What do these DOS symbols mean?

[SS]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what the symbols "< >" mean in DOS when they are preceding and following a file name on a disk.

 

I am attempting to create a multi game ATR from some XEX files (renamed to EXE). I used the windows program "Atadim" to add the executable files to an empty ATR. When I load the disk, however, two of the games that I added load fine and four do not. The four that do not have the "< >" symbols surrounding them. I know that it's not the files themselves that are the problem because they work fine on my real machine via UNO Cart.

 

My question is - what do the "< >" represent, how can I get rid id them so that the games will load, and what am I doing wrong.

 

Thanks for any help.

Edited March 30, 2018 by SS

[Mclaneinc]

Post the disk SS, I always assumed those symbols represent a directory?

 

Not used DOS in a LONG time..

Edited March 30, 2018 by Mclaneinc

[+Nezgar]

Using DOS 2.5, <> around filenames on enhanced density disks designate files that are on sectors beyond sector 719, and will not be accessible when using DOS 2.0, and potentially other DOS's and utilities.

[+Stephen]

The < > characters indicate that this is an enhanced density (127kB) disk, and the files are above the 90kB space of a single density disk.

[SS]

This is my test disk. Mostly I just want to figure out how to make a multi-game disk out of XEX files and what I am doing wrong.

SYNAPSE TEST1.atr

[SS]

The < > characters indicate that this is an enhanced density (127kB) disk, and the files are above the 90kB space of a single density disk.

 

Oh ... so I need to create a new blank disk image?

[+Nezgar]

Maybe the particular game loader you're using doesn't support enhanced density. If you are particular to that loader and DOS 2, maybe a double density ATR with DOS 2 (2.0D?) will work better for you.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well, there are also programs (e.g. Speed Start Initializer, a gamedos) that do not like the < and > and DOS 2.5 filestatus of these files and therefore will refuse to load them. There are some utilities available to remove the < and > on DOS 2.5 medium/enhanced disks and change the status of these files to a normal DOS 2 filestatus. Think I have at least one utility from Happy Computer magazine in my collection that does this (written in TB XL)... if interested, let me know and I will search for it and create an ATR of it...

Edited March 30, 2018 by CharlieChaplin

[ivop]

While we're at it, what does you nickname SS mean? To me, this letter combination has a very negative connotation.

Sorry to be off-topic, but this has bothered me ever since I noticed

[SS]

While we're at it, what does you nickname SS mean? To me, this letter combination has a very negative connotation.

Sorry to be off-topic, but this has bothered me ever since I noticed

 

My name is Shawn Smith. A girlfriend started calling me "SS" when I was a late teen and the nickname stuck.

[Roydea6]

 

Oh ... so I need to create a new blank disk image?

MyDos 4.5x will do this for you. When you create the atr use custom 2880 sectors 256 bps.

[SS]

The < > characters indicate that this is an enhanced density (127kB) disk, and the files are above the 90kB space of a single density disk.

 

 

Using DOS 2.5, <> around filenames on enhanced density disks designate files that are on sectors beyond sector 719, and will not be accessible when using DOS 2.0, and potentially other DOS's and utilities.

 

Thank you. This helped to steer me towards the right direction.

[SS]

I almost gave up in complete frustration but decided to see what happened if I used some alternate files instead. Apparently not all EXEs are created equally in the eyes of the "Atadim" program. The program will write the files to the ATRs just fine but the Atari is not always able to run those files within the disk image, even if they work fine as raw XEXs via UNO or SIO2SD. It is a bit of trial and error but I am starting to make some headway.

[ivop]

 

My name is Shawn Smith. A girlfriend started calling me "SS" when I was a late teen and the nickname stuck.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps I should see to be less sensitive about such things (i.e. the SS combination of letters), I don't know. I just wondered why one would choose such a name.

 

Anyway, I'll read your nickname as Shawn Smith from now on

[SS]

There are some utilities available to remove the < and > on DOS 2.5 medium/enhanced disks and change the status of these files to a normal DOS 2 filestatus. Think I have at least one utility from Happy Computer magazine in my collection that does this (written in TB XL)... if interested, let me know and I will search for it and create an ATR of it...

This would probably be very helpful, thanks. It would be great if you could post the ATR here.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

I always thought the enhanced sector symbols were added by the DOS (2.5) itself on the fly rather then they're are attributes on the actual disk.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Okay,

 

downloaded the whole Happy Computer disk-image again with DIR-Converter on it. The program requires TB XL but it was not on the disk and errm, the program used german language...

 

My changes:

- added TB XL to the disk image as an Autorun.SYS

- translated the german onscreen text into english

- saved the new/english program as DIRECONV.TUR

(the original german program is still on the disk as DIRCONV.TUR)

 

Note: When TB XL has loaded, use LOAD"D:DIRECONV.TUR" to load the program. There is a "J/N" question (german Ja/Nein which equals Yes/No) in the program, I did not change this into Y/N, since the program looks for the keycode of J and N. So, if you want to change the text into Y/N you should also change the keycode accordingly (and errm, as a non-programmer I do not know the keycode for "Y" right now, thats why I did not change it, should be easy for you to do)...

 

At the start the program asks if you want to Convert or Reconvert, where convert means removing the < and > symbols and maybe (?) also changing the status of the file, while reconvert means the < and > symbols are added again.

DirConv.zip

Edited March 31, 2018 by CharlieChaplin

[Fox-1 / mnx]

(and errm, as a non-programmer I do not know the keycode for "Y" right now, thats why I did not change it, should be easy for you to do)...

 

For future reference :-)

 

GET K:? K

 

Pressing a key prints it's value

N = 78

Y = 89

J = 74

[+Nezgar]

I always thought the enhanced sector symbols were added by the DOS (2.5) itself on the fly rather then they're are attributes on the actual disk.

 

Yes, the symbols would be added on the fly by DOS (they are not actually on the disk directory sectors). Programs that don't read the directory sectors directly, can use an IOCB OPEN to have DOS supply a pre-formatted directory as text. Since DOS 2.5 provides the <> characters in the pre-formatted directory, thats where programs may be tripped up when they are not expected.

 

ie, example code from the SpartaDOS X Manual: (should work with any DOS ) (source http://www.celebritybase.net/atari8/SpartaDOSXManual/Open_File_Programming_pp_06-02.shtml )

 

    10 DIM ENTRY$(40)
    20 OPEN #1,6,128,"D1:*.*"
    30 REM The TRAP will cause the program to jump to line
    40 REM 80 when the end of the directory is reached.
    50 TRAP 80
    60 INPUT #1,ENTRY$:PRINT ENTRY$
    70 GOTO 60
    80 CLOSE #1

[SS]

Okay,

 

downloaded the whole Happy Computer disk-image again with DIR-Converter on it. The program requires TB XL but it was not on the disk and errm, the program used german language...

 

My changes:

- added TB XL to the disk image as an Autorun.SYS

- translated the german onscreen text into english

- saved the new/english program as DIRECONV.TUR

(the original german program is still on the disk as DIRCONV.TUR)

 

Note: When TB XL has loaded, use LOAD"D:DIRECONV.TUR" to load the program. There is a "J/N" question (german Ja/Nein which equals Yes/No) in the program, I did not change this into Y/N, since the program looks for the keycode of J and N. So, if you want to change the text into Y/N you should also change the keycode accordingly (and errm, as a non-programmer I do not know the keycode for "Y" right now, thats why I did not change it, should be easy for you to do)...

 

At the start the program asks if you want to Convert or Reconvert, where convert means removing the < and > symbols and maybe (?) also changing the status of the file, while reconvert means the < and > symbols are added again.

 

Thank you! That worked like a charm. Not only did it remove the "< >" symbols but it also made the entire disk contents viewable in DOS 2.0 as well, which they were not before. Much obliged.

[1050]

Yes, the symbols would be added on the fly by DOS (they are not actually on the disk directory sectors).

Beg to differ but they are, they are just not coded as

atascii such that you can see them with a sector

editor for example. But the first byte of the directory

file entry has a flag change to indicate that this

file is special. It's the flag read that can't be

made sense of by other DOS and so the file disappears

from a directory listing. Fixing the flag, shows the

file, but that doesn't enable the DOS to access the

second VTOC sector nor enable higher than 720 sector

access. You may have just opened the disk for

catastrophic damage to it's file structure by allowing

any old DOS to see those files above 720.

 

Any write might be the end for that disk. Reads might

be safe, but there already is DOS 2.5 that has no

issues at all with full access so why not do it that

way instead? I'm pretty sure MyDOS will fail to read

those files correctly, can't say as to others since

I'm not so fluent in those. The issue is untold bugs

with unknown consequences in code we don't know for

a fact will work. Not all DOS will work with those

'corrected' disks. That makes it a crap shoot when

there was no real need to go there.

 

It may be that it LOOKS good to go but at any moment

at any sector, the file being copied gets cut short.

And no clue if it's a possibility or not and how

many DOS you gonna test read only functionality with?

 

I went thru the pain of moving my entire library from

DOS 2.5 extended file system to MyDOS SD disks - it was

agony. But there is no real shortcut that can be trusted

to be faithful to the original file stored above sector 720.

 

It might be that I'm just skittish about the entire

deal, but I've dealt with ruined file structure disks

before and the nightmare is real. Especially on a disk

that contains something valuable. I'll consider it as

a neat gimmick, but I wouldn't trust that modified

disk any further than a used car salesman.

[Mathy]

Hello guys

 

Problem with DOS 2.5 is that Atari used a quick and very dirty way to create a second VTOC. In MyDOS, the first VTOC (the only one in SD) represents the first 720 sectors and the second VTOC represents the sectors 721 until 1040. In DOS 2.5, the first VTOC represents the first 720 sectors and the second VTOC represents sector 320 until 1040. So there is a huge overlap in the VTOC's on an ED/MD DOS 2.5 disk.

 

I might be slightly wrong about the exact numbers, but there IS a huge overlap.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[Rybags]

The reasoning for the second VTOC sector is to keep the extra files hidden from Dos 2.0.

The reasoning to repeat early sectors (48-719 from my info) - probably to minimize the need to read both VTOC sectors during disk accesses.

 

Dos 2.5 doesn't set bit 6 on the directory entries, so files spanning the extra space appear to DOS 2.0 as being open for output and not closed, which causes them to be invisible and the used sectors not available.

 

The method they chose - really, for compatability reasons it was a good choice. Though putting the second VTOC sector right near the end of the disk wasn't real smart, would have been better to put it at sector 721.

 

In theory there's no reason Dos 2.0 could read any file that spans the extra space though the way the data structures and logic of the DOSes work, there's not really an easy way to give read acccess but not allow creation or deleting files that span the extra space.