+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) I don't mean no disrespect to Yoomp, it's a great game and, like you say, a really nice 3D effect. But, we've had this exact discussion with emkay before that there's a huge difference in 3D engine features between Yoomp and, say, SRC. SRC has to do: World/View/Perspective Transformations Frustum culling Clipping Rasterizing lines Flatshading polygons Flying Physics in 3d coordinate system Features, that for obvious reasons, don't have to be done by Yoomp. Hence why I said pac-man (a short for the feature list above). Grammar alert: "I don't mean no"... I understand the differences. JFYI, Yoomp was originally supposed to be patterned after a STUN Runner type game called "Tube" for DOS (pretty cool game too). It was abandoned because they realised they'd need more than 64K and ended up doing Yoomp instead. Edited March 11, 2018 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 warning.png Grammar alert: "I don't mean no"... Well, but that's exactly how Americans use that phrase. It's probably the same error as "you're/your and should'of", I suppose. I'm sorry, but English is not my first, or second, or third or even fourth language. I speak 5 different languages fluently, 2 more on a basic/intermediate level, and 2 more I understand well enough to at least not get lost in those countries. Sometimes I thus pick up BS just the way it's used... JFYI, Yoomp was originally supposed to be patterned after a STUN Runner type game called "Tube" for DOS (pretty cool game too). It was abandoned because they realised they'd need more than 64K and ended up doing Yoomp instead. Interesting trivia ! Thanks! I'm familiar with Tube. I'd be very curious to see how it'd look if they used 128 KB. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 I'd be very curious to see how it'd look if they used 128 KB. It's even more curious how the ABBUC rules got wrong anytime. There never has been a limit to 64K for the whole Game. Programs that were intended to take part on the ABBUC Softwarecontest need to run on regular hardware. If the game needs 64K and 4 Disks that run fine from a 1050 Drive, could take part ... Yoomp! as itself is a milestone on the Atari. But, as shown on and on, development stalls at a changing point without any realistic reason. Be it caused on non interest to go further or just no idea for enhancements, or simply not capable coders at hand. Who knows? As Gunstar mentioned already... It is a hoax .... the hoax... of history that 3D looking games were boring slow and disregarded to 8 bit computers, the A8 could have been a "changer" as 3D looking games would have become playable. And this is shown many times. And SCR is a finalizing part of the indication for that. It is just ridiculous that games like Test Drive, Driller, (Mood) ... and so on , have not been 1st developed on the Hardware that was just defined for such stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Well, but that's exactly how Americans use that phrase. It's probably the same error as "you're/your and should'of", I suppose. It's a double negative... definitely commonly used. I use it myself sometimes, for the humor of it. I'm sorry, but English is not my first, or second, or third or even fourth language. I speak 5 different languages fluently, 2 more on a basic/intermediate level, and 2 more I understand well enough to at least not get lost in those countries. Sometimes I thus pick up BS just the way it's used... No problem, I'm half-joking. Impressive (5 languages+)... Yeah, try and pick up as little as possible from the uneducated side of America. Interesting trivia ! Thanks! I'm familiar with Tube. I'd be very curious to see how it'd look if they used 128 KB. It's too bad they didn't continue on with Tube later, but maybe they only had available time for one game and Yoomp was it (haven't seen any entries from them since). I can't remember for sure if it was true in 2007 (release year of Yoomp), but 128K has been acceptable in the ABBUC game/application competition for years now (since it still constitutes a stock machine). But even so, they may have wanted it to function on 64K machines just because. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Interesting trivia ! Thanks! I'm familiar with Tube. I'd be very curious to see how it'd look if they used 128 KB. Here's a thread where it talked about it a little: ABBUC 2007 Contest They also mention it on the Yoomp dev page: Yoomp - Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 It is just ridiculous that games like Test Drive, Driller, (Mood) ... and so on , have not been 1st developed on the Hardware that was just defined for such stuff. It's all about money and money politics. People gotta eat and live in houses and so forth. Hobbyist can do whatever they want, but then they don't always have so much time because they gotta spend a lotta time doing things so they can eat and live in houses, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 It's all about money and money politics. People gotta eat and live in houses and so forth. Hobbyist can do whatever they want, but then they don't always have so much time because they gotta spend a lotta time doing things so they can eat and live in houses, etc... Really? WOW? Didn't know Hey, back in the 80s, the Atari was the most sold computer line for that. Only after 1985 things changed. So, somehow people between 1979 and 1985 didn't make their daily job right. They preferred to listen to music and wanted to have more colors on the screen, just like LSD wasn't fun enough. The market for C64 really started after 1987, when the development of the C64's features had been used to a professional level. It's acutally easier to write 3D stuff on the Atari ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Really? WOW? Didn't know Hey, back in the 80s, the Atari was the most sold computer line for that. Only after 1985 things changed. So, somehow people between 1979 and 1985 didn't make their daily job right. They preferred to listen to music and wanted to have more colors on the screen, just like LSD wasn't fun enough. The market for C64 really started after 1987, when the development of the C64's features had been used to a professional level. It's acutally easier to write 3D stuff on the Atari ... Test Drive and Driller, etc. were not '79 - '85: so, I'm talking about why those games were done on the C64 instead of the Atari. They didn't write those things for the "easier to write 3D stuff" Atari because there weren't no (double negative ) money in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Test Drive and Driller, etc. were not '79 - '85: so, I'm talking about why those games were done on the C64 instead of the Atari. They didn't write those things for the "easier to write 3D stuff" Atari because there weren't no (double negative ) money in it. The point is that "Test Drive" could have been there in 1980, if thing had been on the "timeline" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Woulda, coulda, shoulda... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Woulda, coulda, shoulda... That'S exactly why we discuss things. At least SCR is no "Woulda, coulda, shoulda..." anymore. It's a fact, not even a evidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Discussing will only take things so far. Their hard work got the job done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Discussing will only take things so far. Their hard work got the job done. Some words from the Bible. John says, "In the beginning was the word...." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I was sure this thread was about Stunt car racer...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 It is - and then in the book of Crammond, it states, ".... and man hath now ye Stunt Car Racer". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Some words from the Bible. John says, "In the beginning was the word...." me prefer code... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I think the phrase is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I found some time to download this game and try it out. Looks great, nice 3D perspective. I wish more games were around back in the day that made use of the 130XE extended memory. Edited March 12, 2018 by peteym5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Some words from the Bible. John says, "In the beginning was the word...." It also says, "...faith without works is dead". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 me prefer code... The important words come in the form of comments in the code. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Does the last set of comments mean some need to pray that their coding gets better That's my OT content for the thread...Don't worry, I'll be targeting other threads Edited March 12, 2018 by Mclaneinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Does the last set of comments mean some need to pray that their coding gets better Nope, in short it means "less talking, more coding", or "code speaks louder than words" (unless it's comments in the code). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 SCR is awesome on XL. Congratulations to Atari authors ! And yeah, not to forget 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 That's my OT content for the thread...Don't worry, I'll be targeting other threads "OT"... that means Old Timer, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 And yeah, not to forget pingvin koder code or shut up.jpg Damn, that's EXACTLY my current thoughts I've been working on using just the 8-bit coordinate system in my flatshader this last weekend, and 8-bit precision has got [obviously] substantial limitations. And while there are workaround for each of those limitations, they obviously cost additional performance, so at this moment I am not sure that the 8-bit transform/project codepath is even going to be significantly faster than the 16-bit (given the additional "fixer upper" code). Does the original SRC do this, or they went with 16-bit transform pipeline ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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