flashjazzcat Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) ...up the clock to 3.5 and the picture starts jumping around in game, faster the clock the more insanely jumpy it gets... Didn't get further than the opening menu (I have no aptitude for computer games), so didn't spot that. Edited March 2, 2018 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) I want to talk about how I feel regarding owning an Atari back in the day. While I had the Atari and loved what it could do, I had a bit of an inferiority complex. I think due to sheer numbers, hearing so many people say how great their Spectrums, Amstrads or C64s were, I felt that the Atari wasn't competing. This was "backed up" by the fact that all the fashionable games in the late 80s were not coming out for the Atari 8-bit. This was one such game. People told me that the Atari couldn't do it, the C64 had the graphics and the Spectrum had the clock speed. There were individual games that I used to pick out as being great on the Atari, but there were many more which were never released on the Atari 8-bit. Time has taught me something. I've seen Crownland. I've seen Space Harrier. I've seen Yoomp! and I've seen this game. They have all taught me something, the Atari CAN do it and can do it better than the others. My complaint though is that current podcasts that compare across different platforms only pick out officially released games. I KNOW that the Atari is amazing. Look at Stunt Car Racer here, what an absolutely amazing game. I remember struggling to play this on other platforms due to a low frame rate, but guess what, I find this frame rate quite playable. Look at what Sheddy did with Space Harrier, absolutely amazing. I am amazed that the Atari does this so darn well, I am very, very pleased. I think most Atari 8-bit owners/fans felt this way back in the 80's. I know I did. But I also knew back then the 8-bit could do it all as good or better, if given half a chance, as titles made for the Atari first, like the Lucasfilm games, Alternate Reality The City, Synapse greats like Encounter. I knew back then it was due to a small user base compared to other platforms, ad in rampant piracy and the few games we did get in the second half of the 80's were quick and careless ports much of the time. But the wait was worth it for all the SUPERIOR versions of the games being released for it now. And I don't give a damn about arguments like "well the C64 can do it in 64K and Atari needs extended memory"...so? "Or, development had no dead-lines so they can be better," true or not, I've now got the better version and that's all that matters. I'm glad I have a computer where the community DOES upgrade and support upgrades. Just proof my computer is superior because it is upgradeable. Have fun with your "superior" SID chip and extra sprites C64 fans, I'd rather have fun with my DUAL Pokey stereo upgrade. And yes, I'm aware there are other sound options besides SID for the C64 now too. I could go on and on with the different aspects. The Atari just happens to be superior in ways I prefer, and the C64 superior in ways that I don't care as much about, or not superior enough for me to care too much (like SID vs. POKEY argument). It fits like a glove for me. Even all the tricks we can use for more colorful graphics, I'm an artist, and for my kind of graphics, the Atari is the superior medium (like Rastaconverter Pictures and HIP/TIP modes). I really like the C64 too, and think it's great too, the next best thing to an 8-bit Atari. Now in the 16-bit world, I'll take an Amiga over ST any day of the week. But ST is great too, it's just a reverse of the C64 vs. 800/XL/XE arguments along company lines. Jay Miner's computer just win in both cases IMHO. Edited March 2, 2018 by Gunstar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0ger Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Guys. Let's not get into C64 vs. Atari debate here. Not because it's off-topic. This is C64 conversion after all. Comparisons are expected. But with conversion like this, it's just cruel to C64 owners. You have to understand. You have to support them, they are going through some hard times. It's not their fault their mom both them the thing 30 years ago instead of real computer. Edited March 2, 2018 by R0ger 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 What other games have been converted from the C64 by the community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 IK+ e.g. Yie are Kung Fu e.g. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 IK+ e.g. Still unfinished though... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Can Jaguar do blits that could quickly translate the graphics, e.g. like 2 bpp to 8 bpp? Why would you even want to translate 2bpp->8bpp ? What exactly would that get you ? Not following here. Since Jaguar supports 1/2/4/8/16/24 bpp, just choose the desired 2bpp when creating the framebuffer bitmap (on OP) and you're done. No need to translate anything. Given my recent tests of my flatshader on jag in 1536x200 at 4bpp and 8bpp, something like this (but obviously fully flatshaded) would certainly run at 60 fps at 2bpp, though. Kind-of definitive Atari StuntCar Racer experience 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Why would you even want to translate 2bpp->8bpp ? What exactly would that get you ? Not following here. Since Jaguar supports 1/2/4/8/16/24 bpp, just choose the desired 2bpp when creating the framebuffer bitmap (on OP) and you're done. No need to translate anything. Given my recent tests of my flatshader on jag in 1536x200 at 4bpp and 8bpp, something like this (but obviously fully flatshaded) would certainly run at 60 fps at 2bpp, though. Kind-of definitive Atari StuntCar Racer experience That sounds great! Of course you know CJ will have ported the ST version before we know it...watch the Jaguar forum... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Is it possible, this game plays better than the Amiga version ? As the game's framerate is fairly enough, the "movement" makes sense. So to the player it is a "floating" experience, racing the ramps ... and what a marvelous experience this is No blame to the game, but it could be even more interesting to use a double scanline mode with solid filled colors . That could kill any 16 bit version And, a side note: Even if the game is graphically blasting most 8 bit version to the desert , the most capable chip inside the Atari is POKEY. And, after my latest experiments, I'm not really sure any more, if SID is the more capable chip for music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Why translate packed 2 bpp to 8 bpp or other? As a cheap/nasty emulation method. Potentially could allow converting a game without need to redo the graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) I haven't got time to go down all those other conversations and diversions... This is one heck of a nice game... the more you play it the more you realize just how nice it is. What's not to like? If you want to help them take it to even higher levels, please do so in a nice kind sharing and respectful way. Shake it don't break it! Thanks for a top notch rendition. Respectfully, _The Road Warrior__ Edited March 2, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Why would you even want to translate 2bpp->8bpp ? What exactly would that get you ? Not following here. Since Jaguar supports 1/2/4/8/16/24 bpp, just choose the desired 2bpp when creating the framebuffer bitmap (on OP) and you're done. No need to translate anything. Given my recent tests of my flatshader on jag in 1536x200 at 4bpp and 8bpp, something like this (but obviously fully flatshaded) would certainly run at 60 fps at 2bpp, though. Kind-of definitive Atari StuntCar Racer experience Yes, all done. It's just magic. There's no planar to chunky required. Move along, Vladr knows all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Is it possible, this game plays better than the Amiga version ? As the game's framerate is fairly enough, the "movement" makes sense. So to the player it is a "floating" experience, racing the ramps ... and what a marvelous experience this is Clearly you never played the ST version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) I wanted to try this on my ATR8000, which is the only disk system I've ever owned for the Atari. Unfortunately, the ATR8000 doesn't support enhanced density, which means I was unable to use the supplied ATR. So, I formatted a disk to be dual sided (with MyDOS) to give me enough capacity, copied over the files, and then copied the 3 boot sectors. The game loads and seems to play but will there be issues later on? Encouraged by the above test I did the same thing with the 1.2MB drive with the same results. Thank you to everyone who worked on this game port! Edited March 3, 2018 by a8isa1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 That sounds great! Of course you know CJ will have ported the ST version before we know it...watch the Jaguar forum... Unlike the [usually ported] 2D games, that can be nicely and easily upgraded to locked 60 fps (courtesy of jag's Object Processor) from whatever framerate they had on ST, the 3D games wouldn't gain much, as jag's 68000 is just 13.3 MHz. Plus, the bitplanes have to be converted to chunky, so it's not exactly a straightforward port, compared to regular sprites of nice and binary-padded dimensions. Why translate packed 2 bpp to 8 bpp or other? As a cheap/nasty emulation method. Potentially could allow converting a game without need to redo the graphics. Initially I thought you were implying the Atari 800, when you said 2 bpp. But now it looks like you're perhaps suggesting the Atari ST -> jag ? I can only check YT vids, but it looks like ST's version of Stunt Car Racer is using 16 colors, e.g. 4-bit. Which could stay the same on jag just fine (though you still gotta do bitplanes -> chunky conversion). Nothing inherently wrong with flatshading. Matter of fact, flatshading ages best of all techniques (looks always clean, a stark contrast to early textured games) and is highly scalable to other resolutions. Perhaps the ST version is using Blitter (yes, I'm aware that the Blitter speed-up on ST rarely overweighed the set-up) ? In such case a speed-up would be much greater, as 68000 fills a scanline very slowly (compared to Blitter). Just like on Atari 800, you can actually physically see the 68000 doing the fill in the loop Though, if Blitter locks out 68000 from parallel execution of other code (while it's filling the scanline), the speed-up would actually be drastically reduced in such scenario (yet still somewhat faster than 68000 doing the scanline fill). I wouldn't really know, as on jag, I'm heavily using multithreading / parallel processing (68000, GPU, Blitter), so the moment I spin up the Blitter, I let GPU continue crunching other code, in parallel (from its 4 KB cache), thus there's no RAM access lock-out for the performance-critical stuff (it does lock out the 68000 thread, but that doesn't matter, as it's mostly a support / non-rendering code, so that's okay) during duration of the blit. On a slightly less serious note, it could be funny to watch how fast the GPU-based conversion of the 8-bit StuntCar Racer would run on jag, in the full 4 colors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) the 3D games wouldn't gain much, as jag's 68000 is just 13.3 MHz. So what. Besides, not much is not nothing. Edited March 3, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 So what. Besides, not much is not nothing.1. The impact of having StuntCar on A800 is far greater than having it on Jaguar 2. The amount of work involved in porting it to jaguar doesn't correspond very well with the final result Atari 800 having a running StuntCar is pretty darn cool 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Hard Drivin' (which is what SCR is a clone of anyway) would be a way more appropriate Jaguar conversion - though I've got NFI if any of the home versions are any good. Fairly demanding specs, Namco System 21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_System_21 2 x 12.8 MHz 68000s, a DSP for the 3D calculations, among other support chips. Even a 6809 @ 3 MHz to run the sound. Edited March 3, 2018 by Rybags 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Greater than perfect conversion guys.. Annoying question for all involved.. sorry to ask x) .. If this could be "easily" converted to use gr.7 like graphics (or the equivalent char mode), how much do you think that would improve the frame rate? I would hope for something near 12 fps.. like 1.5x faster. Regards! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladR Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hard Drivin' (which is what SCR is a clone of anyway) would be a way more appropriate Jaguar conversion - though I've got NFI if any of the home versions are any good. Fairly demanding specs, Namco System 21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_System_21 2 x 12.8 MHz 68000s, a DSP for the 3D calculations, among other support chips. Even a 6809 @ 3 MHz to run the sound. Thank you for the link! Those Polygonizer board games are amazing, but they had better, as the board has 4-5 riscs at 25 MHz on top of the two 68000+6809. So, it's out of the jaguar 's league, save for drastically bastardized visuals. Besides, I haven't really heard of Hard Driving Bitd (until few years ago) but StuntCar was as popular as, say, Doom. I'd go as far as saying that StuntCar is the NFS1 of Ataris, popularity-wise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Clearly you never played the ST version. I remember not liking the ST version by some irregular slowdowns in the FPS. The Amiga Version was generally a bit slower without those hickups. Seems, they had forgotton to use the Blitter in the AMIGA version. But it was more consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Greater than perfect conversion guys.. Annoying question for all involved.. sorry to ask x) .. If this could be "easily" converted to use gr.7 like graphics (or the equivalent char mode), how much do you think that would improve the frame rate? I would hope for something near 12 fps.. like 1.5x faster. Regards! A GR. 7 version could be twice as fast. Several workrounds as the character sorting for the sky, character mode cycle stealing, the irregular frame buffer, and so on, wouldn't be there. Just draw the lines. The car could be build on PMg for more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 HSC Cafe: http://atari.pl/hsc/hsc.php?i=1.200 "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) If this could be "easily" converted to use gr.7 like graphics (or the equivalent char mode), how much do you think that would improve the frame rate? I would hope for something near 12 fps.. like 1.5x faster. There is always hope. 1.5x is IMHO a bit optimistic. To use the "color-RAM-trick" you still have to go for the char mode with it's similar DMA profile and drawing to the char-cells wouldn't be much faster as the number is only reduced a little: To draw e.g. the horizon line the same amount of bytes have to be touched and all more horizontal lines (these are typical) wouldn't benefit that much. That said, screen clearing time (biggest performance eater) would be of course halved. (And to mention this: If equipped with more RAM, the C64 version could be faster of course, too. The 128k helped a lot to be able to LDA #0 STA SCREEN STA SCREEN+1 STA SCREEN+2 ... ) Please mind also that the engine block/wheels wouldn't be so nice then, as the lines of the track reach into this graphic. Edited March 3, 2018 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) File version for current HDD solutions (without xBios) would be great, too, even at the cost of not having HSC, loading-wait screen I also have the gut feeling, that even though I booted from SIO2SD with 3x ultraspeed, it switched to 1x SIO on the loading-screen, hmm... Most (not all) of current HDD solutions do also support ATR loading... Ah I see now that the xbios overrulez the PBI, so that it does not load from HD! That is indeed a pity. Edited March 3, 2018 by ProWizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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