so these type of attacks can be easily scripted.

 

Anyway I warned you and I'm sorry you are too ignorant to understand the basic security issues in the wild. All you want to do is laugh and make fun of messenger. I guess sometimes it is better to just be naive. eh ?

Edited April 29, 2018 by thetick1

[+OLD CS1]

I've been working with these old machines for a long time and keep current on current tech, and I've heard every falsehood and complaint and worry in the book, I'm not buying it.

 

Que sera sera. I no longer work in mitigation or prevention because all of the money is in response, which also lacks the headaches, heartburn, ulcers, and hypertension. We are taking this topic off-rails.

[Mad-Mike]

 

Que sera sera. I no longer work in mitigation or prevention because all of the money is in response, which also lacks the headaches, heartburn, ulcers, and hypertension. We are taking this topic off-rails.

Precisely.

 

This is supposed to be a topic about us using old hardware for everyday tasks still - not a argument about internet security one of the posters machines. I feel a tad targeted.

[thetick1]

This is supposed to be a topic about us using old hardware for everyday tasks still - not a argument about internet security one of the posters machines. I feel a tad targeted.

 

Sorry but I feel anyone using old hardware and/or software should be educated about the risk! I'll mention the huge security threat to anyone that says they are using an old OS that comes preinstalled with a ancient samba implementation. You may be upset and feel targeted but if my comments prevent someone from infecting their network it's worth upsetting a few people like yourself who are naive or sensitive.

Edited April 29, 2018 by thetick1

[Keatah]

"Security" issues are way blown out of proportion in advertising. "Security" is constantly mis-used bait for getting the uninitiated to continually subscribe and upgrade and all that.

[thetick1]

"Security" issues are way blown out of proportion in advertising. "Security" is constantly mis-used bait for getting the uninitiated to continually subscribe and upgrade and all that.

 

It's not overblown at all if you lose all your data. Metdown and Spretre are way overblown as there are no known implementations in the wild. The Samba issue which gets much less press is far more dangers and has been used countless times in wild. It's often a part a larger attack orchestrated by tools to find and then use machine specific vulnerabilities in a large coordinated attack. WannaCry is a well known simple example.

Edited April 30, 2018 by thetick1

[JamesD]

We are talking about putting an old computer on the net. I have my doubts people will be using an old machine for something other than gaming.

[Keatah]

I just fixed some old fart's e-machine so he could get back on the net. Perhaps it could be classed as a "pre" e-machine.

 

And I have a motherboard made in like 1998 that I put on the net occasionally, but regularly.

[thetick1]

We are talking about putting an old computer on the net. I have my doubts people will be using an old machine for something other than gaming.

 

 

But how does one copy games or roms to your game machine... most likely your internal network using Samba. That is the danger and it very real unlike Meltdown or Spectre.

Edited May 1, 2018 by thetick1

[mr_me]

 

But how does one copy games or roms to your game machine... most likely your internal network using Samba. That is the danger and it very real unlike Meltdown or Spectre.

Are you saying if you block smb ports at the router/firewall you're still vulnerable to wanna cry?

 

If you disable smb you can still transfer files to old computers by ftp.

[Gamemoose]

I just fixed some old fart's e-machine so he could get back on the net. Perhaps it could be classed as a "pre" e-machine.

 

And I have a motherboard made in like 1998 that I put on the net occasionally, but regularly.

A couple years ago a very small client of mine still had a machine running Windows 3.11 and it was networked. It just didn't go on the Internet. They only used it to print mailing labels from a pair of computer controllable typewriters.

 

Yes you read that right.

[Keatah]

I have all the original software still loaded on my 486 restoration project (which is waiting on parts and 90% done).. I just put a network card in it. Can't wait to get it on the net. There's gotta be some sites that work with Netscape/Mosaic/IE1.