Top Games You'd Like to Have for Atari 8-Bits

[+MrFish]

"However, the bottom line is that 3 in 1 has lived up to be a solid text-based football simulation. Granted, it does not currently incorporate every single

player on the field. Namely, does not include offensive linemen and individual blocking ratings. What 3 in 1 does include however, is every skill player rated

(rb, te, wr, qb, kr, pr, k, p, etc) and then have all players with sacks and interceptions and we used overall team ratings to account for the effectiveness

of the offensive and defensive lines."

 

Thanks, I was already aware of most of these facts, based on reading the review from Analog magazine, and by having a look into the data files myself.

 

 

"But to me, the minimal number of individual ratings, and complete lack of subjective ratings, is the area in which 3 in 1 loses some of its

appeal. For example, IIRC a running back is rated in exactly four categories: number of carries, yards per carry, number of receptions,

and yards per reception. In a short-yardage situation, it makes more sense to put in a Barry Sanders than a John Riggins, since the game

doesn't evaluate whether or not a player always gets 3-4 yards, or will lose three and then break off a forty-yard run."

 

Yes, this is a particular shortcoming of using a strictly average-based model. Shannon (the LHF rep) replied that they were adding a feature (common to other sims) where backs would have an "inside", "outside", or "both" rating. To me, this should already be partly addressed if a player is designated as a fullback (Riggins), and thus be weighted for selection in short yardage situations. Obviously the LHF engine doesn't do this either, though.

 

The poster further went on to suggest that standard deviation could be used to account for the type of runner Sanders was (it would account for Riggins too, of course). It's a good suggestion idealistically, but the problem would be obtaining the necessary data for all players (what were the lengths of all their individual attempts, or at least some reasonable generalization of them), adding it, and programming the engine to take it into account.

 

 

here's a couple of the posts i found in this old Google Discussion:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.sports/FMq7uEyn91o

 

I read some of the thread. Good information, seeing dialogue directly with someone from LHG. I'll read more of it later.

 

 

There were a couple of points about accuracy as well, but am struggling to find them

 

I'd appreciate if you can come up with something specific. There's a big difference between the quality of the model/engine and incorrect or inaccurate ratings for players.

 

It's obvious, reading through the thread, that most people feel that LHF uses accurate ratings and a solid game engine. Even the guy pointing out the problem with accurately representing Barry Sanders running style admitted this to the LHF rep:

 

>So, in closing, the need is definitely there to "expand" the football game. I

>assume you would be in agreement with me though that the game engine and

>statistical model itself is right on?

Oh, absolutely. The trick is keeping it that way when you "expand"

the game

Edited March 24, 2019 by MrFish

[Kyle22]

If you go by stats, then the Steelers should be very much represented in this game.

[+MrFish]

I played a full game (first time) of LHF for the C64 tonight.

 

Some information about the C64 version -- and some info that will hold true for any version.

 

First of all, the C64 version current teams disk is from 1989. I had a look at the Apple II version, and its current teams are from 1985. This turns out to be a good thing; because we essentially have full current teams disks for 2 separate years. Being that it's the same base program, we should be able to use them both. [Note: That the review in Analog, for the Atari version, was using teams from 1986. So, if that ever turns up, we'd have data for 3 years available.]

 

There are some differences in the way the data is stored on disk: the Apple II version uses a single file on disk, which contains all teams together. The C64 version uses files with 3 teams per file. So, to use the Apple data file with the C64, some reformatting would be necessary. It wouldn't be difficult in general, but possibly a little time consuming considering how many teams are on the current teams disk (222 on the C64 version). It'd be considerably easier to create a version of the C64 data for use with the Apple version.

 

I figured out pretty easily where all the NFL teams are and what numbers need to be used to select them. They're in alphabetical order by team name -- not by location. So, we end up with:

 

168 Bears, Chicago

169 Bengals, Cincinnati

170 Bills, Buffalo

171 Broncos, Denver

172 Browns, Cleveland

173 Buccaneers, Tampa Bay

174 Cardinals, Phoenix

175 Chargers, San Diego

176 Chiefs, Kansas City

177 Colts, Indianapolis

178 Cowboys, Dallas

179 Dolphins, Miami

180 Eagles, Philadelphia

181 Falcons, Atlanta

182 Forty Niners, San Francisco

183 Giants, New York

184 Jets, New York

185 Lions, Detroit

186 Oilers, Houston

187 Packers, Green Bay

188 Partriots, New England

189 Raiders, Los Angeles

190 Rams, Los Angeles

191 Redskins, Washington

192 Saints, New Orleans

193 Seahawks, Seattle

194 Steelers, Pittsburgh

195 Vikings, Minnesota

I won't attempt any such list for the college teams, atm.

[Guest]

as regards the accuracy. i've spent hours going through the Yahoo group and can't find the posts - but I know I read one making comments about some older college stats being "off" and another comment saying similar. will have another look later - but, it's maybe not worth it when considered that the game is so highly respected by most.

 

as regards your team data list. wow! nice work.

am quite happy to compile others seasons data - if you wish. just say what format you require, which categories and subcategories.

[256 colors]

Whizball

Edited March 28, 2019 by 256 colors

[José Pereira]

Whizball

Wizball ...

[_The Doctor__]

On 3/20/2019 at 3:24 PM, MrFish said:

 

17 colors, but 7 of those are what they call "1/2 colors" -- since they are just additional luminances of the base hues in their areas. Those 1/2 colors add a lot to the display though; if all those 1/2 colors were just white, it wouldn't look nearly as colorful.

 

If I set each panel to a unique color, I could get the display up to 24 colors; but not likely practical for a good design.

 

Filling out the field a little here, and end zones with team colors.

 

did we ever get this ball rolling?

[Guest]

am thinking the Lance Haffner conversion would be easier to follow in its own thread?

[rensoup]

On 4/13/2018 at 11:48 PM, MrFish said:

Possible or not... here's the missiles added for the bullets and also

final changes that were done to the right side of the ship in the last

post.

 

 

On 4/26/2018 at 2:42 AM, MrFish said:

Another example of what masking can do for P/M's. Suddenly, single-color P/M's don't look too bad.

 

 

 

MrFish  pointed me to this thread, so I'm just passing by...

 

I must say that adding color0 outlines to PM is a pretty good idea... In theory with precompiled sprites, they would be very fast to display and not consume a lot of memory!

 

(I quoted the wrong 1942 post where it's not color0)

 

I'm amazed they didn't actually implement a software mask for QBert, it looks much much better. Maybe they used char mode?

[+MrFish]

I must say that adding color0 outlines to PM is a pretty good idea... In theory with precompiled sprites, they would be very fast to display and not consume a lot of memory!
 
I'm amazed they didn't actually implement a software mask for QBert, it looks much much better. Maybe they used char mode?

It is in char mode; needed for all the block colors.


Sent from my UL40 using Tapatalk

[256 colors]

If it's doable on the PLUS4 http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Uninvited would love too see it on the atari too

Edited September 17, 2019 by 256 colors

[+MrFish]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:30 PM, rensoup said:

I'm amazed they didn't actually implement a software mask for QBert, it looks much much better. Maybe they used char mode?

 

Still doable though, using char mode, of course. Just need to set up char-definition ram as screen ram -- with a new character set every three lines -- and write the masks as needed.

 

[ZeroPage]

R-Type

[BIGHMW]

Tempest, Castle Blast, Combat 2 - Advanced, Hangly-Man, Pac-Man Plus, and Haunted House II 3D.

 

All are currently only on the 5200.

[BIGHMW]

On 1/31/2021 at 6:05 PM, BIGHMW said:

Tempest, Castle Blast, Combat 2 - Advanced, Hangly-Man, Pac-Man Plus, and Haunted House II 3D.

 

All are currently only on the 5200.

OOPS! I almost forgot to mention Xari Arena (AtariAge version), the 1984 prototype version is still the only one available for the 8-bit.

[rdefabri]

On 1/31/2021 at 9:05 PM, BIGHMW said:

Tempest, Castle Blast, Combat 2 - Advanced, Hangly-Man, Pac-Man Plus, and Haunted House II 3D.

 

All are currently only on the 5200.

Wow - how hard would these be to convert given the 5200 and A8 are pretty much the same?

[TracMan]

Zx spectrum travel through time would be awesome.

[JagChris]

On 4/2/2018 at 7:18 PM, Mark loves Stella said:

It looks like there isn't much movement on this Phoenix port. But, these are some nice images if it ever comes to fruition.

 

https://ataritools.fr.gd/1-_-PHOENIX-PROJECT.htm

I'd up vote this.

 

An enhanced Oregon Trail. 

 

Movie Monsters for the C64. 

 

Raid on Bungling Bay as well. 

 

An improved Radar Rat Race.

[adam242]

deleted

Edited October 5, 2023 by adam242

[johannesmutlu]

Well i do like to see ,kirby’s adventure,pac land,supermariobros 1,2,3,castlevania 1 & 3 on the 7800 because am really curious how the 7800 could handle those extra sprites on screen as well as having a much higher colorpallet as opposed to the nes,will there be leess flicker & slowdown and will everything look slightly righer in color depth as opposed to the nes???

we could only speculate,

sure the audio will be definitely infirior unless we will implement a pokey chip inside each game and let the tai do serve as 1bit pcm in order to make those games sounding more closer to the nes,and since both the nes & A7800 are similar systems,it shouldn’t be all that hard to port over those games to it eventrough it will still require alot of work to do so off course,but still,,,

am just sooo curious at what could be squeezed out of the 7800 wich cannot be squeezed out of the nes.

 

[_The Doctor__]

um Atari 8 bit computer line

[+MrFish]

7 hours ago, johannesmutlu said:

Well i do like to see... on the 7800...

Sorry, but this aisle is for dynamite and other highly-explosive items. You want the next aisle over for socks and underwear.

 

[Beeblebrox]

Zak Mckraken and the alien mindbenders would be amazing.

 

Also a new Lemmings clone which pulls out all the stops graphically and builds on the excellent Tommingi and Brundles.

What with all the more recent homebrew releases which have really pushed the A8 further, I think we could really get closer to the Lemmings game.

So what we have seen with coders like Shanti77 and others, and work Mrfish has shown to show enhanced colourised games, I am sure we could see colourful DLI and PM enhanced graphics on smooth 2 way scrolling screens. Tommingi was close, especially nailing the classic Lemmings character animation. However I think getting loads more colours on screen is possible, especially with the backgrounds. One of the fun things with other platform Lemmings, aside the tried and tested classic Lemmings game engines, are the colourful graphics and animation.

 

[+MrFish]

21 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Zak Mckraken and the alien mindbenders would be amazing.

Some other people have suggested this one too, plus Maniac Mansion, and probably some other Lucas Arts games that didn't make it to the system.

 

21 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Also a new Lemmings clone which pulls out all the stops graphically and builds on the excellent Tommingi and Brundles.

I haven't seen much outcry for a better Lemmings; but I agree that something better than what we have might be possible. I'm not really a big fan of the game myself; it's too slow-paced for my taste (<F1> key in Altirra helps a lot).

 

Have you played the Christmas Lemmings/Lemmigs by Datri Software? It's a respectable version too, from what I recall.

 

[Beeblebrox]

3 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Some other people have suggested this one too, plus Maniac Mansion, and probably some other Lucas Arts games that didn't make it to the system.

 

I haven't seen much outcry for a better Lemmings; but I agree that something better than what we have might be possible. I'm not really a big fan of the game myself; it's too slow-paced for my taste (<F1> key in Altirra helps a lot).

 

Have you played the Christmas Lemmings/Lemmigs by Datri Software? It's a respectable version too, from what I recall.

 

True, Lemmings isn't for everyone. I have played all Lemmings clones on the A8. Brundles and Tommingi are by far the best IMHO. Brundles is great, although the character set based graphics and jerky block by block animation is the sticking point for me. It's not stopped me playing the hell out of the game over the year. So many levels. Mouse control is the only way to play it.

 

Tommingi was a great attempt. Animation spot on. Pity it was only 10 levels and in B&W, although you did a great thing the other year bringing the 5 colours into it with your hacks.

 

Thing is, there is so much scope for bringing out an amazing version of Lemmings as mentioned above. It's a pity - IMHO - we have 150+ versions/variations of Tetris on the A8. I know it's technically easier to code.