_The Doctor__ Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) April 1st is April fools day... is it real or joke? We'd have thought they would have chose April second, the beginning, or end of a business week.. Crazy times. Stay clean, stay safe, stay healthy... and above all stay happy! Edited March 30, 2020 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: April 1st is April fools day... is it real or joke? Unfortunately this isn´t a joke. You must use Google translator, scroll down to "USA" DHL/Deutsche Post limitations to several countries (german text) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Just trying to add some levity and point out their choice of date :) I don't see how their choice to add such restrictions help small business persons, or even the people in general during this time. If ever a lowering of shipping was needed, it would be now to keep everyone supplied and connected... I mean, if they are worried about something... blast the card board boxes/containers with Ultra Violet light. I can wear gloves and clean what's inside. If the cure is worse than the disease... people will have no money and then you get lack of home, nutrition, and even more disease. So here's hoping this stuff is over soon! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: Just trying to add some levity and point out their choice of date I don't see how their choice to add such restrictions help small business persons, or even the people in general during this time. If ever a lowering of shipping was needed, it would be now to keep everyone supplied and connected... I mean, if they are worried about something... blast the card board boxes/containers with Ultra Violet light. I can wear gloves and clean what's inside. If the cure is worse than the disease... people will have no money and then you get lack of home, nutrition, and even more disease. So here's hoping this stuff is over soon! It has nothing to do with what's in the packages or transfer of disease. It's about capacity and border controls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) really because around here, amazon and other places have slowed down because workers are not coming in and are afraid of the virus, no hand sanitizer, no gloves, no masks provided by mr bezos... they had a couple test positive.. and are talking strikes... and in fact they are walking out as we type. reports of the same are following at other delivery services. So what do you think is the cause of diminished capacity? Edited March 30, 2020 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Hi, sorry for publishing this info in more than one thread. Normally I won´t do that, but in case of the special situation I hope it´s ok - from the past I know that several users watching only a few threads in general. Last night I got the 5.th order, so the "big parcel" will be possible. Shipping out will be done next Wednesday (April the 15.th) due to the easter holidays here. If anybody want to have something from my projects, it´s a good idea to count in now - I can´t estimate, when the next omnibus-order is possible. Shipping costs currently for each purchaser is 20 Euros than usually. If I got some more orders until Wednesday, shipping costs overall will decrease and I sent the overpaid money back. Stay healthy, Jurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Hi @tf_hh, I was trying to install a 512 KB SRAM Memory Expansion in a 600XL, but it didn't work. I tested again and again, but I couldn't find what's wrong. This is what I did: 600 XL, NTSC, PCB version 4.4 standard. As it's standard 4.4 for a 600XL, the chip SN74LS08N was moved upper-left, as Photo A. Then, when turning on the Atari: working ok. Then the PCB was installed: Photo B. Then cables were connected: Red cable to MMU pin 16, Black cable to MMU pin 6, and Yellow cable to SN74LS08N pin 9: Photo C. Then the Atari was turned on, and it starts properly, but it only shows 16kb of memory. If cable to pin 9 is disconnected, nothing special happens. Then the PCB ver. 4.4 was exchanged with a PCB version 4.2 and the same, only 16kb. So with an Ultimate Cart, I used the xex provided to see if it was something about enabling / disabling the memory: Enable 512kb Memory (Rambo).xex, Enable 256kb Memory (Compy-Shop).xex, Disable Memory Expansion.xex. But nothing. And after check and check, no idea why it's not working. Any idea what's wrong? Photo A Photo B Photo C 512_KB_SRAM_memory_expansion - v4.2.pdf 512KB_SRAM_Expansion_V4_4.pdf Edited April 13, 2020 by tane Deleted "Machine 1" (65XE) from post, there was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 @tane Machine 1: Green screen is often indicator of bad OS ROM or mad MMU. Can you try swapping these with a known good system? Machine 2: did you upgrade the base memory to 64K in the 600XL first? I see 4416 DRAMs still in your photo. The 512K expansion does not replace the onboard memory, so it sounds like you may have 16KB of base RAM + 512K extended RAM. There is an alternate version of the upgrade specifically for the 600XL that provides all 576KB of RAM, or you can perform the swap to 4464 DRAMs plus a few jumper wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Nezgar said: @tane Machine 1: Green screen is often indicator of bad OS ROM or mad MMU. Can you try swapping these with a known good system? Machine 2: did you upgrade the base memory to 64K in the 600XL first? I see 4416 DRAMs still in your photo. The 512K expansion does not replace the onboard memory, so it sounds like you may have 16KB of base RAM + 512K extended RAM. There is an alternate version of the upgrade specifically for the 600XL that provides all 576KB of RAM, or you can perform the swap to 4464 DRAMs plus a few jumper wires. Thanks. I edited the previous post. In the middle, for Machine 1 (65XE) I realized a mistake in my installation. For some reason, there are differences among version 4.2 and 4.4 (I was installing a PCB 4.2 at the same time of a 4.4). For 600XL (Machine 2): It has never been upgraded to 64K: those TMS4416-15NL are original (it's a second hand machine). The manual PCB ver. 4.4 says: Standard: For 600XL: It says that both PCB versions work technically for all Atari XL/XE, just a form factor difference. But now I see in the title of the 600XL version: "64 KB base/main & 512 KB..." Does it mean that the standard version does not provide the 64KB base ? Mmmmm.... It seems that not. I was used with version 4.2 and 4.3 that were technically the same for all machines, but 4.4 is different with 600XL. There should be a changelog in the manual. 576KB_SRAM_600XL.pdf 512KB_SRAM_Expansion_V4_4.pdf Edited April 13, 2020 by tane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, tane said: Does it mean that the standard version does not provide the 64KB base ? Yes, that is correct. Upgrading the 600XL base/main RAM from 16 to 64K is simple though, here's a couple links to point you in the right direction: http://www.mathyvannisselroy.nl/xl600k64.htm https://atariage.com/forums/topic/183694-600xl-64k-upgrade-pictures/ But this is a nice 1-stop-shop picture: 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Wow, at least I have shown that the standard version still fits under the shield in a 600XL (after a maniac work BTW). Edited April 13, 2020 by tane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeocomp Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, tane said: Wow, at least I have shown that the standard version still fits under the shield in a 600XL (after a maniac work BTW). That is info I was looking for:-) What specific work btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 hours ago, tane said: Does it mean that the standard version does not provide the 64KB base ? Mmmmm.... It seems that not. I was used with version 4.2 and 4.3 that were technically the same for all machines, but 4.4 is different with 600XL. There should be a changelog in the manual. I think, all is clarified now? Ok, until now everybody has understand the difference between these both solutions. But, I´m happy to get any corrections or hints how to make it clearer. So feel free to write your suggestion here or sent and EMail, and I will update the manuals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, tf_hh said: But, I´m happy to get any corrections or hints how to make it clearer. So feel free to write your suggestion here or sent and EMail, and I will update the manuals. Fortunately, I think there isn't a technical mistake (I just wanted to install a version with 25% off (31-23)/31 ? ). Just to clarify in the manual that there is a difference from version 4.4 regarding previous versions, beyond just a physical shape, some users may be in knowledge of previous versions, 4.2 or 4.3, and think that it was just a cosmetic change. Now the "standard" version works with at least 64kb already installed (for example 600XL with 16kb needs to be upgraded to 64kb before). And the 600XL PCB version works with machines with 16kb or 64kb already installed. So in my case remains to do the upgrade from 16kb to 64kb. 8 hours ago, archeocomp said: That is info I was looking for:-) What specific work btw? If you see Photo A from post 157, the chip SN74LS08N was removed from it's original place. It allows the standard PCB be installed under the shield. Then of course the chip must be connected somehow, that's why there are 2 ribbon cables doing that. Edited April 13, 2020 by tane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, tane said: Fortunately, I think there isn't a technical mistake (I just wanted to install a version with 25% off (31-23)/31 ? ). Just to clarify in the manual that there is a difference from version 4.4 regarding previous versions, beyond just a physical shape, some users may be in knowledge of previous versions, 4.2 or 4.3, and think that it was just a cosmetic change. Now the "standard" version works with at least 64kb already installed (for example 600XL with 16kb needs to be upgraded to 64kb before). And the 600XL PCB version works with machines with 16kb or 64kb already installed. So in my case remains to do the upgrade from 16kb to 64kb. None of the 512 KB SRAM expansions from will serve the 64 KB main memory. I don´t really understand the complaint nor the comment. ?♀️ 2 hours ago, tane said: If you see Photo A from post 157, the chip SN74LS08N was removed from it's original place. It allows the standard PCB be installed under the shield. Then of course the chip must be connected somehow, that's why there are 2 ribbon cables doing that. I don´t want to blame it, but this kind of installations are very prone to have timing issues. If you ever detect any problems with the expanded memory or system itself, you should remove this installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, tf_hh said: None of the 512 KB SRAM expansions from will serve the 64 KB main memory. I don´t really understand the complaint nor the comment. The questions to be addressed are (to be filled properly): Table 1: Technically works for: PCB | ... | 4.2 | 4.3 | 4.4 standard | 4.4 600 XL | -------------------|---------|--------|--------|----------------|--------------| 400 | Y/N | | | | | 800 | | | | | | 600XL (16Kb) | | Y | Y | N | Y | 600XL (64Kb) | | Y | Y | Y | Y | 800XL | | Y | Y | Y | Y | 1200XL | | Y | Y | Y | Y | 65XE | | Y | Y | Y | Y | 130XE | | Y | Y | Y | Y | Table 2: Physically fits for: PCB | ... | 4.2 | 4.3 | 4.4 standard | 4.4 600 XL | -------------------|---------|--------|--------|----------------|--------------| 400 | Y/N | | | | | 800 | | | | | | 600XL (16Kb) | | N | N | N | Y | 600XL (64Kb) | | N | N | N | Y | 800XL | | Y | Y | Y | N | 1200XL | | Y | Y | Y | N | 65XE | | Y | Y | Y | N | 130XE | | Y | Y | Y | N | 1 hour ago, tf_hh said: I don´t want to blame it, but this kind of installations are very prone to have timing issues. If you ever detect any problems with the expanded memory or system itself, you should remove this installation. It worked properly, and no doubt it'll require more testing. I don't have other upgrades, but there are some full of ribbons that seems to work. Edited April 13, 2020 by tane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, tane said: I don't have an Ultimate 1MB that is full of ribbons, but it seems to work. U1MB doesn't require the 74LS08 to be moved and connected via wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: U1MB doesn't require the 74LS08 to be moved and connected via wires. BTW, I love the British values in my Londoner years time ago. Any technical advice about the 74LS08 in special? What's the difference in terms of current, coupling, in comparison with ribbons to other chips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, tane said: Any technical advice about the 74LS08 in special? There are many with more technical knowledge than I (tf_hh, for one), but I would think that moving the source of the system's buffered Phi2 signal and connecting it with a lot of tape-insulated wires would be at least one way to create potential problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: There are many with more technical knowledge than I (tf_hh, for one), but I would think that moving the source of the system's buffered Phi2 signal and connecting it with a lot of tape-insulated wires would be at least one way to create potential problems. Good answer. My experiment shouldn't be replicated as there is a better solution with a special version for the 600XL, done by tf_hh. Edited April 13, 2020 by tane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) I think an easier solution might have been to simply remove the socket from under 74LS08 and solder the chip directly to the board. I had to do this with a multiplexer on an 800XL recently in order to fit a Sophia DVI board in the GTIA socket. Edited April 13, 2020 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Yep. When I was working on that, I thought that an unique board with a socket in the exact position of the 74LS08, to be filled only for the 600XL, would be a solution for all machines, assuming it fits for all. I haven't tested, but in order to fit several upgrades in XE systems on Antic, Gtia at the same time, I was thinking on extensions like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969920693.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: I think an easier solution might have been to simply remove the socket from under 74LS08 and solder the chip directly to the board. Or use super low profile socket strips, like this.. I have some but have not put them to use yet. While at it, you could consider replacing the 74LS08 with a 74HC08 or 74AC08, especially if it's going to get soldered to the PCB... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Nezgar said: Or use super low profile socket strips, like this.. I have some but have not put them to use yet. Those are good. But difficult to find, and also at good price (for a strip of plastic by weight it's likely more expensive than the gold). 3 hours ago, Nezgar said: While at it, you could consider replacing the 74LS08 with a 74HC08 or 74AC08, especially if it's going to get soldered to the PCB... In English: LS: 5V only (4.75-5.25V) HC, AC: can use wide supply voltage range (2.0-6.0V) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tane Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) Thanks everyone for your help. Finally the 600XL worked with expanded memory, previously upgraded to 64kb. But I have a behavior that is not clearly stated in the manual: there is a trick, because the memory must be enabled with the xex every time the Atari is turned on (and every time such xex is executed the system freezes). Such procedure is not documented in the PDF. I did some tests with Pang and Bomb Jack (320kb), turning on the Atari and immediately executing such games. Both don't work. It must be enabled the memory before, with the xex, and after that the games work. Manual: The problem is the reset required in the middle, because the xex freezes the system. Regarding the Ultimate Cart, sometimes when pressing its button, and then the Atari Reset button, after that the card is not recognized. Sometimes happens very frequent and it's required to turn off and on the Atari. But if the expanded memory was enabled before, the configuration is lost when turning off the Atari. So it's impossible to use the memory. @tf_hh Is there a solution for this? Meaning something like a xex for enabling the memory that generates an auto reset of the system at the end, in order to avoid the behavior of the SD card of the cart. Edited April 14, 2020 by tane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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