Patterns in 5200 Pac-Man?

[jaybird3rd]

This started life as a status update, but I thought it would be more interesting (and more visible) if it was made into a topic.

I've been reading Ken Uston's 1982 book about the patterns and strategies of the original arcade Pac-Man, and it got me thinking: has anyone developed similar strategies for the Atari 5200 version, or for the Atari 800 version that it was based on? I tried the patterns in the book, but unsurprisingly, they don't map onto the 5200 version very well. Uston discusses strategies for several Pac-Man clones in his book, but I think the book was written too early to include the 5200 version.

I've always played Pac-Man and its sequels "free style," but I've been interested in finding a more systematic approach to improve my game. I'm just curious to know what strategies everyone here has learned, either from playing Pac-Man on the 5200 or from analyzing the code. The manual hints that patterns are possible ("Look for patterns in the maze. When you find one that works well, memorize it."), and it would surprise me greatly if nobody has bothered to find any after all this time. I know that several members here have produced derivative versions based on the original code, so hopefully they can share some insights about the enemy AI in particular.

Thanks in advance!

[+Cafeman]

1. I dont know. I've played 5200 a lot and it was never strictly patterns for me.

2. It also makes me wonder if 5200 / A8 Pac-Man Arcade has the coin op patterns?

[tep392]

2. It also makes me wonder if 5200 / A8 Pac-Man Arcade has the coin op patterns?

It uses the same movement logic for the ghosts/monsters, so strategy should be the same as you would use on the arcade version, but the patterns don't work because the maze geometry doesn't match the arcade version. It's shorter and has few dots. It should be possible to develop new patterns for it.

[hepcat]

5200 Pac-man patterns are probably possible, but I don’t see the point.

 

Maybe I’ve been spoiled by being able to play the arcade version of Pac-man at home for 15+ years via Mame, but 5200 Pac-man just isn’t that good a game. It looks fine for the time, and it is certainly better than the original 2600 version, but it still has serious problems. It is extremely difficult to control with the 5200's controllers, which will make any pattern you come up with very difficult to pull off consistently. Also, the game’s squashed screen makes everything move twice as fast horizontally as it does vertically. Because of this, turning quickly actually makes the monsters more likely to catch you even if you’re using a controller that responds accurately.

 

There’s also the infinite blue monster bug. The levels that are supposed to have no blue time (17 and 19+) instead feature energizers that last forever. Thus, even if you don’t agree with me on the quality of the game, why bother with patterns when you’ve got infinite energizers available for most boards?

[jaybird3rd]

It's very true that 5200 Pac-Man (like many of the home arcade ports from that time) is not arcade-perfect, but I think it and the others have a charm of their own just the same. The fact that it is different only makes it more of a challenge, since it calls for new strategies. Arcade Pac-Man is a very well-understood game, and others have already explored it more thoroughly than I ever could, whereas 5200 Pac-Man feels more like unexplored territory by comparison. Besides, I enjoy playing on original hardware much more than I would enjoy playing the arcade version in MAME.

The everlasting energizer bug is probably its most serious flaw, but fortunately, Bob DeCrescenzo provided a bug-fixed version years ago which corrects this and a few other bugs, while leaving the rest of the game intact. I'll probably upgrade my original cartridge to Bob's version for long-term play.

[bikeguychicago]

tep's Pac-Man Arcade is closer to the arcade aspect ratio and the number of dots. However, even he mentioned that arcade patterns won't work with that version.

[MyPawnsEatPpl]

There's one of those old How to Win At Video Games videos that you can find on Youtube that talks about some patterns for the 5200 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWRs6X3y310

 

You could probably find some successful patterns from the "WIlson Oyama" Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUfkqAMTloOkcv48q4dRHlg

[Charlie_]

5200 and the A8 versions are very different. The 5200 version is fun. The A8 version is not.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

5200 and the A8 versions are very different. The 5200 version is fun. The A8 version is not.

How so?

[jaybird3rd]

There's one of those old How to Win At Video Games videos that you can find on Youtube that talks about some patterns for the 5200 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWRs6X3y310

 

You could probably find some successful patterns from the "WIlson Oyama" Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUfkqAMTloOkcv48q4dRHlg

Thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to check them out.

 

5200 and the A8 versions are very different. The 5200 version is fun. The A8 version is not.

I'm interested in this, too. I was under the impression that the two versions were the same, except for the lack of intermissions in the A8 version.

[NE146]

Laughing at some of the replies here which kind of stray from the question, But the straight answer is NO. There are no patterns possible in 5200 Pac-man because the brown ghost is pretty random. I've known this since I was a kid.

 

This is easily verifiable any time on the 1st board by simply repeating the same moves from the start for some time, reset & repeat, seeing if the ghosts react the exact same way each and every time.. and I'll tell you they do not.

[tep392]

Even with the randomness, I've found you can still use the hiding spot to rest. Of course the pause button makes that trick irrelevant, but it's still fun that you can do it.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/268783-is-there-a-pac-man-5200-to-8bit-conversion/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3871184

[Charlie_]

How so?

 

The A8 version has less aggressive and slower moving ghosts. Specifically at the start of the game. If you compare the 5200 version with the A8 version you can tell right away.

Someone should convert the 5200 version to A8 so that system can have a good Atari Pac-man.

[NE146]

There are different 8-bit Pac-Mans. There's a number of posts about it here at Atariage.

 

For me one of the main things that some of the 8-bit version have over the 5200 is the better pacman munching sound.. i.e. more arcade 'waka waka waka" than 5200's higher pitched version.

 

e.g. Compare the eating sounds between:

to

Changing that sound would be a cool small hack to put into the 5200 version.. too bad I don't know how.

Edited April 8, 2018 by NE146

[tep392]

 

The A8 version has less aggressive and slower moving ghosts. Specifically at the start of the game. If you compare the 5200 version with the A8 version you can tell right away.

Someone should convert the 5200 version to A8 so that system can have a good Atari Pac-man.

Some fellow has already done that.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/268783-is-there-a-pac-man-5200-to-8bit-conversion/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3872212

[Falkentyne]

It uses the same movement logic for the ghosts/monsters, so strategy should be the same as you would use on the arcade version, but the patterns don't work because the maze geometry doesn't match the arcade version. It's shorter and has few dots. It should be possible to develop new patterns for it.

The game was absurdly easy (due to how less unpredictably the pink monster moved in certain positions relative to the player), as well as other behavior oddities, including more 'safe' zones where you could simply go AFK (the arcade version only had one or two, and it was not always reliable).

 

Although most are still recognizable, the strategy is completely different for some of the ghosts.

The only two that act like their arcade counterparts are Blinky and Sue (Clyde).

 

While pinky still tries to cut you off and will move in the direction you are moving if you are close to him (meaning, you can make him run away from you if you approach him closely at an intersection), certain tricks (or bugs) that are present in the arcade version will get you killed here. One example: when Pinky is moving north, approaching him from the right (moving left) on the arcade machine will have him keep moving up or left (forgot which). However on the 5200 version, he just comes right at you instead, if he can't turn left. This behavior was fixed in MS-Pac-Man, which is a better port, although it is still plagued with inconsistent slowdowns when gobbling pellets.

 

Also, Inky does not move anywhere near like his arcade counterpart does.

 

The Ms-Pacman version is more authentic. I still loved pac-man to death on the 5200, until I got the ms pacman version!

[tep392]

 

 

 

It uses the same movement logic for the ghosts/monsters, so strategy should be the same as you would use on the arcade version, but the patterns don't work because the maze geometry doesn't match the arcade version. It's shorter and has few dots. It should be possible to develop new patterns for it.

The game was absurdly easy (due to how less unpredictably the pink monster moved in certain positions relative to the player), as well as other behavior oddities, including more 'safe' zones where you could simply go AFK (the arcade version only had one or two, and it was not always reliable).

 

Although most are still recognizable, the strategy is completely different for some of the ghosts.

The only two that act like their arcade counterparts are Blinky and Sue (Clyde).

 

While pinky still tries to cut you off and will move in the direction you are moving if you are close to him (meaning, you can make him run away from you if you approach him closely at an intersection), certain tricks (or bugs) that are present in the arcade version will get you killed here. One example: when Pinky is moving north, approaching him from the right (moving left) on the arcade machine will have him keep moving up or left (forgot which). However on the 5200 version, he just comes right at you instead, if he can't turn left. This behavior was fixed in MS-Pac-Man, which is a better port, although it is still plagued with inconsistent slowdowns when gobbling pellets.

 

Also, Inky does not move anywhere near like his arcade counterpart does.

 

The Ms-Pacman version is more authentic. I still loved pac-man to death on the 5200, until I got the ms pacman version!

 

Do you know I was responding to a question about "Pac-man Arcade", my homebrew?

[Falkentyne]

Do you know I was responding to a question about "Pac-man Arcade", my homebrew?

 

Ah, nope, sorry I didn't

[tep392]

Ah, nope, sorry I didn't

No problem. If you not familiar with it, I took the Ms. Pac-man game and updated graphics and reprogrammed the AI to replicate the arcade version.

[Falkentyne]

If i weren't so burned out on emulators I would be jumping all over this. Is there a rom to download for your modification?

[tep392]

If i weren't so burned out on emulators I would be jumping all over this. Is there a rom to download for your modification?

There's an XEX and binary here. The binary only runs on the Atarimax 1mb cart.

 

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/196992-8bit-pac-man-arcade-final-version-accepting-orders/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2507336