lasscassidy Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Hey y'all! I'm currently in the process of writing an article detailing the history of the "Venetian Blinds" program for my website, and was curious if anyone wouldn't mind helping to fact-check some bits of information I'm looking to convey with it? Atari Compendium provides what is billed as a manual for Venetian Blinds, which is certainly more than a little suspect: Obviously, with the game never having an actual box copy or retail release of any sort, there's no reason why Activision would've bothered to mock up a manual for it. Furthermore, the production code listed on the last page (AG-004-03) corresponds to Fishing Derby, implying that release as the template for this spoof. All that being said, the included "Tips from David Crane" page is actually a decent little resource of information, and I'd love to track down a source on where those quotes were initially pulled from? In describing the actual "Venetian blinds" rendering technique, I try to provide a simple explanation to the effect of "it cuts out rows of horizontal pixels from alternating sprites in order to bypass the sprite limit." Is this a fair way of explaining it, or is it perhaps a bit too over-simple? Also, I use Video Chess as an example of the effect in action, but I'd like to know of any other titles that utilized the effect to a noticeable extent. A number of different sources seem to attribute a 1982 "release date" to the Venetian Blinds demo, but that strikes me as somewhat odd. With Atari seeming to having filed their suit against Activision at least two years earlier, and the venetian blinds technique being a major point of contention for them, I'd have to assume that the Venetian Blinds demo was probably produced fairly early in the course of the court hearings -- maybe as early as 1979, even. Is this 1982 release date simply chosen to correspond with the fact that it's at least known to predate Barnstorming (what with it using the same sunset and all), or is there some other story at play here? (The attached image is something like my attempt at a reconstruction of what the cover art for the title may have possibly looked like, based on the mock-up art provided in the early 2000s Activision Anthology releases.) Edited March 20, 2018 by lasscassidy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 This wasn't a game. There was no artwork for it. We already know everything there is to know about it. ...YOUR INSANE...!!!...get help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 This wasn't a game. There was no artwork for it. We already know everything there is to know about it. ...YOUR INSANE...!!!...get help! Thank you for the incredibly insightful reply. Really helped clear up all my questions! Look, I'm obviously aware that it's not a real "game," and by that very nature all the artwork for it is going to be fan-made or mock-up. But the fact of the matter is that there is a fascinating history to the production of the program, and it's not one that everybody actually knows. That's the point of my article: To give a history of how and why it came to be, and following up by accounting for how the game eventually made it to actual honest-to-god digital sale and distribution [through the Game Room service]. Also, not to be rude, but who are you to say that we know "everything there is to know about it?" There's always the chance that a day may come where a bunch of new information on it comes out, or maybe even some "prototype" version of it gets released. Unlikely, sure, but not outside the realm of possibility. I'd personally be fascinated to see such a development occur, as software like this is right in my wheelhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Thank you for the incredibly insightful reply. Really helped clear up all my questions! Look, I'm obviously aware that it's not a real "game," and by that very nature all the artwork for it is going to be fan-made or mock-up. But the fact of the matter is that there is a fascinating history to the production of the program, and it's not one that everybody actually knows. That's the point of my article: To give a history of how and why it came to be, and following up by accounting for how the game eventually made it to actual honest-to-god digital sale and distribution [through the Game Room service]. Also, not to be rude, but who are you to say that we know "everything there is to know about it?" There's always the chance that a day may come where a bunch of new information on it comes out, or maybe even some "prototype" version of it gets released. Unlikely, sure, but not outside the realm of possibility. I'd personally be fascinated to see such a development occur, as software like this is right in my wheelhouse. Supergun is just teasing you. Keep up the good work! The manual is a joke. Perhaps it's a good idea to find out when exactly this meeting between Crane and the lawyers happened. Edited March 21, 2018 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 So, hey, just to let you guys know: Pretty much every story available online as to why the Venetian Blinds cartridge was created is incorrect. When I finish up my article, it'll include the actual historical context of the demo, straight from David Crane's own mouth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Looking forward to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) I decided that April 1st would be an appropriate day for the article to go up! The Bad Game Hall of Fame Presents: "Venetian Blinds" Edited April 1, 2018 by lasscassidy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Excellent work.Thank you so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Yes, I will agree that more information is always appreciated & welcomed with regards to the history of our beloved 2600. And yes, I thank you as well. But I will say, for the record, that I much prefer the Matt story, wether inaccurate or not, because it has always been one of my favorite stories and because I have always told it to my guests when they visit & I plug in the cartridge while saying that classic line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I was simply going on the information I was given at the time (by Ken I think). I didnt have any access to the Activision programmers themselves so I had to trust what I was being told was accurate. Ill update my page with this corrected information (if thats alright with you that is). Looks like what I was told wasnt too far off, just garbled. Thanks for setting the record straight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 I was simply going on the information I was given at the time (by Ken I think). I didnt have any access to the Activision programmers themselves so I had to trust what I was being told was accurate. Ill update my page with this corrected information (if thats alright with you that is). Looks like what I was told wasnt too far off, just garbled. Thanks for setting the record straight. Yeah, absolutely feel free to update the page if you're inclined to! And I hope the article didn't come across as if I was like, making fun of you for providing the story you were told or anything along those lines: Just wanted to make sure the distinction in the article was made between the two different stories was all. I'll also go ahead and correct my own details in the article as to what your source was, so that side of the story can be made accurate as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Yeah, absolutely feel free to update the page if you're inclined to! And I hope the article didn't come across as if I was like, making fun of you for providing the story you were told or anything along those lines: Just wanted to make sure the distinction in the article was made between the two different stories was all. I'll also go ahead and correct my own details in the article as to what your source was, so that side of the story can be made accurate as well. Oh no, it didn't come across like that at all. Sometimes the information I'm given is incorrect or has inaccuracies in it (sometimes directly from the programmers mouth!), so I'm always on the look out for up to date and correct info. I was just saying that the info on my page wasn't a theory of mine (I generally mention it when that happens), it was information that was given to me from someone who had access to the Activision guys. Like I said, it wasn't too far off, just the details got garbled. As to my source, I *think* it was Ken who was the guy who worked with the programmers on the Acitivison compilations that came out. He posted a lot of info on here and gave me access to the roms when they released those prototypes on one of the packs. I don't remember his last name or if I even knew it. Al might have more info on that. The reason I say it was Ken is that I can't think of anyone else who would have had that knowledge that I talked to (like I said, I wasn't talking to the programmers themselves). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) Oh no, it didn't come across like that at all. Sometimes the information I'm given is incorrect or has inaccuracies in it (sometimes directly from the programmers mouth!), so I'm always on the look out for up to date and correct info. I was just saying that the info on my page wasn't a theory of mine (I generally mention it when that happens), it was information that was given to me from someone who had access to the Activision guys. Like I said, it wasn't too far off, just the details got garbled. As to my source, I *think* it was Ken who was the guy who worked with the programmers on the Acitivison compilations that came out. He posted a lot of info on here and gave me access to the roms when they released those prototypes on one of the packs. I don't remember his last name or if I even knew it. Al might have more info on that. The reason I say it was Ken is that I can't think of anyone else who would have had that knowledge that I talked to (like I said, I wasn't talking to the programmers themselves). Just for the sake of clarity: The Ken in question is here is Ken Siders, I presume? Edited April 2, 2018 by lasscassidy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Just for the sake of clarity: The Ken in question is here is Ken Siders, I presume? No. Activision Ken. Ken Love maybe: http://atariage.com/forums/user/197-klove/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 No. Activision Ken. Ken Love maybe: http://atariage.com/forums/user/197-klove/ Yeah, looking into his profile on MobyGames, he's credited with the role of producer for the Activision Anthology titles. All checks out to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockduck Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 This is really great; thank you for putting in the work on this bit of Atari/Activision history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Yeah, looking into his profile on MobyGames, he's credited with the role of producer for the Activision Anthology titles. All checks out to me! BTW: did you find any info on the release date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasscassidy Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 BTW: did you find any info on the release date? Judging from Crane's recounting that he privately showed the program at a CES event - probably after Activision's initial CES debut [wherein they showed off their launch lineup] - I'm going to guess that Venetian Blinds' unveiling would've taken place at some point in either 1980 or 81. It'd take tracking down a full list of CES events held in that era and which companies were in attendance, which I can certainly try to look into! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Judging from Crane's recounting that he privately showed the program at a CES event - probably after Activision's initial CES debut [wherein they showed off their launch lineup] - I'm going to guess that Venetian Blinds' unveiling would've taken place at some point in either 1980 or 81. It'd take tracking down a full list of CES events held in that era and which companies were in attendance, which I can certainly try to look into! If the sunset was used in Banstorming and Chopper Command, I would say 1981, instead of 1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) Judging from Crane's recounting that he privately showed the program at a CES event - probably after Activision's initial CES debut [wherein they showed off their launch lineup] - I'm going to guess that Venetian Blinds' unveiling would've taken place at some point in either 1980 or 81. It'd take tracking down a full list of CES events held in that era and which companies were in attendance, which I can certainly try to look into! The Atari vs Activision lawsuits started in around august 1980: https://books.google.nl/books?id=ZD4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&dq=atari+sews+activision&source=bl&ots=OtJzpWVgZM&sig=O0sHv7l3ucWmOUyGQogcpNioC_Y&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrlcCMopzaAhVKEVAKHWyGDmsQ6AEIVTAJ#v=onepage&q=atari%20sews%20activision&f=false and ended around december 1981: https://books.google.nl/books?id=ej0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=atari+sues+activision&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0sP-yqZzaAhXEIVAKHYxzDPs4ChDoAQhVMAY#v=onepage&q=atari%20sues%20activision&f=false Venetian Blinds demo being released in 1981 (with Barnstorming/Chopper Command sunset in mind) seems most likely. I think we can rule out 1982 as its release year. Edited April 2, 2018 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergun Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Matt, before you change the article on your site, or at least that part of it that has the famous line, is there any way you could save it or preserve it such as perhaps leaving it intact and explaining that for 15 years or so, this was what we thought or had been told. I just think your article, in its true & original form, is a part of history now, and must be preserved & remembered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I can see about mentioning something like "it was previously reported that..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangentg Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) [Edit: never mind] Edited May 26, 2018 by Tangentg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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